[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

A tata engine will never fail you, trust me. But everything else(sensors,alternators, power steering pumps, etc.,) can fail anytime.
When our indigo was brand new(few thousand kms on the clock and few months), the power steering hose fell away.
The Safari 3.0 got stranded due to some sensor problem.

IMO, the term 'engine' as used by most people, is in the context of the entire aggregate. The whole package, sensors et al.
Perhaps a better way to define it would be whether a car will strand you somewhere, or the statistical possibility of that happening.
From that perspective, so far in our experience, a Scorpio is a better bet on reliability. And in my opinion, a Bolero is even better!

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Same thing here buddy, when your car fails you in a remote place it puts a fear in you.
..................
If I had a reliable small car in my garage, getting a Safari would have been much easier, but now, its tough.

How would that really help a person inclined to touring?
The small car then would be used for touring?

[svaid]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

As of today, the safari does not fit the bill, and is looking less and less attractive.
Part of it is fear of having just one vehicle which is a Tata, and part of it is fear of driving in narrow city bylanes.
When you have 2 cars one small, one huge, you are comfortable, that for that small in city drive you can take out the small car.

If I had a reliable small car in my garage, getting a Safari would have been much easier, but now, its tough.

Tsk1979 how much more could I agree with you. I have the same cloud of fears and inhibitions in my mind having a M800 2000 model. Heart says Safari but the mind says to <think more>. I have my own reservations about the current reliability of my 800 and thats somehow preventing me from taking the plunge. I wont like to have Safari as my only car and hence the dilemma. Lets see who wins this battle of the heart and the head.

Anyways will keep a close watch at your battle field

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by anupmathur

IMO, the term 'engine' as used by most people, is in the context of the entire aggregate. The whole package, sensors et al.
Perhaps a better way to define it would be whether a car will strand you somewhere, or the statistical possibility of that happening.
From that perspective, so far in our experience, a Scorpio is a better bet on reliability. And in my opinion, a Bolero is even better!



How would that really help a person inclined to touring?
The small car then would be used for touring?

Our 3.0 has broken down just one in 30K kms. The problem is frequent visits to TASS for niggling problems etc.,
So if you have a single car, visiting the service center often becomes a problem.
Of course the fear element is very much present in Tata, but I believe that if you can survive the first 5K kms, the vehicle will not let you down after that

Originally Posted by svaid

Tsk1979 how much more could I agree with you. I have the same cloud of fears and inhibitions in my mind having a M800 2000 model. Heart says Safari but the mind says to <think more>. I have my own reservations about the current reliability of my 800 and thats somehow preventing me from taking the plunge. I wont like to have Safari as my only car and hence the dilemma. Lets see who wins this battle of the heart and the head.

Anyways will keep a close watch at your battle field

Its always the battle of the head, the heart and the wallet.
Head says Grand Vitara(which is simply way way out of budget), Heart says Tata safari, Wallet/head combo says Scorpio .
If scorpio turns out to be expensive, after all the histronics, I will put in the ownership review of a Getz crdi or some Swift like thingy

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

If scorpio turns out to be expensive, after all the histronics, I will put in the ownership review of a Getz crdi or some Swift like thingy

After all histrionics, perhaps you could TD a Bolero. Before they come out with the CRDe version!

[svaid]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

If scorpio turns out to be expensive, after all the histronics, I will put in the ownership review of a Getz crdi or some Swift like thingy

Since we seem to be sailing on similar boats here; let me tell you while I am making a hullah about desire to purchase the Safari; family is pushing me for Santro considering cost and parking factors.
BTW why swift/Getz - if you have the wallet for Safari - you could be well off with a Logan/Fiesta/Verna for that matter.

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by anupmathur

After all histrionics, perhaps you could TD a Bolero. Before they come out with the CRDe version!

Scorpio is where we draw the line. Bolero is well, agricultural. However if it had a crdE....You giving me ideas

Originally Posted by svaid

Since we seem to be sailing on similar boats here; let me tell you while I am making a hullah about desire to purchase the Safari; family is pushing me for Santro considering cost and parking factors.
BTW why swift/Getz - if you have the wallet for Safari - you could be well off with a Logan/Fiesta/Verna for that matter.

Fiesta and Logan are underpowered on the highway. Verna is skittish. Getz is something which is very planted on the highway and inspires confidence.

[raj_5004]

a very interesting, funny, frank and unbiased review buddy.
kudos to you!
well, i wont comment on the scorpio or safari in this thread but this review was really interesting to read!

[adc]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Similar for a brand new safari, though heart says safari, in the mind there is a fear of having the safari as the only car.
If we had a second car like a santro etc., in good condition, safari would have been a no brainer, but since we don't, its scary to think that your only vehicle is a Tata.

When you have 2 cars one small, one huge, you are comfortable, that for that small in city drive you can take out the small car.

If I had a reliable small car in my garage, getting a Safari would have been much easier, but now, its tough.

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Getz is something which is very planted on the highway and inspires confidence.

You have some interesting observations here. When I wanted a SUV and found and signed on to this site [team-bhp], I was taken aback with the feedback on the Safari and TATA in general and the general conditions of first lot owners, it was a real dampner.

Anyway with a decision made after going with my heart bigtime, I was so paranoid that for my North Bengal tour the very next day in the remote jungle tracks when I used to get down where the track ended, let suppose to walk by foot to a water hole or to a watch tower, for around half hour or 45 mts I used to keep the ignition on - did not definitely want to get stranded in those leech infested places with my wife and our 3 year old son.

Those fears have gone just because of no hassles till now and nowadays I do switch off, and the 2.2 does both the city and tour job. One bad experience if I had these 8 months, definitely I would have been very wary.


So, even if you have a small city car that is reliable, you wont take that for a long distance tour journey and thus whatever SUV, if you buy, you will have that fear feeling of getting stuck, based upon your personal experiences and rightly so.

Thus it is better, by reasoning, that you should get a vehicle that you wont be paranoid about, thinking that it will stop any moment.


Thus Getz or Fusion are some interesting choices that you have - in fact one of these would most probably been my choice if no SUV for me. Looks like you will settle for the Getz.

But then reasoned myself like [again heart prevailing], this is the last decade of the SUV, roads and taxes and fuel price, and I was determined to experience a SUV before they become extinct or beyond my means.

Anyway it is really good reading your posts, giving absorbing insight to how your decision making thought process is going forward to result in a car in July.

[dadu]

Tanveer, although its difficult to let go of the past experiences but times have changed and with the changing times both M&M and TATA's have too.

Definitely with these new breed of products (Mhawk & 2.2l), they both have tried to remove the earlier problems from their experiences.

I cannot say who is the better of the lot in terms of their reliability as I have had similar bad experiences earlier with M&M (older models) as you.

The only advise i can give, is to choose the vehicle based on your needs and usability.

[headers]

good review tsk..how is the high speed handling..anyone?

What I'm asking is, is it ok to keep pushing the scorpio at 140 all along? all day?

[tsk1979]

Originally Posted by dadu

Tanveer, although its difficult to let go of the past experiences but times have changed and with the changing times both M&M and TATA's have too.

Definitely with these new breed of products (Mhawk & 2.2l), they both have tried to remove the earlier problems from their experiences.

I cannot say who is the better of the lot in terms of their reliability as I have had similar bad experiences earlier with M&M (older models) as you.

The only advise i can give, is to choose the vehicle based on your needs and usability.

I am not worried about breakdown on lonely highways as I think this problem is overstated, and a rare event.
However having to visit the service center for niggle problems is an issue. Noida does not have any good TASS, and I am not sure if they can maintain the vehicle. This is a big issue

Originally Posted by headers

good review tsk..how is the high speed handling..anyone?

What I'm asking is, is it ok to keep pushing the scorpio at 140 all along? all day?

I drove at 110 max, so no idea about 140 cruising. Anyways my cruise speeds will be 110-120 atmost

[dadu]

Please check the same for M&M also. Pay the A.S.S a visit, you'll not be surprised.

Whatever vehicle you buy, you will have to find a good A.S.S, closest to you would be (if not happy in NOIDA) , Mathura road (Mohan Coop Indust. area).

Originally Posted by tsk1979

I am not worried about breakdown on lonely highways as I think this problem is overstated, and a rare event.
However having to visit the service center for niggle problems is an issue. Noida does not have any good TASS, and I am not sure if they can maintain the vehicle. This is a big issue

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by headers

What I'm asking is, is it ok to keep pushing the scorpio at 140 all along? all day?

Certainly not advisable. The vehicle is not steady/well planted at those speeds. And where can you do such speeds in India?? All day?
Most importantly, the brakes are simply not adequate for safely cruising at those speeds.
120 kmph would be more realistic.

[condor]

dadu : Please check the same for M&M also. Pay the A.S.S a visit, you'll not be surprised.

Whatever vehicle you buy, you will have to find a good A.S.S, closest to you would be

Very true. An impressive test drive is not everything.

Of all the points mentioned about vehicles breaking down, there are one type I will not consider:

1. Break-down of any part during initial days of usage - in new car.
2. Break-down of any part during initial days of usage - immediately after replacement.

This specific time period is when a part can break-down. On similar lines, we are also not advised to take a car on a long trip soon after servicing.

Also, if a particular problem is not fix-able by one A.S.S / A.S.C, then it's probably the A.S.S fault. Not all service advisors are equal, and not all mechanics either.

Like @dadu said, you will still need to find a good A.S.S that you are comfortable with.


During normal usage,

[raj_5004]

hey TSK, i have experienced better service in mahindra compared to TATA. the most annoying thing i have heard whenever i have complained about anything to TASS is "its there in every car/its common/its usual"... common, i am not interested in what happens in other's cars, just get my car fixed up please! and still there was always some issues or the others cropping up. i tried changing the TASS but to no avail. moreover, the staff in mahindra is comparitively more friendly. not that they are all that good!
mahindra has its own share of problems, like non availabilty of spares but they are frank about it and when they say- "it will take a week or so but we will solve the problem", they do that!