[balenoed_]

I did a tyre rotation after about 12K Kms for my Scorpio. Also done along with were alignment, balancing.

I didn't notice it while taking delivery couple of days back, but yesterday when I hit the highway is when I noticed that the steering is not straight. It is about 3-4 degrees to the left when the vehicle goes straight. When I correct the steering to make the wheel straight, the vehcile veers to one side.

What exactly went wrong? Now I need to find another work shop as I am out of town where the guy who did it. (Tyre Empire, HSR). It was all fine before I got this rotation, alignment done.

[zeng]

Originally Posted by heysac

I have been trying to get the alignment corrected after suspension overhaul but the car seems to be out aligned. I am attaching the most recent readings after alignment but the car seems to be going to the left a little now. The running is almost nil so hard to figure out perfectly since no road nearby is good. What (tolerance in reading) should we be pushing the technician to get a good alignment? Attachment 2246842

I suspect your sense of car wheels being mis-aligned is probably valid and it is most likely caused/influenced by Rear alignment angles/readings which are absent in your picture.

Imho it is a very prevalent mistake among the vast majority of alignment jobs done in tyre shops without checking and/or displaying camber and toe angles of Rear axle.

The front positive cambers though within specs/green will likely render your Swift being uncomfortable in 'fast' cornering.

[zeng]

Originally Posted by balenoed_

I did a tyre rotation after about 12K Kms for my Scorpio. Also done along with were alignment, balancing.

I didn't notice it while taking delivery couple of days back, but yesterday when I hit the highway is when I noticed that the steering is not straight. It is about 3-4 degrees to the left when the vehicle goes straight. When I correct the steering to make the wheel straight, the vehcile veers to one side.

What exactly went wrong? Now I need to find another work shop as I am out of town where the guy who did it. (Tyre Empire, HSR). It was all fine before I got this rotation, alignment done.

Without Front and Rear axles alignment details/sceenshots, no conclusive comments can be established .......
assuming the aligner machine is accurate and procedure was properly followed/applied.

[balenoed_]

Originally Posted by zeng

Without Front and Rear axles alignment details/sceenshots, no conclusive comments can be established .......
assuming the aligner machine is accurate and procedure was properly followed/applied.

I do not have the report that was given when it was done the first time as I am out of that city now.

But now I took the vehicle to where I am located currently and showed them the problem. They checked on it and observed this below in their system, and said they could see some error:



I do not know how to interpret the report, but just sharing here.

And they fixed it and now the vehicle is fine. I do not see that steering mis-alignment problem any more. Did those guys who did rotation-alignment mess it up?

[zeng]

Originally Posted by balenoed_

I do not have the report that was given when it was done the first time as I am out of that city now.

But now I took the vehicle to where I am located currently and showed them the problem. They checked on it and observed this below in their system, and said they could see some error:

Attachment 2248323

I do not know how to interpret the report, but just sharing here.

And they fixed it and now the vehicle is fine. I do not see that steering mis-alignment problem any more. Did those guys who did rotation-alignment mess it up?

First let us assume the displayed Front alignment readings here is After and not Before alignment (Correct me if this assumption is wrong).

As no Rear alignment numbers are provided, I would make another assumption that the Rear cambers and Toes are balanced between Left and Right hand sides and their actual numbers are sort of within typical OEM ranges etc for the sake of further deliberations.

(Btw does this Mahindra has IRS Independent Rear Suspensions? May somebody knowledgeable kindly clarify?)

Basing on the 2 assumptions made above, the displayed Front toes of Left +0°16' and Right +0°14' (in red) are helpful in steady and straight ahead driving conditions, but steering effort is less responsive in turning to either sides, in relation to specification range.

Note: These toe readings are not in compliance with limits/ranges provided here.

However do be mindful of potential faster rate of Front tyre edge wear in say, 10 to 20k kms of usage in relation to factory specs.

Right Front camber is out of specs and rather undesirable for it promotes veering to Right whilst driving straight ahead on highways (during the duration of without input of steering effort ) , unbalanced rear cambers etc.

Does Mahindra Scorpio Front MacPherson struts come without Eccentric camber bolts from Factory for stock adjustment of Front Camber?

Right Front Caster is off and Factory typically doesn't provide for adjustment without use of aftermarket coil-over/strut assembly, if available in the market.

Just my 2 cents.

Note:
If this latest alignment was carried out without another tyre rotation, then previous tyre rotation wasn't a problem but previous Front alignment readings was.

Note2:
What is the Model Year of this Scorpio?

[balenoed_]

Originally Posted by zeng

First let us assume the displayed Front alignment readings here is After and not Before alignment (Correct me if this assumption is wrong).

Let me list down the steps done so as to not cause you an incovenience in diagnosing. And appreciate your insights!

• Vehicle done ~12K Kms. No alignment issues whatsoever
• Took for the tyre rotation to a work shop in Bangalore (tyre empire, HSR). And along with they did the alignment, balancing etc.
• The next day I hit the highway for an outstation trip and then is when I noticed the steering wheel doesn't stay straight
• Reached my destination and reported/checked it up at another workshop
• They put the vehicle on the station and looked up at the readings. The Screen shot that I posted in previous post. And said, there are errors in it
• They did adjustments in the front alignment and got the readings correct. And I also test drove to find that the steering alignment is correct now. No tyre rotation or balancing done this time.
• Attached below the report after the corrections done by the second workshop

Originally Posted by zeng

Does Mahindra Scorpio Front MacPherson struts come without Eccentric camber bolts from Factory for stock adjustment of Front Camber?

I'll need to some expert help here to answer this as I am yet to learn the technical things of the Scorpio

BHPian Kosfactor, you around?

Originally Posted by zeng

What is the Model Year of this Scorpio?

2020 Dec. An year old as we speak.

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by zeng

(Btw does this Mahindra has IRS Independent Rear Suspensions? May somebody knowledgeable kindly clarify?)


Does Mahindra Scorpio Front MacPherson struts come without Eccentric camber bolts from Factory for stock adjustment of Front Camber?

Note2:
What is the Model Year of this Scorpio?

3rd generation chassis (similar to what you see in current Thar).

This is a Jeep with a Wagon Body, double wishbone front and live axle rear with Multilink. It does have camber bolts, earlier models needed shims to adjust.

You can see the Chassis in the beginning of this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epJqtMGk4Jk

The specific vehicle of BHPian Balenoed is a later version with more powerful engine.

EDIT : Just to add, you can get the computer to '0' deviation on all alignment parameters but that does not mean the vehicle should track straight. This is a skilled job, needs an experienced alignment technician.

[zeng]

Originally Posted by balenoed_

Let me list down the steps done so as to not cause you an incovenience in diagnosing. And appreciate your insights!

• Vehicle done ~12K Kms. No alignment issues whatsoever
• Took for the tyre rotation to a work shop in Bangalore (tyre empire, HSR). And along with they did the alignment, balancing etc.
• The next day I hit the highway for an outstation trip and then is when I noticed the steering wheel doesn't stay straight
• Reached my destination and reported/checked it up at another workshop
• They put the vehicle on the station and looked up at the readings. The Screen shot that I posted in previous post. And said, there are errors in it
• They did adjustments in the front alignment and got the readings correct. And I also test drove to find that the steering alignment is correct now. No tyre rotation or balancing done this time.
• Attached below the report after the corrections done by the second workshop

Attachment 2248345

Thank you for the concise clarification and subsequent Alignment No. 2 upload.

My comments in previous Post #425 (https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/tyre-...ml#post5220015 (Everything about Wheel Alignment: Post your queries here)) still applies generally in between (post read out) Alignment No. 1 at Bangalore workshop and (before read out) Alignment No. 2 at another workshop, which is a short duration of about a week.

I would speculate the Bangalore workshop has not properly secured or locked the steering wheel (against driver seat) before completing the Front Toes adjustment works, thus leading to your observation of off-centre steering wheel position on straight ahead driving condition.

With regards to the after read out of this current Alignment No. 2, the rear cambers and rear toes were un-touched by this second workshop as they are basically quite square and balanced.

(Thanks to @Kosfactor for enlightening Scorpio as having Rear IRS in Multi-link and Front being a double-wishbone suspension system)

The undesirable Right Front camber of +0°26' was well adjusted to the desirable negative camber of -0°07', leading to better or more steady cornering to the Left at 'fast' road speed and pre-empting outside edge tyre wear.

Front Total toes of +0°31' was reduced to -0°06' which is favourable for reducing Front tyre wear rate and off-road riding.

However, on highway high speed straight ahead driving condition you may monitor for 'light' steering wheel feel which may require more steering input continuously to improve on steering steadiness and stability. Also be wary of potentially (ever so slight, if perceptible) veering to the Right.

Assumption being all steering components are in good shape as well as no tyre-related deficiency in terms of tyre conicity.

Your feedback would be much appreciated.

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

3rd generation chassis (similar to what you see in current Thar).

This is a Jeep with a Wagon Body, double wishbone front and live axle rear with Multilink. It does have camber bolts, earlier models needed shims to adjust.

You can see the Chassis in the beginning of this video.

https://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=epJqtMGk4Jk

The specific vehicle of BHPian Balenoed is a later version with more powerful engine.

EDIT : Just to add, you can get the computer to '0' deviation on all alignment parameters but that does not mean the vehicle should track straight. This is a skilled job, needs an experienced alignment technician.

Thanks @Kosfactor for the rather informative Youtube on Scorpio. I suppose both Front and Rear toes are adjustable with factory toe-links.

If I may ask, is Front camber adjustable through Eccentric camber bolt? If so, is it on Upper Wishbone or Lower Wishbone?

What about Rear camber adjustment mechanism?

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by zeng

Thanks @Kosfactor for the rather informative Youtube on Scorpio. I suppose both Front and Rear toes are adjustable with factory toe-links.

If I may ask, is Front camber adjustable through Eccentric camber bolt? If so, is it on Upper Wishbone or Lower Wishbone?

What about Rear camber adjustment mechanism?

Front lower arm will have the camber bolts for adjustment.

Rear is live axle with multilink (Solid axle like a truck \jeep- Banjo type to be exact for this model) - no adjustments as such possible. However if the tracking is poor, the bushes, control arms or frame needs to be fixed to correct the alignment - A large heavy hammer in other words is useful here!

[zeng]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Front lower arm will have the camber bolts for adjustment.

Rear is live axle with multilink (Solid axle like a truck \jeep- Banjo type to be exact for this model) - no adjustments as such possible. However if the tracking is poor, the bushes, control arms or frame needs to be fixed to correct the alignment - A large heavy hammer in other words is useful here!

Thanks for clarifying Scorpio Rear live axle as having no factory/stock adjustment for Rear camber and toe without a heavy hammer/mod.

[heysac]

I drive a Swift (P) 2010 with 45k on odo. I took the car for alignment several times after suspension overhauling since I wasn't very satisfied. The guy doesn't show me the results of alignment for rear wheels and says it is not required. He says we might have to rotate the wheels if there is still an issue. Why is that so?

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by heysac

I drive a Swift (P) 2010 with 45k on odo. I took the car for alignment several times after suspension overhauling since I wasn't very satisfied. The guy doesn't show me the results of alignment for rear wheels and says it is not required. He says we might have to rotate the wheels if there is still an issue. Why is that so?

What are you not satisfied with? What issue are you facing?

[heysac]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

What are you not satisfied with? What issue are you facing?

The car pulls a little to one side. Everytime I take the car for alignment, it pulls to the other side since the guy fixes it a little. I haven't been able to take it to the highway after the latest iteration but can feel it pulling a little on some smooth surfaces. I want to understand whether it is common practice to not focus on rear wheel alignment readings?

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by heysac

The car pulls a little to one side. Everytime I take the car for alignment, it pulls to the other side since the guy fixes it a little. I haven't been able to take it to the highway after the latest iteration but can feel it pulling a little on some smooth surfaces. I want to understand whether it is common practice to not focus on rear wheel alignment readings?

Rear wheel alignment is not possible with cars with fixed rear suspension. 99% of cars do not have rear wheel alignment possibility. Even at the front, only the toe can be adjusted. Caster and Camber are fixed

Since you are in Bangalore, please take the car to a reputed alignment center like Madhu's and explain the problem to them. They might be able to solve the problem or atleast guide you on what is the problem

[zeng]

Originally Posted by heysac

I drive a Swift (P) 2010 with 45k on odo. I took the car for alignment several times after suspension overhauling since I wasn't very satisfied. The guy doesn't show me the results of alignment for rear wheels and says it is not required. He says we might have to rotate the wheels if there is still an issue. Why is that so?

This alignment guy is simply incompetent.

Run, fast and away from him.

Seek the service of another alignment shop of your choice.

Always insist on a print out copy (or camera photo) from the alignment shop of the full results of Before and After that shows both Front and Rear axle tyre readings.

Originally Posted by heysac

The car pulls a little to one side. Everytime I take the car for alignment, it pulls to the other side since the guy fixes it a little. I haven't been able to take it to the highway after the latest iteration but can feel it pulling a little on some smooth surfaces. I want to understand whether it is common practice to not focus on rear wheel alignment readings?

Car pulls to Left side or Right?

No.
Instead it is common to always measure the rear wheel alignment readings as well in your context, never mind whether it is a Rear live/fixed axle or Rear torsion beam design.