[Tha'Red]

OK, shall share my experience over the last 3 weeks of having the Thar.

Being new here am asking this: where should i post it? continue on this thread or post it somewhere else in this forum? kindly provide me the URL/locaiton if it's somewhere else. thanks a lot.

[gthang]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear Mr.gthang - please read my exact words, which are - "in any case, many of "you" are still of the opinion that -----". I think that I have made myself very clear. Therefore, your statement in your long post reading "instead of like "yourself comparing M&M" to the neighbourhood workshop" is absolutely incorrect. Therefore, I request you to please refrain from making such comments, they achieve absolutely nothing and wastes everybody's reading time. In my opinion, this topic is closed.

You are always welcome to visit Nasik.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Mr. Behram Dhabhar,

Defeated by semantics. Pure genius. I concede defeat. My entire post was wrong because I understood your statement wrong.

Thank you for entertaining my discussion, and closing so quickly. Otherwise I would have had to waste everyone's time about several other issues I might have noticed.

@sreejeshmp, @discoverwild, @shankar.balan, @star_aqua, glad my post was entertaining to you all. Sadly, it remains that, entertainment. Not a hope for change.

@ex670c, Looks like all that hard work in your esteemed learning and understanding of M&M products , and all things mechanical, no small feat, will still be up-to-date.

Food for thought: When owner reviews and other praises start flowing in, of how excellent the engine feels and it blew modded Civics off the highways at 100+kmph, think about, God forbid, an accident in such a well engineered vehicle. Safety for lifestyle?

Signing out,
G.

[howler]

Originally Posted by gthang

Mr. Behram Dhabhar,

Defeated by semantics. Pure genius. I concede defeat. My entire post was wrong because I understood your statement wrong.

Thank you for entertaining my discussion, and closing so quickly. Otherwise I would have had to waste everyone's time about several other issues I might have noticed.

@sreejeshmp, @discoverwild, @shankar.balan, @star_aqua, glad my post was entertaining to you all. Sadly, it remains that, entertainment. Not a hope for change.

@ex670c, Looks like all that hard work in your esteemed learning and understanding of M&M products , and all things mechanical, no small feat, will still be up-to-date.

Food for thought: When owner reviews and other praises start flowing in, of how excellent the engine feels and it blew modded Civics off the highways at 100+kmph, think about, God forbid, an accident in such a well engineered vehicle. Safety for lifestyle?

Signing out,
G.

it really sucks, there is no point in putting anything across to the M&M reps that lurk around these forums. the moment you do they'll drown you out in self praise and list out the extremely complicated science of churning out rattle traps like the thar. my family has been using M&M products out of lack of choice for decades; so i know the futility in even attempting to question such folk. buy it if you like it or if you dont just sit back and watch the M&M gents heap praise on a sub-standard vehicle.
cheers

[DHABHAR.BEHRAM]

Hi Gthang,

Its a JEEP Thing .

The Z-Axis "beading was introduced in the 1998c, after 12years they slotted the mounting holes and made it adjustable.

I wouldn't mind, if they were drilled into the body, I just hope, that the bolt is being held by a nut and not the thread tap in the body.

Regards,

Arka

Dear Arka - please read my post on Z axis - "word by word - line by line". There is a dimension of "818 mm" mentioned there. The "Z axis beading" as defined by you does not have this dimension. Also, I have mentioned that spot welded nuts are assembled on the body before CED, let alone painting, so the question of holding the bolt by a thread tap in the body does not arise. Also, soft top upgradation is done with a purpose of equipping the vehicle with AC which everybody wants today and we have mentioned that the vehicle at point of sale is AC ready. Of course I will give all details shortly. Canopy change is not done due to CAD because CAD cannot think. . It is done due to CS (common sense) that if AC is required, that canopy has to perform a completely different function of keeping most of the cold air inside the car! The AC which everybody wants today in Thar CRDe is not required in Thar DI category so the canopy of Thar DI is different and I do not think it is inferior in any way, it is just suitable for that application. We can easily give CRDe canopy in DI but people will not pay extra for it, believe you me, India market is price crazy.

Therefore, with greatest personal regard for all your hard work and your esteemed learning and understanding of M&M products and all things mechanical, I once again wish you all the best as you will always remain upto date and my mentor also.

Dear gthang - Semantics cannot replace reality. I don't believe in semantics. Thar CRDe meets all current CMVR norms in its category. It would be prudent to leave it at that, isn't it? .

One thing is for sure and I have no hesitancy in saying so - we have put our heart, soul, passion and genuine hard / smart work into getting this vehicle to where it is now. We have done this project as if it is our own baby. We are committed to ensure that it succeeds, come what may. Projects in big companies normally don't happen like this. They happen in conference rooms where guys sit and make excel files, hoard information as a source of power but the passion gets missed. Thar CRDe is certainly not the greatest thing under the sun but at least appreciate it for whatever it is worth? At least somebody did excactly what all of us wanted and had in our subconscious minds for as long as we as off road enthusiats can remember? You cannot deny this fact. Also, I am one of you only, yaar! I had it in the back of my mind ever since Scorpio was introduced in 2002. I waited 9 years. So, my dear Saar, please. .

I look forward to Black Raven's / Tha'Red's comments with an open mind and as one more source for us to improve something and there is nothing wrong in mentioning so. The greatest little dirty secret in business is lack of candor. Talk, damn it! Only good can come out of it if you talk with a positive attitude. Also, reward the person who comes to you with bad news. Accepting that a problem exists is the first step towards solving it. So, there is nothing wrong in saying that development is a continuous process.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

[AWD]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

we have mentioned that the vehicle at point of sale is AC ready. Of course I will give all details shortly. The AC which everybody wants today in Thar CRDe is not required in Thar DI category so the canopy of Thar DI is different and I do not think it is inferior in any way, it is just suitable for that application. We can easily give CRDe canopy in DI but people will not pay extra for it, believe you me, India market is price crazy.

A few points from my side:

1) Waiting for the Details of A.C. on Thar Crdi.

2) I won't mind A.C. on Thar DI. Is it also A.C. ready?

3) On Indian market being price crazy, Im surprised by the comment form people who easily got away with Thar Crdi's atrocious pricing & here in India. What more would one want!

[Fortuner71]

Originally Posted by Tha'Red

OK, shall share my experience over the last 3 weeks of having the Thar.

Being new here am asking this: where should i post it? continue on this thread or post it somewhere else in this forum? kindly provide me the URL/locaiton if it's somewhere else. thanks a lot.

post your initial review here : Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports - Team-BHP

[aadix]

we have mentioned that the vehicle at point of sale is AC ready. Of course I will give all details shortly.

waiting for this keenly, DB sir.

also any ownership reviews coming up by the members who bought the thar? (leaving aside the hyd thar review) btw what's the update with speedy's thar?

[gthang]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

Dear gthang - Semantics cannot replace reality. I don't believe in semantics. Thar CRDe meets all current CMVR norms in its category. It would be prudent to leave it at that, isn't it? .

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

Mr. Behram Dhabhar,

Am I to believe that you have magically incorporated crumple zones, side impact protection and other recent passenger safety developments into that body which was designed for purely utilitarian purpose several decades ago? Wow!!

Or, Is Indian CMVR rules so far behind in passenger safety? Cannot be, can it? Not with that mandatory headlamp leveling switch and all that good stuff.

Oh, wait a minute. In it's category!!

Damn. Lost it in the semantics again. Maybe I should stop believing in it too for better clarity.

Hard to sign out. Maybe should disconnect radio.

[headers]

Originally Posted by gthang

Food for thought: When owner reviews and other praises start flowing in, of how excellent the engine feels and it blew modded Civics off the highways at 100+kmph, think about, God forbid, an accident in such a well engineered vehicle. Safety for lifestyle?

Signing out,

@G...: Wait. the THAR "lyfestyle" will soon be out with

1. ABS + EBD + TC [One pays 8L on road so better get these features]

Originally Posted by gthang

Am I to believe that you have magically incorporated crumple zones, side impact protection and other recent passenger safety developments into that body which was designed for purely utilitarian purpose several decades ago? Wow!!
...
Hard to sign out. Maybe should disconnect radio.

2. The Jeep thing is so strong that it does not require crumple zones Sir.

3. The aesthetics have to improve leaps and bounds.

4. The offset steering should GO

5. Need Slicker GB, lighter clutch, better switchgear, vents etc etc.

@MM folks, please do not compare with what you gave before, but with what competition gives the world over. India is a monopolistic market for you and it will not give you the correct answer.

[gthang]

Originally Posted by headers

2. The Jeep thing is so strong that it does not require crumple zones Sir.

@headers,

Sorry, could not make out if that was in jest.

I used to think that crumple zones were designed to weaken the body in an engineered manner so as to absorb the impact, deform,and try to reduce occupant injury due to inertia/momentum (??!), during a collision.

Has there been an update?

If in jest, yeah I fully agree with you because Jeeps are TOUGH, man.

G.

[download2live]

I fail to understand this criticism.
Its always easier to sit on a fence and crow about the faults. It is tougher to create.

What BD sir has done is the best given the resources given to him. And he has tried to keep the cost also as low as possible.

We are never going to be satisfied. Higher quality comes with higher prices. If the prices were increased we will start crowing about MM doing a Kizashi or Aria.

Lets us appreciate what Mr BD has done under the commercial constrains.

[sinhsha]

Took test drive of Thar in Kolkata yesterday.
Was following all discussions about this product from the inception in internet including all threads about the same in team bhp.
Started saving money from early 2010 for this (including one away assignment to earn extra).
30 minutes of drive and I have 7 lakhs INR on disposal to spend on so many other things.
1. Interior quality is liveable, but hard edges all around is pathetic and risky. I don't love any vehicle so much that I would risk getting cut on fingers of mine and my wife's every now and then while driving it.
2. It's no way AC ready by any reasonable standard. Yes AC can be fitted, and same is true for TATA 1210 SE truck also. Ducting piping geometry not thought about or at least not known by any dealer yet.
3. Took test drive on a PDI vehicle already sold to somebody(speedometer disconnected), a sure trust breaker. I don't want to understand economy scale of mahindra and dealers but I care about what I get for what I pay.
4. Lack of ABS in such a powerful, high GC comparatively light vehicle is simply too much adventure on road risking owners' and several other road users life.
5. On a PDI vehicle there was too much rattles to enjoy the drive.

Suggestions required:
Which are the best ways to spend 7L INR on "lifestyle".

[pjbiju]

Originally Posted by gthang

...
Or, Is Indian CMVR rules so far behind in passenger safety? Cannot be, can it? Not with that mandatory headlamp leveling switch and all that good stuff.
...

Aa far as I know, there are still no CMVR regulations/requirements on crash tests for vehicles sold in India. So we see all these crumble zones and other safety features in cars that are already launched in other countries where those are mandated or in vehicles designed in India but are designated to be exported to countries where such regulations exist.

So it looks like these are not required in South Africa and Italy where the Thar is being sold.

p.s. It is quite obvious that the big bosses at Mahindra is least bothered about the success/failure of this vehicle. They probably gave into the demands of DB to create such a vehicle, knowing fully well that the Indian consumer does not have much choice here and that the R&D cost of the vehicle itself was peanuts. So why should they bother? So all our woes should be addressed to Anand Mahindra and Pawan Goenka. Write them some nice letters and see if they even read them.

[Tha'Red]

Originally Posted by DHABHAR.BEHRAM

I look forward to Black Raven's / Tha'Red's comments with an open mind and as one more source for us to improve something and there is nothing wrong in mentioning so. The greatest little dirty secret in business is lack of candor. Talk, damn it! Only good can come out of it if you talk with a positive attitude. Also, reward the person who comes to you with bad news. Accepting that a problem exists is the first step towards solving it. So, there is nothing wrong in saying that development is a continuous process.

Best regards,

Behram Dhabhar

BD Sir,

Have posted my initial experience under Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports - Team-BHP. Should get published soon. Have captured my thoughts and expressed them with candor. Hope it helps you improve the product.

I am very sure you have done this project as if it were your own baby. Kudos to you and your team. But, when my Thar baby gets delivered to me, I expect high quality overall, period. That is missing in many aspects I have mentioned and hope future THARs have them addressed. Won't need much effort, but will need a lot of mind.

[Aroy]

Originally Posted by sinhsha

Suggestions required:
Which are the best ways to spend 7L INR on "lifestyle".

1. Get a second hand 4x4 Scorpio
2. Throw out all the seats and replace them with 4 electrically adjustable ones
3. Add a custom AC with two compressors, one for front and one for back
4. Beef up the brakes and change the rear ones to disks
5. Add ABS if possible
6. Lastly paint it in some wild colour scheme

You get a DESI lifestyle vehicle!

Otherwise forget vehicles and give your self a top-of-the-line Cruise Holiday!