[Lemon]

http://jalopnik.com/heres-how-much-h...r-d-1734341446


Link to the Dyno tested car with all wheels spinning and two wheels. In line with what Tanveer experienced after his cars software update.

[spyder_p8]

Originally Posted by Vik0728

This is totally unacceptable and downright deplorable update from VW Tanveer and I shudder at what may happen to my GT if I went ahead with this update, after reading your experience

I have driven the Jetta TDI (MT) and it was one of the cars in my 'Wishlist', if & when I upgraded. So if it feels this bad, then it must be BIG RED FLAG to all other owners.

After reading your report bro, I am extremely sceptical & anxious on taking my 1.6 GT TDI for this update from VW.

I don't want to Loose out THE REASON I bought this Car.

1.6 TDI has both hardware and software update. Quoting from the website. "In the 1.5-litre and 1.6-litre engines, a ‘flow transformer’ will be fitted in front of the air mass sensor. In addition, a software update will also be performed on these engines" .
I will go for software update next week and report any change in performance.

[Tanveer_2558]

Originally Posted by Vik0728

This is totally unacceptable and downright deplorable update from VW Tanveer and I shudder at what may happen to my GT if I went ahead with this update, after reading your experience

I have driven the Jetta TDI (MT) and it was one of the cars in my 'Wishlist', if & when I upgraded. So if it feels this bad, then it must be BIG RED FLAG to all other owners.

After reading your report bro, I am extremely sceptical & anxious on taking my 1.6 GT TDI for this update from VW.

I don't want to Loose out THE REASON I bought this Car.

TOTALLY! I feel cheated right now, This is the same car i test drove before i spent 20 Big ones on it, And Now the same car won't drive the same way! But since i don't want to get my car serviced else where other than the VW service this had to happen! I would have a sigh of relief once my car is remapped to the 175 + HP mark successfully!

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

Pete's, TOT etc would obviously have stock maps for Jetta with them. But it's always good when you have the read from your own car . Also by doing this exercise, the tuner can compare the files before and after update and we could know what change did VW really do.

Yes always, I feel 99% i shouldn't have any issues but well there is always that 1% there.

Pete's remaps have become very affordable now. They were the most expensive once upon a time and now they offer at dirt cheap price. Isn't it 14,250 Rs?

Yes, They have a Christmas offer going on for 14,250, Which comes close to 16,000 INR with Taxes, Which is really very very cheap considering their competitions prices are around 35,000 to 40,000 INR!

VW is very smart that way. Peak power and torque figures would be similar like stock. But the power-torque graph is different. Mostly at higher RPM, there is significant loss, especially torque.

Exactly, MID to Top End is like worst!

Originally Posted by Lemon

http://jalopnik.com/heres-how-much-h...r-d-1734341446


Link to the Dyno tested car with all wheels spinning and two wheels. In line with what Tanveer experienced after his cars software update.

Thanks for the link, Thats exactly how i felt while driving the car!

Originally Posted by spyder_p8

1.6 TDI has both hardware and software update. Quoting from the website. "In the 1.5-litre and 1.6-litre engines, a ‘flow transformer’ will be fitted in front of the air mass sensor. In addition, a software update will also be performed on these engines" .
I will go for software update next week and report any change in performance.

Do keep us posted on what changes you experience.

[Mission_PGPX]

Originally Posted by Tanveer_2558

I hope they do, 16k is a bang for the buck to bump the power over 170+ HP.

Indeed its a good idea, There is no way to avoid the update unless you plan to start getting your car serviced from outside and not the VW service centres.

just 16k? R u serious bro? I am then coming to mumbai ASAP. Last i asked them, they quoted 39500 for the remap of 190 hp.

The point that worries me is the service of the car after remap. If they keep checking / updating the software everytime they run the scan during service, then isnt it possible that they may overwrite pete's remap? if that happens, then its a HUGE blow. your thoughts.

[graaja]

Originally Posted by Mission_PGPX

...
The point that worries me is the service of the car after remap. If they keep checking / updating the software everytime they run the scan during service, then isnt it possible that they may overwrite pete's remap? if that happens, then its a HUGE blow. your thoughts.

I don't think it is viable for them to update the software everytime you take the car for service. I am sure the update is a one time process. Once they update the software, they will record this in their database, so that they will know the car has been already updated. After this there should be no update, unless they release some other new update to the engine software.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by Tanveer_2558

Push the car and you will feel the engine being restricted in some sort of way, It isn't pulling anywhere close to where it was before, Drivability becomes worst in 3rd gear, From 2800 RPM in 3rd gear the car seems to progress like a Naturally Aspirated engine which has a CVT Gearbox!! The progress is slow and the engine feels restricted

Thanks for the crystal-clear report, Tanveer! Much appreciated.

If I'd bought a VW Jetta after spending 20 big ones, I'd be mighty pissed. That sweet 2 liter diesel is what makes the car so competent. Post update, I'd end up with milder power delivery that I'd have to live with for the rest of its life.

What makes it worse is this was an intentional fraud from VW. Why should I have to pay the price for a cheating scandal?

It also means that 2016 Jettas sitting in showrooms don't drive like the old one.

Of course, enthusiasts like us have after-market remap options, but less than 1% of Jetta owners will ever consider that, especially risk averse owners who have cars still in the warranty period.

Originally Posted by Dr.Naren

I had read about a dyno comparo video of a VAG car before and after software update. Power-Torque graph was different. At higher RPM, there was drop.

Please share link. Thanks!

[Mohan Mathew A]

Damn. Yesterday i gave the go ahead to my BIL to get his Jetta updated after reading, so far, good things about the update from Jetta owners. He was being pestered by VW to get it updated and has been holding back till now.

The moment i saw this the first thing i did was to call him and tell him to hold on till there is more clarity.

I am not going to update my Vento too.

If the engine performance is gone, then 50% of the reason why we bought the car in the first place is gone.

[iliketurtles]

Originally Posted by GTO

If I'd bought a VW Jetta after spending 20 big ones, I'd be mighty pissed. That sweet 2 liter diesel is what makes the car so competent. What makes it worse is this was an intentional fraud from VW. Why should I have to pay the price for a cheating scandal?

That sums up the situation perfectly. What's far worse is that VW India has their head in the sand with regards to dubbing it what it is, calling it an upgrade. In no way or shape does this seem to be an upgrade. What it is is a recall, one done to rectify VW's cheating ways. Just because India has such a lax regulatory system, they can get away with it. The impact for VAG is far more severe overseas, as it should be. Makes one think twice before sticking with the VAG group, even though I've been happy with the product so far. Everyone slips up and makes mistakes, though not all of them are this massive. The key lies in how the elephant in the room is handled.

Originally Posted by Mohan Mathew A

The moment i saw this the first thing i did was to call him and tell him to hold on till there is more clarity.

I am not going to update my Vento too.

If the engine performance is gone, then 50% of the reason why we bought the car in the first place is gone.

Valid point, but the moment you send the car in for a service, the software update will get done before any diagnostics are run on the car. There seems to be little way of escaping it. I believe VW TDI owners are facing a Hobson's choice, one in which they will have to undergo this "update" sooner rather than later.

On another note, I'll be getting my Black Mamba back after its 40k KM servicing and the update this Saturday. Will give you guys a perspective on the DSG shod Jetta too, and let you know if the Black Mamba has been truly defanged (which I fear it has been).

[Mohan Mathew A]

Originally Posted by iliketurtles

Valid point, but the moment you send the car in for a service, the software update will get done before any diagnostics are run on the car.

I agree, there is no way of escaping it but we are lucky in a way since both the cars (my BIL's Jetta and my Vento) were serviced last month and there was no update done. So we have time in our hands before we have to go for next servicing so we can afford to wait and watch and hope things are sorted out.

[Tanveer_2558]

Originally Posted by Mission_PGPX

just 16k? R u serious bro? I am then coming to mumbai ASAP. Last i asked them, they quoted 39500 for the remap of 190 hp.

The point that worries me is the service of the car after remap. If they keep checking / updating the software everytime they run the scan during service, then isnt it possible that they may overwrite pete's remap? if that happens, then its a HUGE blow. your thoughts.

Check Private Message brother, The car just has to be updated once, Once they check out your car in their database as updated there wont be an issue.

Originally Posted by graaja

I don't think it is viable for them to update the software everytime you take the car for service. I am sure the update is a one time process. Once they update the software, they will record this in their database, so that they will know the car has been already updated. After this there should be no update, unless they release some other new update to the engine software.

Definitely its a one time process.

Originally Posted by GTO

Thanks for the crystal-clear report, Tanveer! Much appreciated.

Always my pleasure brother, I knew a lot of people had doubts regarding this, I myself did and could not find proper information about it anywhere.

If I'd bought a VW Jetta after spending 20 big ones, I'd be mighty pissed. That sweet 2 liter diesel is what makes the car so competent. Post update, I'd end up with milder power delivery that I'd have to live with for the rest of its life.

Seriously, For me the 2 TDI (140HP) + MT Combo was the ONLY reason i bought the car, Leave the features and looks aside, I test drove the car, I loved how she drove and i bought it & now its nowhere close to what i had test driven before buying.

What makes it worse is this was an intentional fraud from VW. Why should I have to pay the price for a cheating scandal?

Exactly, And what do they do to compensate? Tyre polish? Glass cleaner? Windshield washer fluid? Like really?

It also means that 2016 Jettas sitting in showrooms don't drive like the old one. Of course, enthusiasts like us have after-market remap options, but less than 1% of Jetta owners will ever consider that, especially risk averse owners who have cars still in the warranty period.

Most of the people don't even know what's a remap, They might be stuck with their underpowered car for the lifetime after the update

Originally Posted by Mohan Mathew A

Damn. Yesterday i gave the go ahead to my BIL to get his Jetta updated after reading, so far, good things about the update from Jetta owners. He was being pestered by VW to get it updated and has been holding back till now.

The moment i saw this the first thing i did was to call him and tell him to hold on till there is more clarity.

I am not going to update my Vento too.

If the engine performance is gone, then 50% of the reason why we bought the car in the first place is gone.

I am not sure if not updating the car is the way to go, We are in a situation where we would anyways have to get the car updated if we have to send the car to VW for servicing, Probably the only way to sneak out and stay out of getting updated is to start servicing your car outside the Authorised service centre and ignore calls from VW.

Originally Posted by Mohan Mathew A

I agree, there is no way of escaping it but we are lucky in a way since both the cars (my BIL's Jetta and my Vento) were serviced last month and there was no update done. So we have time in our hands before we have to go for next servicing so we can afford to wait and watch and hope things are sorted out.

Honestly, I knew power would take a hit, They are no 2 ways about it, Either get your car updated and then get it remapped or avoid VW service centres and keep driving your car as it is.


This my friends does not compensate even 0.01%.

[Dr.Naren]

My friend has got his New Polo 1.5 TDI remapped from TOT recently. His car has 3 more years warranty left and he cannot do away with this update. He has to go to VW one or other day and they would definitely update.

TOT has told him to get the update done and they would remap again without any extra charges.

When he goes to TOT, they will take a read again. I am very interested to see what VW has done with the map.

Majority of the guys abroad have reported "No change" post update. But there are few guys who have claimed loss of power, more clutter etc.

Edit :

TOT has already done quite a few cars post software update. I just had a word regarding the same. They have compared the maps and said that VW has "lowered/detuned" maps in various sectors. Difference wouldn't be prominent under normal driving. But if you time the car or dyno it, obviously it wouldn't be as fast or powerful as before.

[vishy76]

A very comprehensive report indeed tanveer sir. I am eagerly awaiting the remap of your car. Even I had the car recalled and feel the same symptoms. The engine gets very vocal past 3000 rpms. One question though.

Is there any change on the highway when it comes to the cruising ability?

As far as I remember the Jetta does 1650-1700 rpms at 100 kph. Any changes in these figures?

I haven't checked the car on the highway so cant say.

Regards
Vishy76

[graaja]

Originally Posted by vishy76

As far as I remember the Jetta does 1650-1700 rpms at 100 kph. Any changes in these figures?

The RPM vs. speed depends on the gear ratios in the gear box. A change to the engine map will not affect this. So, if the car cruised at 100 at 1700RPM, it would do the same post remap as well.

As the low end performance seems unaffected, there should be no difference in power delivery while cruising at 100.

[Dr.Naren]

@Tanveer : I had missed to ask you this question. Did you ever time your car, 0-100 or in gear acceleration before the update? If so, please do a run in present tune to compare.

Cheers!!

[anandharamanp]

Originally Posted by Tanveer_2558

Check Private Message brother, The car just has to be updated once, Once they check out your car in their database as updated there wont be an issue.


Definitely its a one time process.

Attachment 1583534

My Vento's ECU was updated with emission fix when i went in to get the strud mounting replaced under warranty without any information to me by Kun VW.

when i serviced my car after a month, for 15K service in Sundaram VW, the SA told me that when they plug in the vehicle to their system it will automatically provide an alert to them if the vehicle does not carry the emission fix. hence i assume it will be a one time fix if you continue to run the vehicle without any remapping but if you perform any remapping there may be an update on emission fix in your vehicle anytime you leave your vehicle for service.