[dean5545]

Originally Posted by sameerg001

Okay, this one is for all those, who are questioning on reliability part, While picking up a 3 series over a fortuner.

Here's the picture...

Thanks for giving us a clearer picture.But please ensure that you go through the terms & conditions of the BSI,because I remember member bluebeem telling that the BSI ultimate is no more an all inclusive plan.They have revised the terms&conditions since February I guess.
And coming to the reliability of the beamer I think you are good to go.There are plenty of reports in this forum to support that claim.
I say go ahead with the F30..
Thanks.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by noopster

From your point of view, I get that Innova--> Fortuner is not a big upgrade and the cash outlay is high bordering on ridiculous, but what about peace of mind? Toyota is synonymous with reliability and you'll be hard pressed to find a Fortuner owner who is unhappy.

Originally Posted by sameerg001

The new german would just be for the brand exclusivity, for those drives to murthal, for team-bhp meets, for going on parties and all. For other purposes, his other car would do the duty. So, now that he's having 4 other very reliable cars in his garage, I don't think the reliability or go anywhere factor is not much important, as this car is not going to be used for that purpose.

And I don't even see this car munching much miles too, So with a 5 yr/ 1l kms BSI, I don't think that for 5 yrs, he have to worry for any other major cost.

Well the thought process right now has been well summarized by sameer. This car will be that weekend car and gradually with time may be used daily but mostly within the city only or short highway runs where I know that the surface will be fully tarmac. The BSI for 5 years takes care of all the servicing cost and any warranty issues right? Because I keep reading parts failing regularly on all the BMW ownership thread on the forum.

Originally Posted by Warwithwheels

Moreover reliability factor was the main reason for you to shy away from the XUV5OO. Now I don't see how a German luxury brand will be more reliable/ trouble free than a Mahindra XUV5OO.

the XUV was supposed to replace the Innova and would see a lot of abuse. In the current scheme of things the Innova will be retained. This car would then just become a fun to drive car in and around the city. And with BSI the reliability factor becomes little less important. I will still have the Innova, Altis and Sunny for those everyday rough drives.

[ToyotaFan]

Why don't you take a look at the recently launched Q3 sport. It's a good vehicle and covers most of the basics week with decent ground clearance for Indian roads and you get a space saver as well. It will also be somewhere around 25 lakhs ex showroom. The only downer is the manual transmission which depends on what you prefer. Living the Q life is what most luxury buyers in India are after these days. The diesel engine is good but the 32

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by ToyotaFan

Why don't you take a look at the recently launched Q3 sport. It's a good vehicle and covers most of the basics week with decent ground clearance for Indian roads and you get a space saver as well. It will also be somewhere around 25 lakhs ex showroom. The only downer is the manual transmission which depends on what you prefer. Living the Q life is what most luxury buyers in India are after these days.

Already saw it. It looked too good to to be true at 24.9L ex showroom but the deal breaker for me was:
1. No ACC. It comes with manual AC.
2. No trademark Audi DRLs.

Now the reason for buying these germans is to experience the brand and for these aspirational value. Raw power can also be enjoyed for much less in form of the Cruze etc. So buying a luxury car and not having ACC and those DRLs is not going to work for me.

[petrolveins]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Thanks for a pouring in with all your opinions guys. A small update from my side. We had almost decided upon the Fortuner although my father correctly pointed out that the seating comfort is much inferior to the Innova and that its priced atrociously at 27.4L OTR Delhi for the 4x4 variant. On the other hand even he is not very confident in M&M still and doesn't want to go for the XUV. So out of the blue he suggested that if we are spending 27L then why not consider this new car (that his friend suggested) from mercedes that is priced around 25L. I presumed it to be the A or B class but the idea of him finally acknowledging that possibility was enough to leave me grinning. Told him all about the 320d base model and how some members on the Forum have been able to get some sweet deals on it. Another car that has been playing on my mind since its launch was the Volvo V40. So currently we are going to go on a spree of checking out all the entry level offerings from the premium car makers and see if there is something that fits into our budget ( it will happen around Diwali when I am in Delhi next). If nothing comes close to it then it will the Fortuner. I am keeping my fingers crossed for BMW to offer us a good deal on the 320d base. So my apologies for my car buying process suddenly taking an all together different road but then.... dil to bacha hai ji!

Hi Mohit - good that you are spending the required research on the car and keeping all options open. My 2 cents here, particularly on "why not consider a Mercedes when it is costing the same as Fortuner": The Fortuner or Mercedes A/B class initial cost may be similar, but the total cost of ownership (TCO) on a long term basis is poles apart. Over the lifecycle, you may end up spending an amount equal to car purchase cost for Mercedes or similar brands (read somewhere, not experienced yet). So the TCO would be 50 lakhs for a Mercedes and may be around 35 lakhs for Toyota!! This is one perspective.

Another note is on peace of mind in terms of frequent service station visits etc, having to bother about even changing small parts which would take long time for replacement, costing an arm and a leg.

Having said all this, nothing can come close to the attention that a Mercedes A class gives on the road, owner's pride, neighbor's envy!!

All the best, keep us posted on your decision.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by petrolveins

Over the lifecycle, you may end up spending an amount equal to car purchase cost for Mercedes or similar brands (read somewhere, not experienced yet). So the TCO would be 50 lakhs for a Mercedes and may be around 35 lakhs for Toyota!! This is one perspective.

I think that is a little bit of exaggeration. But point taken and I know it. But the BSI takes care of your servicing cost for the first 5 years so BMW in that sense can give you some peace of mind. Post that I am sure there must be independent garages who are competent enough to service these cars in Delhi. And my budget right now includes the cost of BSI. If the car plus the BSI fits into it, only then we are going to go ahead.

Having said all this, nothing can come close to the attention that a Mercedes A class gives on the road, owner's pride, neighbor's envy!!

Very true. But my neighbour on one side has: Audi A4, Passat, Porcshe Cayenne, Jaguar XJR and a coming soon Ferrari...!
On the side is a BMW 3 series, Evoque and a Maserati GT!

I doubt they will be envious of my humble 320d

[ToyotaFan]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Already saw it. It looked too good to to be true at 24.9L ex showroom but the deal breaker for me was:
1. No ACC. It comes with manual AC.
2. No trademark Audi DRLs.

Now the reason for buying these germans is to experience the brand and for these aspirational value. Raw power can also be enjoyed for much less in form of the Cruze etc. So buying a luxury car and not having ACC and those DRLs is not going to work for me.

Leaving out the Audi Trademark DRL's is a big mistake by Audi. but that said even the base model of the 320d does not get you the BMW Signature corona rings. Another disturbing trend that am seeing in the last few months is that BMW from being #1 Luxury car manufacturer has gone done to #3 and its volumes are 50-60% of what they were an year ago! Considering Audi and Mercedes are still posting an increase. Any idea what can be the reason for this?

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by ToyotaFan

Leaving out the Audi Trademark DRL's is a big mistake by Audi. but that said even the base model of the 320d does not get you the BMW Signature corona rings.

The 320d base has the corona rings I guess. The latest brochure indicates the same although have to confirm this with the dealer.

[Gotham_City]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Very true. But my neighbour on one side has: Audi A4, Passat, Porcshe Cayenne, Jaguar XJR and a coming soon Ferrari...!
On the side is a BMW 3 series, Evoque and a Maserati GT!

I doubt they will be envious of my humble 320d

Whoa! You live in one hell of a area..something akin to Manhattan in NY and Cuffe Parade in Mumbai. Cars may not suffice for neighbor's envy! Possibly can try a top end Onida TV

BTW, BMW + BSI looks like the best bet, given your circumstances - my two cents!

[Akshay1234]

Originally Posted by ToyotaFan

Another disturbing trend that am seeing in the last few months is that BMW from being #1 Luxury car manufacturer has gone done to #3 and its volumes are 50-60% of what they were an year ago! Considering Audi and Mercedes are still posting an increase. Any idea what can be the reason for this?

Well for one, Audi has been marketing the hell out of itself. Sponsoring and promoting so many different things. Secondly they have been offering many different tyres of finance options which made the car seem much cheaper. And also offering big discounts on their cars.

Mercedes has been bringing in their new products pretty fast, and the newer products of theirs have been priced well too. They already had the brand value, and now they have stylish products too which the general public appreciates.

BMW had been messing up their specs, and getting pricing wrong. Also their marketing was not much. Frankly I think its going to be Mercedes>Audi>BMW in the sales charts. BMW still offers the best drivetrains, but the other 2 beat it in style.

[eq24]

Wow Mohit, quite the turn of events isn't it? I Dont blame you though when we bought the Fortuner in January the same happened to us too.
One thing I would humbly suggest is to keep a strict stop loss, simply put keep your upper budget ceiling intact and try to work it from there. The problem with these Germans is that it is very easy to fall in love with everything they have to offer and prices start shooting up very quickly so you might go for the base 320D but end up loving the 5 or the X3.
Another thing to keep in mind and this was one reason for us to ditch the German pack was that these cars are not very abuse friendly and since I go to HP every month, it would mean crazy wear and tear costs.
Ask them to show you only the base models so you won't be tempted. Try Audi too, always good discounts at Audi. Also if you are OK why not buy a petrol German they will be considerably cheap although resale will be bad. Also see if T and T have any old stock of the E, I heard some one get a 11 lakh discount on that.
Good luck man.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by eq24

Ask them to show you only the base models so you won't be tempted. Try Audi too, always good discounts at Audi. Also if you are OK why not buy a petrol German they will be considerably cheap although resale will be bad. Also see if T and T have any old stock of the E, I heard some one get a 11 lakh discount on that.
Good luck man.

Thanks for the advice. Its still not sure as to which way things will proceed. As far as base models are concerned these people will do themselves more harm then good if they end up charming me with a costlier model. Because my upper budget cap as you mentioned is limited. Since the budget was decided for the Fortuner the figure of 27L OTR has stuck on with my dad which I got increased to 30L. With BSI ( since 3 series was what I discussed with) this will go upto 33L approx and not much more then that. In case of any other brand lets say this 3 L would be kept aside as servicing costs. Bottomline being that I am only looking at the base models even though your E class deal sounds mouth watering.

Biggest grouse with these luxury cars is that every 2L there is a new model with some more cool gizmos. And as you rightly said if you do not put a upper limit then in no time you will reach that 50L mark from the starting 30.

If nothing works out then the Fortuner its going to be.

[drmohitg]

Slightly off topic but I was wondering what kind of profit is Toyota making on each Fortuner sold? Its priced at 27L OTR in Delhi and is a CKD with almost negligible premium/luxury interiors and features. On the other hand one can have a Volvo V40 which is a CBU, is loaded with almost all features known to man today and then some and Volvo still manages to price it at 28.5L ex showroom and is willing to offer discounts too. My guess is it would be not more than 30-31L OTR Delhi. Mind boggling margins in case of Toyota here.

[eq24]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Slightly off topic but I was wondering what kind of profit is Toyota making on each Fortuner sold? Its priced at 27L OTR in Delhi and is a CKD with almost negligible premium/luxury interiors and features. On the other hand one can have a Volvo V40 which is a CBU, is loaded with almost all features known to man today and then some and Volvo still manages to price it at 28.5L ex showroom and is willing to offer discounts too. My guess is it would be not more than 30-31L OTR Delhi. Mind boggling margins in case of Toyota here.

I am not sure of the exact profits but Toyota makes almost 100% in margins. For a 27 lak car after you factor in excise and other taxes borne by he company and dealer margins and transport, say around 4 to 5 lakh. So Toyota should have a final sell cost of about 22 but their actual cost of manufacture considering that this is a completely depreciated platform and economies of scale in the Fortuner Innova and Hilux, I would say Toyota is not spending more than 9 to 10 for complete manufacture. But this is not India only even if you check out Thailand or Malaysia the Fortuner is priced at par with India.
One thing if you analyse that the XUV is loaded to the gills and if you get down to the basics of metal used and other parts put in Mahindra is still making handsome profits and this is with a cost difference of at least 10 lakh to the Fortuner but then your service costs, part failures and other such ancillaries bring up the cost of ownership.
The same is the case with your Volvos and the Germans who by the way are also making anything between 90 to 100% margins on their product. Anything less than this and the company won't be able to survive. But then actual cost of ownership is a whole different ball game. My uncle has paid up around 7 lakhs till now in 3 years for the up keep of his M and this is just normal costs for a company like Mercedes. Factor in the fact that a 60 lakh car is now not fetching him anything more than 30 and loss of interest on such an investment.

I believe that cars like the Toyota factor in the cost of ownership in the initial price and combine that with decent resale in the long term the initial high upfront cost actually pays itself off.

But don't think on the above lines, you have practical cars in your garage, if you want go with the heart on this one just do it. Life's too short any ways.
Good luck

[roadjourno]

Originally Posted by eq24

I believe that cars like the Toyota factor in the cost of ownership in the initial price and combine that with decent resale in the long term the initial high upfront cost actually pays itself off.

But don't think on the above lines, you have practical cars in your garage, if you want go with the heart on this one just do it. Life's too short any ways.
Good luck

Thats a good information. By the way the price of new fortuner has gone up again by 1% since start of this moth :(
I wonder if it will ever come down.
No discounts. Nothing.. Makes the good used fortuner perhaps cheaper by 30 - 40% so mouthwatering. The only question is finding one is so demanding
Since 6 months havent been able to find a decent one still. Search and Game on still. Should anyone reading this come across any fortuner 4*4 post 2011 model in either mp or mh, please send me a private measage.