[1100D]

Originally Posted by nitishk

Another video of a drive out from Mr Roy's buddies facebook page,

Coincidentally, this video shows these cars cross the spot of the Accident. Very poor choice of Music for the class of vehicle though

[gkveda]

Originally Posted by r_nairtvm

RIP Mr. Shibaji Roy and Speedy recovery to the injured Girl!!!
I did not see any mention about the "safe design" or otherwise of our roads/fly overs/road barriers etc.

I appreciate the knowledge that you have on the structural designs. But, one thing, wanted to clarify. The max speed of the road is decided by the government based on the design, no. of vehicles on the road at any given point in time, no. of pedestrians on the road, etc etc. So, if someone has set the norm as say, 90 KMPH for a road and if the driver crosses the limit, how can we blame the designer of the road for bad design ?

It is GIVEN, that Indian Roads are not designed for 150 KMPH. So, if someone drives beyond the specified speed limit, it is at his own risk.

Secondly, based on my assumption, (I donot have data, but, wanted to make some rough assumption that are closer to the actual data)
1. This road has been there for more than 60-70 years.
2. Everyday, more than 10,000 vehicles travel on this road
3. At least 1% of them will travel at higher speed than the norm.
4. If this stretch of the road is not marked as "Accident Zone" in spite of all the above 3 points, that means there are no significant number of accidents on this spot earlier

With all this, I think we can conclude that the road is "SAFE" to drive at the specified speed. And it is very evident that the speed of the car was very high >150 KMPH.

So, definitely, we can conclude it is driver's irresponsibility that is root cause and not structural design of the road.

Nothing personal against you. But, since you have drawn the entire design diagram and putting the root cause on the design, I had to write this.

[cp171185]

Originally Posted by D33-PAC

A Ferrari on the roads of Calcutta. John Oliver would say, that's the problem !

As if no other cities have witnessed super car/car crash till date.

Your location is telling Hyderabad. To remind you, just a year back, Hyderabad had witnessed a nasty car crash. The car involved was Mercedes G63 AMG. So as per your view, "An AMG on the roads of Hyderabad, John Oliver would say that's the problem".?

Even in February this year, A Merc turned upside down, and caught fire while it went out of control and hit the median on the outer ring road of Hyderabad. And here your comment would have been, "A Merc on the roads of Hyderabad. John Oliver would say, that's the problem !"

Besides, the city of Hyderabad had seen many other accidents on expressway(ORR) or in city road as well. That's applicable to every cities I guess and not just to Calcutta

Though that's not the issue we are discussing here, but your comment amazed me how the accident can be linked with a city!!

[suhaas307]

Originally Posted by gkveda

It is GIVEN, that Indian Roads are not designed for 150 KMPH. So, if someone drives beyond the specified speed limit, it is at his own risk.

With all this, I think we can conclude that the road is "SAFE" to drive at the specified speed. And it is very evident that the speed of the car was very high >150 KMPH.

So, definitely, we can conclude it is driver's irresponsibility that is root cause and not structural design of the road.

Nothing personal against you. But, since you have drawn the entire design diagram and putting the root cause on the design, I had to write this.

Whilst I agree with your premise that the root cause of the accident is without doubt the driver, you cannot absolve the municipality for constructing sub-standard infrastructure and then say that breaching the speed limit is at the driver's risk and the municipality affixed a speed limit with the understanding that the infrastructure has its limitations.

World over, asides of course certain sections of the German Autobahn, speed limits are affixed and imposed. Speed limits vary based on factors that have nothing to do with the road being sub-standard or being unfit for speeds in excess of 60 mph / 100 km/h.

By affixing a low speed limit on account of poor infrastructure, you are attempting to cure a problem that ought to have been prevented in the first place.

[cp171185]

Firstly, I wish that the departed soul may rest in peace, my deep condolence to the friends & family and I pray to almighty to give power to the young girl, friends, family members to recover out of the incident.

Now coming to the discussion, at the outset, I am not at all supporting over-speeding, reckless driving, etc. Public roads, especially in India should be handled carefully and it is applicable to each one of the users including those jay-walkers.

I have carefully gone through each of the posts above and found the main discussion is about the cause of the accident, which is natural point of discussion that comes first . Mostly people are blaming over-speed of the car, some are blaming the truck driver, some are blaming the road design and many other reasons to blame for. I will refrain from commenting on the cause of the accident as unless some facts or data come out of the investigation, its very difficult for me to comment in this regard.

What amazes me is the aftermath. Accidents do happen, everywhere, either for the driver or for any other factors. Nobody deliberately does it to kill someone, its a mistake that pays heavy price, either the Ferrari driver, truck driver or the road design or collective factors. But what really make difference is the actions taken post accident.

1) Its evident from the news that, it was happened on a National Highway at around 10 O'clock in the morning when his friends were around. That means, somebody must have tried to call or called up the Highway Helplines.

2) Many sources said that Mr. Roy was alive close to an hour post crash. In fact I have seen a video in YouTube wherein it appears that, Mr. Roy was crying helplessly and he was moving his hands as well, asking for help. In fact, someone somewhere told he even spoke a few words as well. All that means, he was in full sense!

3) The recovery process what I have seen in many videos were looks like done by locals with their limited resources, whatever they had on that point of time.

4) In the entire recovery process no ambulance I could spot on these videos. May be ambulance had reached a bit late


If all these are true then it can be the fact that, no ambulance, no proper recovery management team with all equipments could reach the spot on time despite getting information about the accident. (or they were not reachable) If that's the harsh reality on a National Highway(NH) in morning time when a luxury car met with an accident (news spreads more when its a luxury car) then what happens to those poor souls met with accident on SHs or in a distant town or during night time?

Are we not paying Income tax, Road Tax, Toll tax & what not to get proper road & allied infrastructure? Then why at all we are witnessing these heart-wrenching videos where victims are crying/called for help or alive still died in the end? When at all authorities will wake up to implement such infrastructure across the field formations?

Its very easy to blame the driver for "over-speeding", "speeding more than 100 kmph" which are the first causes to come out from the authority, media, locals in each and every time irrespective of the reasons for accidents. But tell me one thing, had the car been an alto and crashed at 70kmph would it helped to change the aftermath scenes? Given the fact the alto is not superior built car like Ferrari, the wreck could have been same at 70 kmph right? On that case perhaps second reason would have come "Rash-Driving"!

[GTO]

Link to firsthand account of the car that was following the Ferrari - link.

And some good news:

Aashna Surana, the teenaged co-driver of the ill-fated Ferrari California T, is slowly getting better, although she is still on ventilation support. From Tuesday morning, she was put on a liquid diet.

“This is a significant improvement for us, especially as she has also been responding to calls from the family by opening her eyelids occasionally. Her condition is better than yesterday’s, and doctors have said she has been responding well to treatment. We are thankful to God and wish a speedy recovery for her,” said Atul Surana, her uncle.

[LoneRidder]

Originally Posted by gkveda

It is GIVEN, that Indian Roads are not designed for 150 KMPH. So, if someone drives beyond the specified speed limit, it is at his own risk.

But, since you have drawn the entire design diagram and putting the root cause on the design, I had to write this.

Sir, I don’t think most of us are aware how the vehicle was driven during the occurrence of this mishap.

See the picture, the story says it all. Such a poorly designed barrier. If there were no other accidents here earlier, people were lucky.

Forget highways and high speeds. Every stretch of our city, Bangalore, has poorly designed roads. There is no single grade separator here without accident marks on it. Either its too low for visibility, or no reflector or they suddenly appear from nowhere or they simple jump from a 100 feet road to 60 feet road. There is at least one mishap involving barrier every week if not every day.

I have personally, many times, sent letters to BBMP, BDA and traffic police on this without any response. Couple of years back even we as a group went on sticking reflectors on these grade separators.

I am in no way trying to justify the driver, probably a better designed barrier would have saved him. Even a speed of 60-80 in a normal car would end up with similar outcome.

[libranof1987]

Originally Posted by GTO

Link to firsthand account of the car that was following the Ferrari - link.

And some good news:

The Telegraph says this,

Ujjwal Raghani and another member of our convoy joined us. The four of us and other motorists and some local people opened the passenger-side seat of the Ferrari and pulled Aashna out.

I also called Parveen Agarwal, who was driving ahead of us, and told him to turn the cars around. We carried Aashna to my car and made her lie on the back seat. We tried to pull Shibajida out but realised that he was stuck badly.

We started driving towards Calcutta without wasting any time. I asked my friends to call CMRI hospital and tell them we were headed there.

The thought of calling an ambulance crossed my mind once as the back seat of my car did not have any restraining belts. But I realised that an ambulance could not reach the spot fast negotiating the long queue of vehicles.

I asked my friend to keep checking on her while I concentrated on driving. Forty minutes later we were at the emergency gate of CMRI.

TOI says this,

Aashna was taken out within a few minutes of the accident and taken to CMRI Hospital in a trauma care ambulance arranged by police.

Either way, looks like being taken to the hospital immediately after the accident seems to have given the girl at least a chance.

[KiloAlpha]

Here is my analysis of this very tragic accident, on the basis of personal experience.

Once upon a time, I was driving a fairly powerful hot hatch on a rainy day very late in the evening. It was the junction of the A1/M1 near Leeds (U.K.). I was overtaking a large 40T truck, when the truck decided to switch lanes. In order to avoid getting squished, I honked long and hard, accelerated as hard as I could, and shot ahead, thereby surviving to write this post.

Mr.Roy was driving a Ferrari California. It is very fast and very powerful. It can decelerate as rapidly as it can accelerate.
Fact is that the truck driver changed lanes quite suddenly, at random, for no particular reason, and without signalling. Question is - relative to the truck, where was the car when this lane change occurred?

If it was behind the truck, to the right and closing fast - slamming on the brakes in a straight line would have, at best have caused a minor shunt. If he was already along side the truck, depending on which part of the truck he was alongside, again, he could have avoided a major crash by either accelerating or braking hard.
My theory is that the driver was momentarily distracted when the truck changed lanes. If he spotted the truck almost on top of him in the last minute, he would have swerved to avoid an accident instinctively. It is really unfortunate that it had to happen where the retaining wall begins, and a rod was sticking out.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by gkveda

It is GIVEN, that Indian Roads are not designed for 150 KMPH. So, if someone drives beyond the specified speed limit, it is at his own risk.



So, definitely, we can conclude it is driver's irresponsibility that is root cause and not structural design of the road.

Nothing personal against you. But, since you have drawn the entire design diagram and putting the root cause on the design, I had to write this.

The accident may not be caused by the road, but the Fatality could have been prevented by better design. A pole sticking out can kill at 40kmph. Similar 50-60kmph accident happened in Delhi a few years back where the rod pierced the guys chest. Amazingly he survived.
Road design should always prioritize life saving. For example, on most freeways in the west, where you have dividers starting, water filled barrels are kept to act as both cushion as well as fire retardants just in case somebody collides

Originally Posted by LoneRidder

I have personally, many times, sent letters to BBMP, BDA and traffic police on this without any response. Couple of years back even we as a group went on sticking reflectors on these grade separators.

I am in no way trying to justify the driver, probably a better designed barrier would have saved him. Even a speed of 60-80 in a normal car would end up with similar outcome.

There are so many road in India with sharp poles and poor design where even a low speed crash can cause significant injury.

[RWD]

In my humble opinion, the poor infrastructure has to be blamed as well. As, in this particular crash, the poor parapet design appears to be the last straw that broke the donkey's back. One life could possibly have been saved, if that parapet edge was designed to deflect the vehicle away from it, instead of impaling an erring driver with a metal rod. And, that pipe sticking out is not just a risk at 130kmph, it's simply a very poor design, which could be fatally dangerous at even legal speeds.

Imagine a motorcyclist merrily riding a Hero Honda Passion, well under the speed limit, with a full face helmet on, when suddenly a dog decides to run across his path. The motorcyclist brakes for a split second, gets into a tank-slapper, and hits the same place as the Ferrari collided. Needless to say, that the outcome would be just as gory, if not more. It would be worth bearing in mind, that the motorcyclist did nothing wrong, and followed all the rules. Would we still not blame the infrastructure, and the nincompoops who design, pass, build, and, maintain such death traps?
Of course, It would be another matter, that the government department responsible for the ill-designed road, would never even go through a police investigation, or be blamed in the news reports.

I believe, that the infrastructure has to take into account, the fact that some people will overspeed, and some people will lose control of their vehicles, due to variety of reasons, which may or may not be their own doing. The infrastructure has to have a safe margin above and beyond, the speed limit, it is designed for. If planes and automobiles, or even home appliances, were designed to safely operate, only, upto and within, the intended usage limits, we'd be having several plane crashes every day, automobiles accidents by the dozens within our social circles, and apartments bursting like fireworks, on a daily basis. All of these things have margins and redundancies built-in, and so should the road infrastructure.

Bottom line - The infrastructure has to be fool proof! At some point or the other, we've all been in tight spots, due to our own foolishness or someone else's; it doesn't matter.

RIP the driver, and wishing a speedy recovery to the girl.

[arjab]

Without sounding prejudiced, the driver of the Ferrari could possibly still have been saved had he been recovered within the critical golden hour. As per media reports, the gentleman was writhing in agony for the better part of an hour in the mangled mess before he breathed his last.

This should be a wake up call to the state government to immediately set in motion the process to get the 108 ambulance service in the state of West Bengal. WB is yet to start 108 ambulance services on its arterial highways and major cities. Many may argue and say that we are speaking in the realms of conjecture and even intervention by 108 may not have been god enough to save the day, but at least, according to.my limited intellect , the gentleman would've stood a chance.

I have seen many horrific crashes in Tamil Nadu, the state which has the dubious distinction in India of having the most road fatalities, and one very reliable person had told me that had it not been for the rapid intervention of 108 ambulances in TN the fatalities may have been higher.

All I want to say is that the government should implement logical, long term methods to prevent or minimise such mishaps. This would entail a long term view and has to incorporate support services such as 108, having the correct road engineering, effective policing, driver training at the time of issuing driving licences and finally enforcement of speed limits.

Simply enforcing, let's say a 30kmph speed limit, and I'm sure that'll happen soon, on that particular stretch and then penalising everyone from a Bugatti to a motorised bathtub crossing that limit , and seizing their licences is not a solution to a much deeper problem.

[AbhiJ]

I was trying to search for academic interest and failed to find any NCAP rating or similar for Ferrari California. Is these supercars not tested or are my Google skills failing me?

[Stratosphere]

Originally Posted by AbhiJ

I was trying to search for academic interest and failed to find any NCAP rating or similar for Ferrari California. Is these supercars not tested or are my Google skills failing me?

I believe organisations like NCAP have to use their own funds to buy the cars they decide to test. Therefore, logically they only focus their limited resources on mass market cars rather than exotics which form a minute percentage of vehicles on the road.

[AbhiJ]

Originally Posted by Stratosphere

I believe organisations like NCAP have to use their own funds to buy the cars they decide to test. Therefore, logically they only focus their limited resources on mass market cars rather than exotics which form a minute percentage of vehicles on the road.

That makes a lot of sense, but then is it just an assumption that these vehicles are crash worthy? Just because they are made by Ferrari?

Isn't these a compulsory crash test requirement in Europe / USA before a car can be sold?