The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread

DerAlte · 16th May 2009, 23:46

Too early for the tapered bearings to fail. If it is humming and close to failure, the hub will be hotter. Also, if you have the vehicle raised, one should be able to hear a soft grind with a metal pipe when the wheel is rotated. Problem is that the symptom may vanish when the wheel is unloaded!

Are you getting pulsations in the brake pedal? If the rotor is slightly off, the pads might be vibrating. Ditto if the caliper is not centering properly.

The third reason could be wheel imbalance, but this will show up only when the wheel rpm is significant.

tsk1979 · 16th May 2009, 23:57

Its a Tata. Anything can fail anytime. I have had mechanical failures in this vehicle, so I am not ruling out anything.
The hum starts from 30kmph. I shifted to neutral at 60 and hum was there, as she coasted slower and slower. the hum lessened.

And today the service light appeared 3-4 times. I cannot recreate it. ITs totally random. Only a visit to service center will tell.
Have to choose between devil and the deep sea. Sterling or Dynamic!

dadu · 17th May 2009, 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Mine is not related to engine. I shifted to neutral and let her coast, the hum was there. Sounds exactly like wheel bearing hum in the indica.

If its not continuous it can be the rubber noise from the tyres rolling up from the road. I have felt it once in a while myself at 100+ speeds. Its like hmmmm...pause...hmmmm then silent.

Some roads do produce this type of noise.

BTW, did you try System D for your RPM surging problem ??

tsk1979 · 17th May 2009, 16:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadu

If its not continuous it can be the rubber noise from the tyres rolling up from the road. I have felt it once in a while myself at 100+ speeds. Its like hmmmm...pause...hmmmm then silent.

Some roads do produce this type of noise.

BTW, did you try System D for your RPM surging problem ??

Yup one full bottle finished in abound 4 tankfulls, no effect at all. Surging is there, and at 11 degrees it was surging like crazy. Looks like a visit to TASC, but I am not hoping for miracles

dadu · 17th May 2009, 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Yup one full bottle finished in abound 4 tankfulls, no effect at all. Surging is there, and at 11 degrees it was surging like crazy. Looks like a visit to TASC, but I am not hoping for miracles

RESET your ECU afterwards??

Usually not required but your is a jinxed one

and we need to break it, so that it relearns the normal way of running.

tsk1979 · 17th May 2009, 21:07

I think I will go to TASS. I suspect the EGR. Infact thats the only thing they can change now, everything else they have tried

kingshukt · 18th May 2009, 08:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadu

If its not continuous it can be the rubber noise from the tyres rolling up from the road. I have felt it once in a while myself at 100+ speeds. Its like hmmmm...pause...hmmmm then silent.

Some roads do produce this type of noise.

No, not just the road, but tyre noise is also a possibility.
That is why tyre designers give relievers inside a pattern to breakup the air compressions / expulsions.

I had this problem in my earlier vehicle with MRG Zigma tyres.

However with tyres worn at 17000 KMs, the probability seems to be less unless:
1. The tyres have not been worn uniformly and
2. As Der Alte mentioned, tyre imbalance / alignment issues may have cropped up.

The taper -roller hub bearings (as you suspect) may also be the cause (with offroading and what not

)

And lastly I certainly hope that it is not the issue with the transfer case

tsk1979 · 18th May 2009, 10:25

I swictched off the engine at 40kmph, and noise is there. Does not seem like tire noise though, since its consistant. Moreover at 40kmph I don't think even unevenly worn out tires will cause noise(mine are unevenly worn out).
When I went to Manali, even at 100kmph there was no such noise, it started coming from past few days.

kingshukt · 18th May 2009, 12:20

To check out, you may interchange tyres (or rotate them) - put the rear tyres front.
Tyre noise can also happen at 40 KMPH. My earlier vehicle was a Sierra and 40 KMPH was a good enough speed (in a city) for that vehicle.
The tyre imbalance / alignment may have also cropped up subsequent to Manali trip.

BTW

, your travellogue is very well written and makes us introspect our life

tsk1979 · 18th May 2009, 12:35

Noida has just two big service centers, Sterling and Dynamic. I had had bad experiences with sterling with my indica. Every time I used to get something repaired. something broke down
Therefore I went to dynamic.
I was attended immediately, and we went for a TD.
First the was the noise. At first he suspected tires, but after a short TD the service advisor told me its bearings, and they are not in stock. come after 10 days or so.
I was like whoa!
Next was the skid. I hit the brakes, and she went sideways, and both the service advisors hung on to their lives. They told me this is normal. On hard braking all safari's go sideways.
At that point I decided dynamic is not for me.
So with lots of apprehension I went to sterling. Thankfully the whole staff has changed. Hopefully this is a good thing.
The SA told me that it can't be done today due to rush so he will take TD, and I have to come tomorrow at 9am.
I said fine, and we went for TD.
For the humming noise he said it sounds like bearings but he is not sure, could be front diff also, they will open and check.
There was no fast speed stretch around, so I showed him sideways at 50kmph, it was much less, but he noticed.
He told me brake pad cleaning should take care of it. I told him I have paid 225rs for the same multiple times, and only if thats the solution do it, otherwise not.
I also showed him the mobile video of surging.
So tomorrow I will get the vehicle to sterling, and I hope things get sorted out.

trrk · 18th May 2009, 12:56

Hi,

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

I think I will go to TASS. I suspect the EGR.

This is a message about EGR in relation with the Indica and its cousins. Take a look if and when you have time:

Yahoo! Groups

dadu · 18th May 2009, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsk1979

I think I will go to TASS. I suspect the EGR. Infact thats the only thing they can change now, everything else they have tried

Well why not, btw, the EGR valve in Safari is a pneumatic mechanical one and does not operate at idle.

kingshukt · 18th May 2009, 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by dadu

Well why not, btw, the EGR valve in Safari is a pneumatic mechanical one and does not operate at idle.

Are you sure about Pneumatic ?
I thought they are pure mechanical working on pressure difference / vaccuum ?? But then

dadu · 18th May 2009, 13:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingshukt

Are you sure about Pneumatic ?
I thought they are pure mechanical working on pressure difference / vaccuum ?? But then

Yes, proof included with exact part no

.

The Tata Safari 2.2L Technical / Problems Thread-2.2legr.jpg

kingshukt · 18th May 2009, 13:54

My bad (and my stupidity also prooved

).
Change in pressure / vaccuum is apparantly termed as Pneumatic.

EDIT: back to TSK's issue: EGR is then ruled out and based on TASS Service advisor is anything between the Hub bearing and the front differential (transfer case ??)
BTW I recollect the TSK had some issues with transfer case earlier and something was replaced ??

16th May 2009, 23:46	#781
DerAlte Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 8,027 Thanked: 2,920 Times	Too early for the tapered bearings to fail. If it is humming and close to failure, the hub will be hotter. Also, if you have the vehicle raised, one should be able to hear a soft grind with a metal pipe when the wheel is rotated. Problem is that the symptom may vanish when the wheel is unloaded! Are you getting pulsations in the brake pedal? If the rotor is slightly off, the pads might be vibrating. Ditto if the caliper is not centering properly. The third reason could be wheel imbalance, but this will show up only when the wheel rpm is significant.
	() Thanks

16th May 2009, 23:57	#782
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,688 Thanked: 23,494 Times View My Garage	Its a Tata. Anything can fail anytime. I have had mechanical failures in this vehicle, so I am not ruling out anything. The hum starts from 30kmph. I shifted to neutral at 60 and hum was there, as she coasted slower and slower. the hum lessened. And today the service light appeared 3-4 times. I cannot recreate it. ITs totally random. Only a visit to service center will tell. Have to choose between devil and the deep sea. Sterling or Dynamic! Last edited by tsk1979 : 17th May 2009 at 00:14.
	() Thanks

17th May 2009, 21:07	#786
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,688 Thanked: 23,494 Times View My Garage	I think I will go to TASS. I suspect the EGR. Infact thats the only thing they can change now, everything else they have tried
	() Thanks

18th May 2009, 10:25	#788
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,688 Thanked: 23,494 Times View My Garage	I swictched off the engine at 40kmph, and noise is there. Does not seem like tire noise though, since its consistant. Moreover at 40kmph I don't think even unevenly worn out tires will cause noise(mine are unevenly worn out). When I went to Manali, even at 100kmph there was no such noise, it started coming from past few days.
	() Thanks

18th May 2009, 12:20	#789
kingshukt BHPian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 450 Thanked: 10 Times	To check out, you may interchange tyres (or rotate them) - put the rear tyres front. Tyre noise can also happen at 40 KMPH. My earlier vehicle was a Sierra and 40 KMPH was a good enough speed (in a city) for that vehicle. The tyre imbalance / alignment may have also cropped up subsequent to Manali trip. BTW , your travellogue is very well written and makes us introspect our life Last edited by kingshukt : 18th May 2009 at 12:23.
	() Thanks

18th May 2009, 12:35	#790
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,688 Thanked: 23,494 Times View My Garage	A tale of 2 service centers Noida has just two big service centers, Sterling and Dynamic. I had had bad experiences with sterling with my indica. Every time I used to get something repaired. something broke down Therefore I went to dynamic. I was attended immediately, and we went for a TD. First the was the noise. At first he suspected tires, but after a short TD the service advisor told me its bearings, and they are not in stock. come after 10 days or so. I was like whoa! Next was the skid. I hit the brakes, and she went sideways, and both the service advisors hung on to their lives. They told me this is normal. On hard braking all safari's go sideways. At that point I decided dynamic is not for me. So with lots of apprehension I went to sterling. Thankfully the whole staff has changed. Hopefully this is a good thing. The SA told me that it can't be done today due to rush so he will take TD, and I have to come tomorrow at 9am. I said fine, and we went for TD. For the humming noise he said it sounds like bearings but he is not sure, could be front diff also, they will open and check. There was no fast speed stretch around, so I showed him sideways at 50kmph, it was much less, but he noticed. He told me brake pad cleaning should take care of it. I told him I have paid 225rs for the same multiple times, and only if thats the solution do it, otherwise not. I also showed him the mobile video of surging. So tomorrow I will get the vehicle to sterling, and I hope things get sorted out.
	() Thanks

18th May 2009, 13:54	#795
kingshukt BHPian Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 450 Thanked: 10 Times	My bad (and my stupidity also prooved). Change in pressure / vaccuum is apparantly termed as Pneumatic. EDIT: back to TSK's issue: EGR is then ruled out and based on TASS Service advisor is anything between the Hub bearing and the front differential (transfer case ??) BTW I recollect the TSK had some issues with transfer case earlier and something was replaced ?? Last edited by kingshukt : 18th May 2009 at 14:03.
	() Thanks