[RickyC]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

So my first interaction with the big mighty Germans happened yesterday. Went to check Mercedes first and then the BMW. Volvo and then TD for all will be done today. The Mercedes showroom at Rajouri Garden ( T&T motors) has newly opened up and I was actually impressed with the overall showroom outlay. Looked and felt premium in all ways and specially the cars with there LEDs on made the whole aura inside the showroom mesmerizing.
The C class looked and felt good, however a little cramped from the inside according to me. What I was disappointed was that there was absolutely no effort from the SA to sell the car. I didn't need his help per se since I and member Sameer who accompanied me, were well versed with the features etc. But sort of felt really let down as the SA didn't show us the features of the car etc specially when I mentioned to him as to how my buying decision suddenly shifted to the Trio from the Fortuner.
Anyways having said that the car didn't appeal to me that much, starting from the exterior looks. One good thing was that it comes with a full size Alloy spare wheel and the Mercedes star Ease programme is exactly similar to the BSI. Discount offered was 3.3L + 70k insurance free if I take finance from them. Otherwise the discount is 2.2L. This is on the Avant Garde trim ( god knows how do you pronounce that). The other trim had a 2.5L off on it and apparently the only difference between the two is Sunroof, Parking sensors and alloy design. Again the SA appeared disinterested in giving me an exact feature wise tour of both the models. The Avant garde trim after the discount comes to 37L OTR delhi. To my surprise my friend just managed to get the same trim from Chandigarh a month ago for 32L OTR with HR registration. Unable to understand the deal here. Have asked him for his SA's number and would talk to him.

So after a not so encouraging start, I went to BMW. The showroom set up is much smaller but the SA's response was better than the snobbish mercedes dealership. He explained me the features, tried to interact with my father ( who will talk to you more about the practical aspects of owning the BMW and not care much about features) that I appreciated while myself and Sameer checked out the car. I absolutely loved the 3 series. To me the dash layout looked better than the C class. The space in the back is surely more than the C, the front seats were more comfy and the steering was more good to hold. Quality wise I think both were pretty much similar although again I prefer BMW's layout of the Arm rest and space surrounding it in the front. Once again there has been no mail from them about the quotation etc even though I left my mail Id with the SA and he promised to mail me. Maybe it will arrive today.

So thats about it. Today going to check out Volvo and also meet up with member Sunny and TD his new 320D .
Overall a tad bit disappointed from Mercedes. As a layman, we have no idea what features the car has, all the magic tricks etc, even after visiting the dealership with the intention to buy the car. The experience of evaluating a new car gets really sour when the SA tells you " Sir this is the mercedes C class and it will cost you 41L OTR". Come on! Atleast show me the car in and out and then the price should be the last thing that should follow unless asked by the customer. This after the fact that they would not be getting more than 20 people probably in a day to see there cars. In exchange a humble Maruti salesman will spend more time in selling his 3L Rs Alto. May be they only deal with clientele dressed in Armani suits and stepping out of Luxury cars and not a humble Nissan sunny! The little bit of interest from there side, and even Sameer commented on the same that now he appears to be in a mood to sell the car, cropped up only in the end when I gave him my Email ID and he got to know that I am a Doctor. Hilarious to say the least.

Have been going through your thread and for once recall us being in exact situation as you are as far as XUV vs Fortuner goes. We finally went for XUV about two year ago and, so far so good. While we miss a more stable ride quality and reliability quotient of a Toyota, XUV surely wins with all the creature comforts it offers.
Now, as you have moved to the German trio, and with a recent experience of buying a beemer, I would suggest you try Deutsche Moteron, Noida for BMW as we found them more willing and down to earth than others. Shall advise SA details should you require the same.
As for Merc, try Silver Arrows, Noida as again being a new dealership they are more eager and willing to sell. They should be able to better the discount being offered by T&T.
Lastly, do check out A4 as well (with177bhp version) as well as it has a better NVH level than 320D and is more rightly sized for a family look car.
The 320d base version looks more sparten than others.
For Audi, again check out the new dealerships namely Audi Central and Audi Noida (both are sister concerns of Audi Gurgaon and Audi West respectively) and make them fight for your deal.
Cheers !

[eq24]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

So my first interaction with the big mighty Germans happened yesterday.

Well it is sad that you had a bad experience. Point is most of these guys never care for the features, their first point of discussion is fuel, then the trim and direct to price. You are apparently not supposed to ask about features.

In Gurgaon though, things are not that bad, our SA at Merc was a nice guy but even he was skimpish about the features.

After spending a lot of time at these premium dealerships I have understood one thing, these guys are very judgmental, the moment they meet you, they decide if you are a customer or not.

I had some advise from a friend on how to deal with these guys and it payed me off quite well.

First thing is to control your excitement, be wary of the car, keep that petrol head in you under control.
Second is to always go with either a hot girl or a dad. Money maker right there.
Thirdly ask about two cars and not focus on one. Throw in some nonsense about what your relatives drive and it has to be different, lie if you have to.
Fourth throw in hints that you are a corporate, these guys start salivating when they hear it is a corporate buy. Try to gauge how low he goes with the corporate rates, adjust your self from there. They will give you nonsense about giving the name of a registered company, if you have one fine other wise lie that it is not a problem.
Fifth oblige him by taking a test drive, make sure he is the one who is desperate to offer you one. On the test drive wake up the petrol head in you and let it rip.

Remember these guys are on commission.

Also most good sales men know with in 5 minutes that you are buying or not, the really good ones know in a few seconds.
They will try to make you believe that they are doing you a favour by selling the car, you should make this statement vice versa.

Also please do not call back if they haven't called, it will give him the upper hand. If you play your cards right, they will call. If they do not, NCR has no shortage of dealers. If you insist on going to the same dealership again, make it heard that you want a new SA one that calls, shame the fool in front of his colleagues.

Remember I went to all these dealerships in my Figo, parked it near their doors, had them wait hand and foot on me, took test drives and got the best rate possible. And I went and bought a Fortuner instead. To this day I get invited for all their new launches, heck Merc even sent a car to pick me up for their A class launch. It is all in the dealing my friend.

May the Force be with you.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by eq24

Well it is sad that you had a bad experience. Point is most of these guys never care for the features, their first point of discussion is fuel, then the trim and direct to price. You are apparently not supposed to ask about features.

That is precisely I took my father with me. But anyways Its least of my concern because honestly mercedes wasn't a serous contender for my money anyways.

Update number 2:

So continuing from where I left from on Monday, Tuesday we were supposed to go see the BMW properly in Gurgaon along with the TD and meet member Sunny who just recently bought the 320d. He had put me in contact with his SA who promised that he will get me the best deal. Also their (Bird Automotive) set up appeared much bigger than the other dealer in NCR ( Deutsche Motors).. So the plan was to just check out Volvo once to complete the list and then spend a major part of the day at BMW finalizing the deal. With some difficulty located the Volvo showroom in Gurgaon and things just started getting interesting from there. Volvo simply blew us away. From the dealership ambiance, the SA's presentation and the car itself. Before I get to the car, I would like to put in a special word for the SA ( Miss Shikha) who made an excellent excellent presentation on the car's features, spent a good 2 hours with us taking us through the V40, old S60 and new S60. She Patiently answered our queries and the whole experience was exactly what I had expected all along from these brands. What difference does it make, one might ask? Well it really creates a positive aspirational aura around the brand and makes you want to put down your money on it. So First it was the V40. There was a TD car parked right in front of the showroom and my dad was just bowled out. The look on his face was priceless. All the 30 kms from my house to the Volvo showroom he was reluctant to even waste time on Volvo and it all changed in a second. The V40 just looked even more sleek in real than the pictures. The feature list inside is just mind blowing. The moonroof is something I am going to want in every car of mine and I think it s much better than a traditional sun roof . The interior quality was top notch and I liked the design of the dash. It looks much better in person than the pictures where it looks pretty dull. The TFT display was also really interesting. Safety wise the V40 has been voted as the safest car by Euro NCAP ratings. And the V40 comes with a spare donut wheel. We took a fairly long TD on the V40 and it was my first ever TD of a AT car. But surprisingly all the apprehension went away in a couple of seconds. The car has around 150 BHP and had a good amount of punch. The 6 speed AT did offer a slight lag while shifting gears ( not sure if this is with every AT box). The initial lag is evident only if you slam the accelerator. But after the slight lag the car can quickly reach 3 digit speeds. The handling was excellent and it felt really planted till 130 ( maximum that I could take it). Special word of appreciation for the steering which felt very chunky to hold and behaved like a Hydraulic although its a EPS set up.
The couple of drawbacks:
1. The head room at the back is slightly limited and tall people ( 6ft) and above would find it little cramped. The rear bench is only for 2 people and 3 would be a tight fit.
2. The car is a hatch and looks smaller than the X1 probably owning to its lesser height.
3. It apparently has a waiting and there are no discounts on it. This was the major drawback as I was hoping that they will atleast offer 1.5-2L off on it. With the current prices it comes to 32.5 OTR that is dangerously close to 320d baseline ( after discount).

So from the V40 we moved to the S60. The new S60 looks even better and has that aggressive from end now. Overall the S60 was always a very handsome looking car and the less number of them on the roads add a look of freshness to the whole car. The new S60 also comes with the TFT display now. To me the interiors looked really luxurious and better than the BMW and Mercedes. Also the interior space looked much more than the BMW and Mercedes. But since there are no discounts on it currently, I didn't spend much extra time on the car. And yes forgot to mention, you have to check out the new Alloys that the S60 now comes with. Drool worthy! Sexiest OEM alloys this side of 1 Crore.

The old S60 was the next in line and the SA mentioned that there would be a good deal on the old one. Apart from the changes in the headlight and slight changes in the front bumper and alloys, the majority of the car is almost the same as the facelifted model. Feature list is also the same except that this comes with the traditional meters and not the TFT display screen. The self braking/city safe feature on the older S60 works only till a speed of 30 kmph unlike the newer one which works to a speed of 50 kmph. Due to the lack of time I couldn't drive the S60, but am going to do that in the next couple of days.

After this we went to BMW and suddenly the 320D started loosing that mental battle against the Volvo. Since it was already dark I didn't TD the 3 which also will be now done tomorrow.

Price wise the older S60 kinetic variant( all are 2013 models) is costing me a whopping 6L less than the 320d. Add to this the cost of BSI and it almost comes to 8.5L difference and I am seriously considering this. The Summom variant with the sunroof et all is costing me almost 2 L less than the 320d and with BSI this will come to 5L which would be enough money to take car of any untoward expenses. Have to really decide between the Volvo and BMW now.

What is holding me back is the question that is Volvo a brand I can trust with my money? How is the service experience and cost? Does all the gadgetry make it a unreliable car? What are the long term ownership scenarios like? lastly does it make sense in saving 6L and going for the older S60 rather than the new F30 320d? Everyone I asked advised me against Volvo for the reason that it doesn't sell much and has no brand recall. The brand part is not that important to me. But the long term ownership part is!

[noopster]

Well, personally...if I could afford a BMW I wouldn't opt for a Volvo. The brand evokes safe, boring, family cars: station wagon is what comes to mind. In India folks only know Volvo buses, more's the pity. Also the fact that Volvos have negligible resale value here, even the diesels, should give you pause for thought when shelling out 3 million.

But like you say the V40 is gorgeous and so is the S60 and if you are happy with the presales experience it may be worth a shot. Good luck with your choice!

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by noopster

Well, personally...if I could afford a BMW I wouldn't opt for a Volvo. The brand evokes safe, boring, family cars: station wagon is what comes to mind. In India folks only know Volvo buses, more's the pity. Also the fact that Volvos have negligible resale value here, even the diesels, should give you pause for thought when shelling out 3 million.

But like you say the V40 is gorgeous and so is the S60 and if you are happy with the presales experience it may be worth a shot. Good luck with your choice!

Anoop I am not sure if you have checked out Volvo personally yet or not. If not please I beg you to once go and check the V40 and the S60. It might change the whole thought process for you. Sincerely request you to once go and check them out. The brand recall is much less than BMW no doubt. But then BMW is become so common on our roads whereas the Volvo is still really exclusive.

I am really interested in knowing the long term service costs of the Volvo. Any idea on that?

PS: Please go and check the Volvo out. Afterall none of my cars have ever been bought without your significant contribution !

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

What is holding me back is the question that is Volvo a brand I can trust with my money? How is the service experience and cost? Does all the gadgetry make it a unreliable car? What are the long term ownership scenarios like? lastly does it make sense in saving 6L and going for the older S60 rather than the new F30 320d? Everyone I asked advised me against Volvo for the reason that it doesn't sell much and has no brand recall. The brand part is not that important to me. But the long term ownership part is!

I don’t think there is much to differentiate between these brands (Volvo and the German biggies) when it comes to cost and service experience. Volvo cars are generally known as long termers and in my opinion V40 or pre-facelift S60 Summum are good options to consider, especially since you have plans to keep the car for long term.

[eq24]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

What is holding me back is the question that is Volvo a brand I can trust with my money? How is the service experience and cost? Does all the gadgetry make it a unreliable car? What are the long term ownership scenarios like? lastly does it make sense in saving 6L and going for the older S60 rather than the new F30 320d? Everyone I asked advised me against Volvo for the reason that it doesn't sell much and has no brand recall. The brand part is not that important to me. But the long term ownership part is!

Go for the Volvo, cost of ownership wise, they will be pretty much the same and considering how overpopulated the BMW's and the Audi's have become, it will be a welcome change.
The new Volvo cars look fantastic and that is always a good thing. Moreover they are cheaper and also have more kit so Win Win.
The only downer will be resale but since you are after a long term buy, it should be OK.
More and more Volvo cars are coming on the road and that means people are incling towards this brand, it won't happen over night but I would assume in a year or two, Volvo will become quite an aspirational product.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by eq24

Go for the Volvo, cost of ownership wise, they will be pretty much the same and considering how overpopulated the BMW's and the Audi's have become, it will be a welcome change.

The only downer will be resale but since you are after a long term buy, it should be OK.

The resale will be little less but its ok. Because:
1. Keeping the car for 5 years after which most of these luxury cars have depreciated like crazy.
2. Second thing is I am already getting it at a discount. So that should make the depreciation hit a little less painful

More and more Volvo cars are coming on the road and that means people are incling towards this brand, it won't happen over night but I would assume in a year or two, Volvo will become quite an aspirational product.

+1. Going tomorrow for a back to back TD of the S60 and the 320d. Lets see how things fare out.

[TorquePeedo]

Sorry about taking the discussion to the original one, I had a question regarding the XUV option in this thread:

I have read about XUV having issues which bring the car to a halt (like gear assembly etc) although the Mahindra service is upto the mark and they change the part in warranty. My worry would be that till the time I am covered in warranty I am fine but once the warranty expires all the expenses will be borne by me and the point that these parts are failing there are chances they will fail after the warranty as well.

Fortuner on the other hand is expensive with lesser features but we can be assured about the reliability on the road and the costs incurred over the period of ownership.

What does everyone think about this aspect.

[sameerg001]

We checked the audi too today and after driving it, we were sure, It's not going to be the a4. Now, it's the confusion between s60 and 320d, Tomorrow we're going for back to back drive of both the cars and the one steals our heart will be the winner. I'll wait for mohit to update further.

[nitinralli]

And i thought this thread might be over by now and Mohit would be meeting us in Delhi meet in his brand new Fortuner

Mohit my take is, go for Volvo. Why:

• Its a change from every day B's and M's and A's.
• All the features you get makes it worth it.
• As you said, you LOVED it so everyday when you wake up and look at it, it will bring a smile to your face.
• All these cars do depreciate a lot so Volvo is not a exception.
• You would keep this for a long time hence not much resale issue too.
• Service wise it would come down to same as others

So go for it before this thread moves into Bentley Vs RR

[sameerg001]

Originally Posted by nitinralli

And i thought this thread might be over by now and Mohit would be meeting us in Delhi meet in his brand new Fortuner

Mohit my take is, go for Volvo. Why:

• Its a change from every day B's and M's and A's.
• All the features you get makes it worth it.
• As you said, you LOVED it so everyday when you wake up and look at it, it will bring a smile to your face.
• All these cars do depreciate a lot so Volvo is not a exception.
• You would keep this for a long time hence not much resale issue too.
• Service wise it would come down to same as others

So go for it before this thread moves into Bentley Vs RR

Haha, Even he liked the s60 but the we are getting like 4l off on pre facelift s60, So effectively after discount the kinetic variant of s60 comes to be around 27 on road and we are getting the 320d the older one model without xenon for some 28.7 on road with hr registration, this is what is confusing. The savings aren't significant, plus we get the latest generation product from BMW, the new s60 is already here. Also, the brand image of BMW is anyday better then the volvo. Also, the main point here which could make decision tilt towards 3 is the availability of BSI. Just pay for once and you're good to go for next 5 years.

It's so bloody confusing here

[nitinralli]

Originally Posted by sameerg001

Haha, Even he liked the s60 but the we are getting like 4l off on pre facelift s60, So effectively after discount the kinetic variant of s60 comes to be around 27 on road and we are getting the 320d the older one model without xenon for some 28.7 on road with hr registration, this is what is confusing. The savings aren't significant, plus we get the latest generation product from BMW, the new s60 is already here. Also, the brand image of BMW is anyday better then the volvo. Also, the main point here which could make decision tilt towards 3 is the availability of BSI. Just pay for once and you're good to go for next 5 years.

It's so bloody confusing here

But Sameer, Mohit said there is a big difference between the 2 (below is the extract from his earlier comment)

Price wise the older S60 kinetic variant( all are 2013 models) is costing me a whopping 6L less than the 320d. Add to this the cost of BSI and it almost comes to 8.5L difference and I am seriously considering this. The Summom variant with the sunroof et all is costing me almost 2 L less than the 320d and with BSI this will come to 5L which would be enough money to take car of any untoward expenses. Have to really decide between the Volvo and BMW now.

With 5L difference, it makes more sense to go for Volvo.

[sameerg001]

Originally Posted by nitinralli

But Sameer, Mohit said there is a big difference between the 2 (below is the extract from his earlier comment)

Price wise the older S60 kinetic variant( all are 2013 models) is costing me a whopping 6L less than the 320d. Add to this the cost of BSI and it almost comes to 8.5L difference and I am seriously considering this. The Summom variant with the sunroof et all is costing me almost 2 L less than the 320d and with BSI this will come to 5L which would be enough money to take car of any untoward expenses. Have to really decide between the Volvo and BMW now.

With 5L difference, it makes more sense to go for Volvo.

Let me explain this, what mohit said is for the one with xenons, we are getting more discounts on the 320d without xenons then one with xenons. So, what mohit said here is for the one with xenon and i mentioned is for without xenon.

Here you go: S60 kinetic 27L, 320D without xenon 28.7 and 320d with xenon 32.7 all figures on road with Hr registration. The difference between the two beemer is increasing the confusion, some time we feel like the difference is not worth going in for one with xenon, other time we're like the cornoas is what makes a bmw look like bmw

Like i said, It's bloody confusing

[GTO]

Mod Note : Please stick to the topic of discussion i.e. XUV500 & Fortuner. Other premium SUVs can be discussed on their respective threads.

Thanks!