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Old 19th March 2013, 04:11   #151
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Default Re: SCOOP : Detailed Reva NXR pictures. UPDATE: Badged as the "E2O"

It is a very good car for urban use only, where you need to have access to charging points say at home and the office. Use that judiciously and you should never run low on power. The biggest concern is the practical DTE with complete use of modcons like the ac, music system etc. Even taking this vehicle on a highway run is impossible because you need to ensure access to charging points, the biggest drawback with electric cars. Once that problem is resolved, along with a much better range, I can see myself buying an electric car rather than a petrol car. Cheaper, easier and if planned well, far more practical
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Old 19th March 2013, 07:19   #152
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Default Re: SCOOP : Detailed Reva NXR pictures. UPDATE: Badged as the "E2O"

So, finally the E2O is out. I have caught this one many a times around Hosur during the tests. It is reasonably large, looks attractive and goes like stink for an electric car.

Looks to be very good option when compared to a petrol automatic for city use. Any idea what will be landing cost in Kochi? I think the 5.9L Delhi price is heavily subsidized.
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Old 19th March 2013, 09:07   #153
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Default Re: SCOOP : Detailed Reva NXR pictures. UPDATE: Badged as the "E2O"

Usage of Li-ion battery is a brilliant idea but of course at a cost. Happen to read in times of india that Mahindra is offering a warranty for 3 years/60,000 kms which is a good thing. Also, they have mentioned the battery kit is priced at a staggering 1.5 lacs !!!
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Old 19th March 2013, 10:08   #154
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Default Re: SCOOP : Detailed Reva NXR pictures. UPDATE: Badged as the "E2O"

Quote:
Originally Posted by sajusherief View Post
Usage of Li-ion battery is a brilliant idea but of course at a cost. Happen to read in times of india that Mahindra is offering a warranty for 3 years/60,000 kms which is a good thing. Also, they have mentioned the battery kit is priced at a staggering 1.5 lacs !!!

I suspect Mahindra will offer a extended waranty on the batteries. Rs.1.5 lakhs for Lithium Ion is pretty good. But, they should provide atleast 5yr waranty on battery.
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Old 19th March 2013, 10:14   #155
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Originally Posted by deetjohn View Post
So, finally the E2O is out. I have caught this one many a times around Hosur during the tests. It is reasonably large, looks attractive and goes like stink for an electric car.

Looks to be very good option when compared to a petrol automatic for city use. Any idea what will be landing cost in Kochi? I think the 5.9L Delhi price is heavily subsidized.
My auditor tells me that govt. has provided another incentive for Electric vehicles.

You can depreciate 80% of the value per year, which means you can almost write off the cost of car in just two years. At 30% income tax rate, this can be a huge saving in tax out-go.

So, if you buy a car at Rs.6lacs, your tax saving first year alone will be Rs. 1,44,000/-

Sadly, this is currently available only to companies. But, if your company can offer a company car purchase program, where you can buy the car through company and transfer it to your name in 2 years, then you'll save almost Rs. 1,80,000 in taxes alone!

I also hope Govt. will extend the subsidy it was offering in 2010. That can bring down the car price by about Rs. 80,000/-

-----

Here is a car depreciation chart for those who are interested. As you can see the EV can be practically written off within couple of years, while Fuel cars retain substantial value in books even after 7-8 years!!

Buying a E2O through your company can be an excellent tax planning tool, if you intend to stick with the company for more than a year!!

PETROL/DIESEL CAR: 20% Depreciation/year
Car value: INR 600,000

(Depreciation/Residual Value)
1st year: 120,000/480,000
2nd year: 96,000/384,000
3rd year: 76,800/307,200
4th year: 61,440/245,760
5th year: 49,152/196,608
6th year: 39,322/157,286
7th year: 31,457/125,829
8th Year: 25,166/100,663
9th year: 20,133/80,531


Electric CAR : 80% depreciation/year
Car value: INR 600,000

(Depreciation/Residual)
1st year: 480,000/120,000
2nd year: 96,000/24,000
3rd year: 19,200/4,800
4th year: 3,840/960
5th year: 768/ 192
6th year: 154/ 38
7th year: 31/8
8th Year: 6/2
9th year: 1/0

Last edited by Rehaan : 8th April 2013 at 16:42. Reason: Merging into 1 post, since we'll be linking to it from the Official Review. Thanks :)
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Old 19th March 2013, 10:45   #156
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Default Re: SCOOP : Detailed Reva NXR pictures. UPDATE: Badged as the "E2O"

It's a good beginning, however the EVs have their own limitations like you can't go long distances without worrying about battery getting completely drained.They are good for only city runabouts. I don't know how the charging points will work, would you have a car being parked for 5 hours to charge fully, as one hour charge is sufficient for charging only 20% of battery.How will the charging station make money? Filling petrol or diesel takes max 2 minutes or so.

As far as cost goes, EVs can be a viable option if priced around Rs 3.5 lacs. Battery cost is not indicated so that is another unknown. Even life of battery is a grey area which would be clear only after a few years, unless Mahindra offers a replacement guarantee.

How does the subsidy works? I think the government can promote EVs by levying minimum excise and sales tax on them. Does the govt provide monetary benefit to the manufecturer to subsidize the cost on each vehicle?

Last edited by rock75 : 19th March 2013 at 10:48.
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Old 19th March 2013, 11:31   #157
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Default Re: SCOOP : Detailed Reva NXR pictures. UPDATE: Badged as the "E2O"

While I can appreciate the fact that it's a green car which will help combat the problem of fuel usage, I can still see this car being next in line to be a flop after the Reva.
The e20's specifications aren't good enough. That plastic body and an 81kmph top speed spec won't cut it in the market.
To top it off, Reva always design cars that look like a gizmo rather than a car. Their cars don't look 'normal'; their designs are reminiscent of the cars in Demolition Man.

It's disappointing; it looks like the progress has been minimal. The Reva offered 65 kmph and this was 6-7 years ago. Whilst gasoline based cars are getting more powerful by the day amongst the relevant segments, the Reva series hasn't caught up.

Eventually a car will have to offer value-for-money to people to consider buying it, in spite of the low fuel costs most of us probably wouldn't buy the e20.

Can Mahindra extrapolate the specs and come up with a 10-11 lakh car with a top speed of say 120-140, built with sheet metal? A lot of the cost can be recovered with the low fuel costs so I suppose people with a budget of 7-8 lakhs will consider this option.
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Old 19th March 2013, 11:43   #158
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Default Re: SCOOP : Detailed Reva NXR pictures. UPDATE: Badged as the "E2O"

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Originally Posted by dozer View Post

It's disappointing; it looks like the progress has been minimal. The Reva offered 65 kmph and this was 6-7 years ago. Whilst gasoline based cars are getting more powerful by the day amongst the relevant segments, the Reva series hasn't caught up.
I won't comment on the 'progress' till I have actually used E2O. But, Reva was indeed a disappointment in terms of interior trim etc. And what I have seen of E2O interior is rather good. Good ICE, comfy seating and Good air conditioning.

The problem with EVs is indeed range. It is not meant for folks who travel more than 60-70km a day. It is ideal for city commute of about 30km in one direction.

EVs won't get large range at a good pricepoint, as currently batteries are the single biggest expense.

Compare this to your mobile. You charge it in the night, use it for 10 calls of 5mins each in day and it lasts you the entire day. But, if you continously talked for 2-3hours, then it will deplete the battery rather fast.

EV is not a Gizmo, it is another way of looking at 'URBAN' transportation.
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Old 19th March 2013, 12:17   #159
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Default Re: SCOOP : Detailed Reva NXR pictures. UPDATE: Badged as the "E2O"

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Originally Posted by sajusherief View Post
Usage of Li-ion battery is a brilliant idea but of course at a cost. Happen to read in times of india that Mahindra is offering a warranty for 3 years/60,000 kms which is a good thing. Also, they have mentioned the battery kit is priced at a staggering 1.5 lacs !!!
Do you have the URL that says battery kit is just 1.5Lakhs? Please share.
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Old 19th March 2013, 12:41   #160
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Default Re: SCOOP : Detailed Reva NXR pictures. UPDATE: Badged as the "E2O"

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Originally Posted by hkollar View Post
Do you have the URL that says battery kit is just 1.5Lakhs? Please share.
TOI Link

Quote:
Chetan Maini, the man behind Reva and now the Chief of Strategy & Technology of Mahindra Reva, said that the car does not require regular servicing but a single check-up annually that can be done at home. The battery on the car has a three-year or 60,000 kms warranty and at Rs 1.5 lakh, it is the only major source of expenditure once it comes up for replacement.
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Old 19th March 2013, 12:59   #161
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Default Re: SCOOP : Detailed Reva NXR pictures. UPDATE: Badged as the "E2O"

Pretty steep pricing for a weird looking automobile. The headlights are too big for this size of a car, the taillights too small and the overall proportions very disproportionate. If I had to describe it in one word, I'd call it "Quirky".

Somewhere there is a Mercedes Smart car which indeed looks "smart" for a small electric car. And then there's this Mahindra E2O
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Old 19th March 2013, 12:59   #162
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Default Re: SCOOP : Detailed Reva NXR pictures. UPDATE: Badged as the "E2O"

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Originally Posted by hkollar View Post
Do you have the URL that says battery kit is just 1.5Lakhs? Please share.
Here you go - from today's TOI. It says - "The battery on the car has a three-year or 60,000 kms warranty and at Rs 1.5 lakh, it is the only major source of expenditure once it comes up for replacement." I am sure M&M will offer an extended warranty. Mr. Maini was very particular yesterday about the battery life being 3 times more than the existing Reva, which indicates a battery life of ~6 years.

On all the speculations and criticism - I highly appreciate M&M's attempt at opening up an avenue towards a paradigm shift leading to a whole new way of urban commuting, something that will change not only the way we commute but the way we think, the way we embrace our responsibility towards saving this planet which is inching towards a choking death everyday! As others have already quoted, this EV is much more competitively priced as compared to some of the other EVs being promoted around the world. Trying to compare it with other "hot" hatches/sedans in terms of speed/performance is not only naive but not called for at all! IMHO, this is a very good package - what remains to be seen is the battery life aspect in real-world-usage.
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Old 19th March 2013, 13:46   #163
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Default Re: SCOOP : Detailed Reva NXR pictures. UPDATE: Badged as the "E2O"

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Originally Posted by 9thsphinx View Post
Pretty steep pricing for a weird looking automobile. The headlights are too big for this size of a car, the taillights too small and the overall proportions very disproportionate. If I had to describe it in one word, I'd call it "Quirky".

Somewhere there is a Mercedes Smart car which indeed looks "smart" for a small electric car. And then there's this Mahindra E2O

They said Wagon-R looked weird when it was introduced. Most folks don't like MUVs. In fact, I find most sports cars weirdly designed. A friend had a BMW sports car in NJ, and I couldn't even fit in without a lot of effort and I was wondering why he paid close to US$100K for it!

It's all a matter of individual taste and perception.
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Old 19th March 2013, 14:32   #164
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Default Re: SCOOP : Detailed Reva NXR pictures. UPDATE: Badged as the "E2O"

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Originally Posted by cool_dube View Post
Here you go - from today's TOI.

Thanks to you and Saju.

1.5Lakhs for a battery pack is in reality a very good price point. A lithium Ion batttery pack is unlikely to fail within 6yrs. Normal life is between 8-10yrs. And if in about 6yrs you have to spend 1.5lakhs, it works out to about Rs.25K/year, or about Rs.2K/month.

That's not a big ask.
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Old 19th March 2013, 15:19   #165
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Default Re: SCOOP : Detailed Reva NXR pictures. UPDATE: Badged as the "E2O"

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Originally Posted by hkollar View Post
Thanks to you and Saju.

1.5Lakhs for a battery pack is in reality a very good price point. A lithium Ion batttery pack is unlikely to fail within 6yrs. Normal life is between 8-10yrs. And if in about 6yrs you have to spend 1.5lakhs, it works out to about Rs.25K/year, or about Rs.2K/month.

That's not a big ask.
All presumptions. By then the battery pack would end up costing Rs. 3,00,000/- with inflation. Also realistically battery life may not be more than 4-5 years. Lithium ion cell phone batteries do not last more than 2-3 years and normal lead-acid batteries about 3-4.

So in my view battery cost alone = Rs. 2,00,000/5 years or Rs. 40,000/year or say Rs. 3,500/- per month.

Now for running costs. Based on practical effective about 60 km range and charging time of 5 hours, power used will be 10 units (2 units/hr x 5). 2 units is minimum presumed since it requires a 15A plug point. At cost of residential power of say Rs. 5/- per unit that works out to Rs. 50/- or Re 1/- per km. Now when power itself is a big problem in most areas and supplemented by DG sets, then cost can be much higher. So one is burning diesel to charge an electric car! May as well use a diesel car?

Total running can be estimated at 1,000 km (50 x 20) per month. So variable cost is say Re 1/- to 1.5/km and fixed cost is Rs. 3.5/km leading to a total of Rs. 4.50 - Rs. 5.00. So saving is hardly very much and for this the user has to make huge compromises of convenience, limited use, possibility of getting stranded, etc. I believe Clarkson had done an episode with the Nissan Leaf against a VW small diesel.

Yes, pollution is reduced but not really - it is only shifted to the power plant or DG Set. Add to that lithium is very toxic and one of the rare earths.

I am not biased in any way, simply pointing out that the technology has a long way to go to be really economic or practical and to actually save the environment. Probably Mahindra ought to have put a couple of high efficiency solar panels on the roof/bonnet to also charge it during the day in the sun when parked at work.
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