[ajaynaphade]

Thanks Zappo, for your answer. I was doing some search yesterday evening, back @home for ‘H-Matic’ transmission which HMIL is providing in its ‘ANHV’.
While, most of us are not appreciating 4 speed automatic, I found an archived article which talks about ‘H-Matic’, first introduced in 2007 in Sonata Embera diesel generating a whooping 142 PS.
The article does appreciated this 4 speed ‘H-Matic’.
Following is the link:

The Hindu Business Line : Sonata Embera diesel automatic — Half the effort, twice the fun

My question is, if it worked well for the above mentioned car, why cannot it do wonders for ‘ANHV’. Friends, kindly share your thoughts.

[Visaster]

Thats a real nice review, just when i completely ruled out Verna after the launch of the deform and just was left with VENTO and SX4 to decide, VERNA jumped back into the fight completely reformed and great looking.
I love the side lines of the car, the front is just like an i10/i 20 bigger version and the back is not up to my liking, but over all it looks good.
Another point lost is the back seat comfort which is very essential for a typical Indian family.
Well about the car flying off the road feel, i had the same feel with the older verna diesel too. It had so much power left in it to exploit but the car does not give you the confidence to go beyond 160kmph, that may be because the car is made light to give you a great mileage.

We can never have everything on our checklist can we.

Hope to test drive myself when its decently priced and have different accessory options to beat the VENTO out.

[Xehaust]

Originally Posted by ares05

And let me remind you this was a fully loaded car (5 guys and baggage). My friend entered the turn at precisely 85kmph and what happened next scared the life out of all of us. The back stepped out...

I don't know if this could have been avoided if we had ABS or all four discs (this was a i20 Sportz version, only front discs). I know taking a turn at 85kmph is spirited driving but my friend still exclaims that he never thought the car would lose control at that speed and with full load. The wheels are also upsized to 195 from the stock 185 and I'm certain we weren't doing more than 85 because all i do seated at the rear center is stare at the speedometer

All I'm saying is that I wouldn't try to be over enthusiastic with these cars and you don't need to reach triple digits to rock them like a boat.

2 things to mention here:
First, being over enthusiastic with any car will lead to the same. Its not because of the suspension but rather due to not knowing the limits of the car. Even supercars do crash Not knowing the limit of the car is the problem rather than the car itself. I remember seeing a video of a Lambo taking a simple turn at slow speeds and an over enthusiastic driver having that meet with an accident! Here it is:

YouTube - Amateur Lamborghini driver loses control

Secondly, its quite possible that he braked during the curve. Its a very common reason for having accidents wherein the drivers dont realise what went wrong. Always brake before the corner to slow down rather than when your almost there or even mid-corner.

[Zappo]

Originally Posted by shamanth

@Zappo, People are still in doubt, if the engine is started, Can the car be driven away even if key is not near by. If engine shuts done if key is far away then its foolproof. Suppose if its a AT car, which wont accidentally stop and could be taken to safe place without a key?

I see that.

As Turbanator confirmed after checking his 530d yesterday, once his car's engine is running even if he removes the key out of the car the engine keeps running. As for me, I tested the fact that although the new Verna starts when the key is around the car (including outside but very near to the car) the car detects the key to be out of range and raises an alarm if you take a few steps further away.

Now I somehow missed checking on what happens if the distance keeps increasing. Does the engine shut down? Or does it keeps running but also keeps flashing the warning? My personal theory is that it should shutdown. Nowadays the cars are all centrally controlled by the ECU which in turn may talk to many other CUs. Now if the ECU can detect the out of range key when the engine is running how difficult could it be for the ECU to shut the car down? If Hyundai has not built that provision then again I would say there has to be a reason behind that.

I would also like to know what happens when the key is not inside and the car is being driven away by someone else and the key holder detects this and immediately say presses a key or a combination of keys on the fob (eg: the lock button)? Will the car immediately shut down? These are all doable things and its just a matter of programming. I guess we will have to wait till this 11th for the car's launch to test these theories.

Originally Posted by ajaynaphade

Thanks Zappo ...

The article does appreciated this 4 speed ‘H-Matic’.
Following is the link:

The Hindu Business Line : Sonata Embera diesel automatic — Half the effort, twice the fun

My question is, if it worked well for the above mentioned car, why cannot it do wonders for ‘ANHV’. Friends, kindly share your thoughts.

I read that article. I would note a few things about this article.

* A newspaper article may have been written by a journalist who also covers many other things beyond cars. In fact this is the norm unless it is a specialized auto journal (and even then it is a suspect). In such cases the scrutiny may not always be very detail.

* It looks to me like the journalist in this case ran the car for a short period mostly in city. Now in such cases this gearbox will definitely appear fun. The case is the same even with the new Verna. In fact I mentioned so somewhere I believe in the review that the automatic will be a boon for many owners in the big cities who will put this car through the daily grinds of a metro or a big city.

* Even on the highways to many people this gearbox will appear fun as they can shift over to the triptronic mode and start controlling it like a manual car. That itself gives people a high as it appears to be the case from this article as well.

However, though it is a big plus to have that option, there is more to it than just being able to shift over to the manual mode and choose your own gear. How well does a 4-speeder holds up in a powerful car like the Embera with 142 ps power? Does it do justice to the capabilities of this engine? A person may say that even with the autobox his Embera regularly touches 3 digit speeds on the highway. But then does it do so laboriously when compared to its manual cousin? Does the engine sound coarse because it is being made to run harder to make up for the absence of higher ratios? This is when you may find the 4-speeder is giving you a raw deal.

Here I must say that although the Embera autobox is mentioned as a 4-speeder I do not know whether the ratios are/were the same in this car as opposed to what they have put in for the Verna. That can also make a lot of difference actually in the feel you get while driving. Still, you will find these finer points are just missing in the above article. The writer is just all ga-ga about having the triptronic option where he can accelerate faster when needed instead of waiting for the autobox to play catch up!

[Surprise]

Originally Posted by ares05

trip in an I20 and we encountered a right turn of about 70-80 degrees (it was absolutely not a right angle turn). And let me remind you this was a fully loaded car (5 guys and baggage). My friend entered the turn at precisely 85kmph and what happened next scared the life out of all of us. The back stepped out and my friend who was totally caught off guard lost control but did manage to fling the car full left so as to avoid hitting the divider. The car then drifted left and headed for a ditch. He then flung it right and the car did a full 180 and rolled back into the opposite lane (there was a gap in the divider)

You mean to say that a poor handler is always at risk certain times. Vento has got full marks from GTO for his handling capabilities. Given a similar situation, do you think this accident itself could have been avoided completely.

[KPS]

Originally Posted by Zappo

As Turbanator confirmed after checking his 530d yesterday, once his car's engine is running even if he removes the key out of the car the engine keeps running. As for me, I tested the fact that although the new Verna starts when the key is around the car (including outside but very near to the car) the car detects the key to be out of range and raises an alarm if you take a few steps further away.

On my friends Cruze too was witnessed that the engine does not shut down automatically when the key is out of range. When we switched off the engine manually there was an indicator and it would not start with the key out of range.

Guess if you park the car and you want to keep the engine running as you want to run the AC, it is better the manually lock the car when no one is in the driver seat.

Cheers

KPS

[jkdas]

Pretty excited! The Verna is here with Hilton Motors! Hope to test drive it soon!

[hossdoc]

Originally Posted by ares05

My friends and I were on our way back from a trip in an I20 and we encountered a right turn of about 70-80 degrees (it was absolutely not a right angle turn). And let me remind you this was a fully loaded car (5 guys and baggage). My friend entered the turn at precisely 85kmph and what happened next scared the life out of all of us. The back stepped out and my friend who was totally caught off guard lost control but did manage to fling the car full left so as to avoid hitting the divider. The car then drifted left and headed for a ditch. He then flung it right and the car did a full 180 and rolled back into the opposite lane (there was a gap in the divider)

Correct me if i'm wrong but wouldn't a fully loaded car be inherently more unstable than an empty one at the SAME CORNERING SPEED? Also surely there are more factors in play here than "car being bad", for example quality of tyres, not just size, quality of the road surface, ROAD CAMBER at the corner in question (remember in India there is never any logic to the way roads are built, even on roads such as the Pune-Mumbai expressway there are sections where i believe the camber is wrong) and most important - DRIVER ERROR - even FORMULA 1 cars have to SLOW down to LESS THAN 50 KMPH on SOME TURNS.
I for one would definitely not blame the car here from your description of the incident.

[KPS]

Originally Posted by hossdoc

Correct me if i'm wrong but wouldn't a fully loaded car be inherently more unstable than an empty one at the SAME CORNERING SPEED? Also surely there are more factors in play here than "car being bad", for example quality of tyres, not just size, quality of the road surface, ROAD CAMBER at the corner in question (remember in India there is never any logic to the way roads are built, even on roads such as the Pune-Mumbai expressway there are sections where i believe the camber is wrong) and most important - DRIVER ERROR - even FORMULA 1 cars have to SLOW down to LESS THAN 50 KMPH on SOME TURNS.
I for one would definitely not blame the car here from your description of the incident.

Perfect answer hossdoc. One more point to add is that i20 has a stiff suspension whilst the Verna is supposed to have a soft suspension. I own a i20 CRDI ASTA and know the stiff suspension well. Obviously there is a huge difference between the two suspension setups.

Cheers

KPS

[incinerator]

I did a TD of the Kizashi a few weeks ago. The salesman told me that once started, the vehicle would stop if the car was driven away without the key in range. So we did a test. I stood out with the key in my pocket, car moved away for 300 m, didn't stop!

You cant restart it without the key, but can certainly keep driving till the fuel gets over I guess.

I think tsk had made these points in his Cruze review.

[shivasuma]

Originally Posted by KPS

Perfect answer hossdoc. One more point to add is that i20 has a stiff suspension whilst the Verna is supposed to have a soft suspension. I own a i20 CRDI ASTA and know the stiff suspension well. Obviously there is a huge difference between the two suspension setups.

Cheers

KPS

The problem with the i20 is that it wallows when the road gets uneven. I have at times had to slow down because the car was not too inspiring. It is in no way a bad car but definitely not a drivers car. When my wife was pregnant, she refused to sit in the I20, saying it was too uncomfortable for her and always preferred the Fiesta. I was hoping Hyundai would have gotten the suspension setup better in the new verna. Will find out soon as I am in the market for a new car.

[ares05]

Originally Posted by Xehaust

Secondly, its quite possible that he braked during the curve. Its a very common reason for having accidents wherein the drivers dont realise what went wrong. Always brake before the corner to slow down rather than when your almost there or even mid-corner.

Yes, you are absolutely right. He did brake during the curve, hence the whole fiasco.

Originally Posted by Surprise

You mean to say that a poor handler is always at risk certain times. Vento has got full marks from GTO for his handling capabilities. Given a similar situation, do you think this accident itself could have been avoided completely.

Yes, thats what i was trying to say, a poor handler is a risk. I haven't driven the Vento but I have driven the Polo oh and it is a remarkable handler! I've driven both the I20 and Polo extensively and my god the Polo just grips the road! Even body roll is almost non existant. As Xehaust said, braking during the curve may have caused the accident but IMHO if we were in a Polo I think it would have understeered instead of drifting. I'm not an expert driver but just a thought, correct me if I'm wrong

[rmk]

What is the key factor in deciding a car price? or its segment? Is it 1.2L, 1.4, 1.6 like that or is it the bhps it produce? Im asking this because im confused where the 1.4L verna will be positioned. The current transform has a 1.6L engine starting 6.58 ex showroom price. So, will the verna 1.4v petrol placed in this price range or higher?

The styling is unique but also a lill odd in some angles. The hood and front end looks nice but the rear is not exciting. Will have to wait and see whether verna will be benchmark in styling..! Also if they price the 1.4 L petrol verna at 6.6ex showroom, city is gonna loose some serious numbers from its charts...

[Xehaust]

Originally Posted by ares05

Yes, you are absolutely right. He did brake during the curve, hence the whole fiasco.



Yes, thats what i was trying to say, a poor handler is a risk. I haven't driven the Vento but I have driven the Polo oh and it is a remarkable handler! I've driven both the I20 and Polo extensively and my god the Polo just grips the road! Even body roll is almost non existant. As Xehaust said, braking during the curve may have caused the accident but IMHO if we were in a Polo I think it would have understeered instead of drifting. I'm not an expert driver but just a thought, correct me if I'm wrong

Unfortunately, that is a misconception. Like i mentioned earlier, it just depends on the limits of the car. All things remaining constant, the Polo too would have lost control & not understeered.
Yes, if he had not braked & turned hard, it would understeer.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by rmk

What is the key factor in deciding a car price? or its segment? Is it 1.2L, 1.4, 1.6 like that or is it the bhps it produce? Im asking this because im confused where the 1.4L verna will be positioned. The current transform has a 1.6L engine starting 6.58 ex showroom price. So, will the verna 1.4v petrol placed in this price range or higher?

The styling is unique but also a lill odd in some angles. The hood and front end looks nice but the rear is not exciting. Will have to wait and see whether verna will be benchmark in styling..! Also if they price the 1.4 L petrol verna at 6.6ex showroom, city is gonna loose some serious numbers from its charts...

I would expect the 1.4L to start at the same pricing as the current base version. To compensate the degrade of 1.6L to 1.4L at the same price point, they might add some more features than the current 1.6L base! And being a bit optimistic, they could even price it slightly lower than the current 1.6L base, but I would think that's highly unlikely. And the pricing criteria differs for each manufacture is what I have seen. Maruti makes sure its proper VFM [most of the times with few exceptions] with no competition in proximity, Hyundai has started looking at a slight premium loading their cars with lots of features.

For me, it would be the A** + build quality + features + engines offered plus the brand value of the manufacturer. Not everyone follows this though.

Originally Posted by Xehaust

Unfortunately, that is a misconception. Like i mentioned earlier, it just depends on the limits of the car. All things remaining constant, the Polo too would have lost control & not understeered.
Yes, if he had not braked & turned hard, it would understeer.

Not able to relate your post properly. If Polo behaves like an i20, then why would some one term it as a better handler ! Given the same conditions am sure Swift / Polo / Punto would behave better than i10 / i20 or even Ritz [not very sure of this] / Wagon R.

As far as I know, we can throw a Swift / Polo / Punto in the curves much more than the comparatively poor handlers mentioned above - the limits for these cars will be higher because of the difference in suspension set up and the likes. And yes, even the best handler will have a limit beyond which it would move off the roads, but that limit also will be high.