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Old 19th September 2016, 15:55   #91
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Default Re: 2016 Toyota Etios & Liva facelifts launched. Called Platinum

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Originally Posted by jhaji View Post
I have been using Liva diesel for last five years. I would like to move to a petrol car with slightly bigger boot which can seat five comfortably and which is an all-rounder. By that I mean, which can be good and peppy on city roads, good on highways and also on hill roads. It can be a sedan, a crossover, or a spacious hatchback. Please suggest something better than Etios so that there would be some novelty in my ownership. Not the same old Etios twins. I can't seem to locate one!
Was in a similar dilemma. The only options were the S-Cross / Ciaz.

The S-Cross 1.6 is the only vehicle that was able to replace our Etios, but not without compromises:
- S Cross has better features, perceived interior quality and performance (moot point compared to Etios 1.5 Petrol)
- Etios has a bigger boot, more pliant city ride quality, better service, almost zilch rattles, and fewer niggles (none that we've experienced, but a lot of owners have posted on the S-Cross official review thread).

Otherwise there is nothing that will come close to the attributes of the Etios that you've pointed out. Plus with some added features like the armrest, power OVRMs, the car is a lot nicer to live with!
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Old 19th September 2016, 16:28   #92
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Default Re: 2016 Toyota Etios & Liva facelifts launched. Called Platinum

Lol. What is the rest of the market seeing that you gentlemen are not? No one is buying Etios/Liva!

Don't get me wrong, I am a Liva 1.5 petrol fan too, but we are a very small minority. I doubt that will change with the refresh.
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Old 19th September 2016, 16:32   #93
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Default Re: 2016 Toyota Etios & Liva facelifts launched. Called Platinum

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Originally Posted by lamborghini View Post
Was in a similar dilemma. The only options were the S-Cross / Ciaz.

The S-Cross 1.6 is the only vehicle that was able to replace our Etios, but not without compromises:
I would wait for the 1.5 petrol S-Cross for the reasons you mention since my mind is made up that my next car will be a petrol car. If it does not turn out to be so good, then may be I will go for a top-end black Etios which looks interesting. Not sure if the 2-3 lakhs premium on Honda BRV is worth it.

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A few more pictures of the Platinums


Attachment 1555959
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Old 19th September 2016, 16:50   #94
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Default Re: 2016 Toyota Etios & Liva facelifts launched. Called Platinum

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Honestly, the BR-V isn't.
If you get a good deal on the Mobilio (even though the interiors aren't that great), it would be worth the savings!
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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
Lol. What is the rest of the market seeing that you gentlemen are not? No one is buying Etios/Liva!

Don't get me wrong, I am a Liva 1.5 petrol fan too, but we are a very small minority. I doubt that will change with the refresh.
IMO, the hatch and compact sedan market is driven by aspirational value. Most of the owners will drive the vehicle themselves, want features, good looks, and nice interiors - as the bragging rights for these is of far greater value than safety, a good ride and handling balance, space, etc.
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Old 19th September 2016, 17:03   #95
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Default Re: 2016 Toyota Etios & Liva facelifts launched. Called Platinum

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This obsolete model is still
  • The only model that is a made in India under 10L and still gets a 4 Star NCAP rating, giving a structure that's as stable as what they sell overseas in Brazil and South Africa.
The VW Polo with dual airbags also got 4-star rating in GNCAP.
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Originally Posted by amalji View Post
  • The only vehicle in India under 20 Lakhs which has a "Made in Japan" Diesel engine
And the point? There are better diesel engines available in India like the Hyundai U2.


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Originally Posted by amalji View Post
  • Has a Diesel engine maintenance cost which is cheaper than an Alto Petrol
Can you please substantiate with the maintenance bills?
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Originally Posted by amalji View Post
  • Has the highest replacement intervals for parts for any cars that is sold in India and which is better than the Corolla and is comparable to the Innova
Again, can you please provide the replacement interval comparison for different cars? (As you mentioned "any car sold in India")
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  • The best service and support you could ever get in India.
I agree that Toyota service is great, but the best you could ever get in India? Really?
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Old 19th September 2016, 17:04   #96
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Default Re: 2016 Toyota Etios & Liva facelifts launched. Called Platinum

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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
Lol. What is the rest of the market seeing that you gentlemen are not? No one is buying Etios/Liva!

Don't get me wrong, I am a Liva 1.5 petrol fan too, but we are a very small minority. I doubt that will change with the refresh.
We had an intra family discussion on the Etios last night, my two kids came down on me like a ton of bricks! I was clear and gave them an option to choose a different car in that price bracket and features, they went silent! Their quip is any car other than the Etios: "It's a budget car dad, that's a taxi car dad!!" I've told them I'll first do a TD and then decide! "Dad, please retain the Elantra (GLS 11 years old)"! I've told them I'm not interested in taking out a loan at this point in life so want to duck under 10L as much as possible! I usually retain my car for long periods of time if it's fuss free and comfy and I've no hangups regarding appearance or status and not much of a penny pincher when it comes to FE as my running is rather limited!

Last edited by Durango Dude : 19th September 2016 at 17:05.
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Old 19th September 2016, 17:22   #97
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Default Re: 2016 Toyota Etios & Liva facelifts launched. Called Platinum

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I agree that Toyota service is great, but the best you could ever get in India? Really?
Really. DSK Toyota is the best I have seen in three decades of using Fiat, Maruti, Tata, Hyundai and Honda.

Anyone else? Obviously some one better may come along tomorrow, but it hasn't happened yet.
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Old 19th September 2016, 17:59   #98
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Default Re: 2016 Toyota Etios & Liva facelifts launched. Called Platinum

Can someone tell me the difference between G & GX?
Though separate prices are mentioned for both these models on their site (25-30k apart), there is no mention of GX in the new brochure.

Brochure lists G, V & VX
Price list states G, GX, V & VX

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Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
Really. DSK Toyota is the best I have seen in three decades of using Fiat, Maruti, Tata, Hyundai and Honda.

Anyone else? Obviously some one better may come along tomorrow, but it hasn't happened yet.
Check the following experience I had with DSK. Maybe a one-off case, but still
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post4048568 (Toyota Liva : Test Drive & Review)

Last edited by vinit.merchant : 19th September 2016 at 18:04.
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Old 19th September 2016, 18:15   #99
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Post Re: 2016 Toyota Etios & Liva facelifts launched. Called Platinum

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Originally Posted by A350XWB View Post
The VW Polo with dual airbags also got 4-star rating in GNCAP.
Yes, I realized that error after finishing the edit time. Polo and Etios are both 4 star rated made in India cars under 10L.

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Originally Posted by A350XWB View Post
And the point? There are better diesel engines available in India like the Hyundai U2.
Try talking to the other "Made in Japan" engine users in India. ( the 1st gen Maruti 800, and the initial batches of Toyota Qualis ). It's more about durability.

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Originally Posted by A350XWB View Post
Can you please substantiate with the maintenance bills?
Again, can you please provide the replacement interval comparison for different cars?
I hope, this post will answer both your questions - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ml#post3832190 (Spare Part Price List of cars that are sold here)
And for brand wise comparison, check it here - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post3103984 (Honda Amaze : Official Review)
Feel free to ask, if you need more specific data than this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sawyer View Post
Really. DSK Toyota is the best I have seen in three decades of using Fiat, Maruti, Tata, Hyundai and Honda.

Anyone else? Obviously some one better may come along tomorrow, but it hasn't happened yet.
In my case, Nippon Toyota, Kalamassery, Kochi has given me the best ever experience. But, part of it also has to do with the quality of the car as well because it never gave any trouble. So, most services which didn't need any insurance repair was completed in 1.5 hours to 2 hours flat including washing as well!

The only exception has been Amana Toyota, Wayanad because they do not have an express service bay. So, it was routine service ( 10 am to 4 pm ).

More about Toyota express service here - http://www.toyota.com/owners/parts-s...ss-maintenance

Other good experiences that I see from Toyota.
  • Proactive fixes like the front suspension replacement for the initial generation etios to resolve the "thud sound when coming down a hump at a slightly higher speed" which is still existent on some very popular cars like the Hyundai Verna.
  • The way, Toyota fixed the rattle bug in the AC vents of the Etios. They came up with a rattle fix kit instead of doing some jugaad on a case by case basis!
  • The proactive advisories to take care of issues ( like changing the drain plug of transmission ) and strictly adhering to it instead of playing cat and mouse game with the customer.
  • Even the accessories department of any Toyota dealership is trained directly by Toyota on the best practices to be followed while fixing accessories on a Toyota. So, when you ask them to fit something new, rest assured that they will do it the Toyota way.
  • The SMILES pack is a nice addon as well.

Last edited by amalji : 19th September 2016 at 18:42.
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Old 19th September 2016, 20:41   #100
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Default Re: 2016 Toyota Etios & Liva facelifts launched. Called Platinum

Well for me the best design of the Etios is the Etios Cross and the one I've. After seeing the updates from Brazil, thought it'd look great. It does in parts but well, it's inside that matters. For one they didn't give the all digital speedo. And the new alloys on the Liva are meh. Earlier ones were much better. I appreciate the lighter clutch on the diesel variant and the increased noise insulation. I think it'll be the last refresh before we see the new one.

My biggest complaint from my car has been the doors not shutting on first go due to absence of rubber beadings, the absence of rear door speakers & the centre console which is another debate on its own. Also not sure what quality of glass have they been using but during cooler days the windows always fog up from within. What I absolutely dig about the vehicle is Toyota after sales and service, reliability, low maintenance & good mileage. It drives flat too, if not plush which is a plus for our urban Martian landscapes. And I absolutely dig th flat steering which is only available for the diesel variant! Every time I fill her up, I don't bother. It's like my HH Karizma.

Out of the current offerings, this is still a robust product & the sheer brilliance of Toyotas after sales/service & overall reliability, it'll sell well.

What would one want from the next gen Etios? A proper console, better sound insulation, upmarket interiors, flat folding rear seats & a better looking car from the outside. I don't have qualms that it is a taxi car. In fact I know someone who recently asked me about mine and at the same time had booked an Elite i20. The assurance Toyota gives is like no other. In fact they're now offering extended warranty as well.

Only if Toyota listen and implement changes to what is a truly under-rated car in its class, which has all the cred to do brilliantly well. And it must!

Last edited by coolmel : 19th September 2016 at 20:46.
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Old 19th September 2016, 22:13   #101
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Default Re: 2016 Toyota Etios & Liva facelifts launched. Called Platinum

As an Etios owner for over 5 years, I see the following advantages with the Platinum Etios.

1) Great improvement in aesthetics thanks to the new stylish front bumper. (Toyota missed this badly in the last design change of Etios).

2) Electrically adjusted ORVMs makes it lot easier as we do not have to stretch too much while opening the left side ORVM from inside.

3) Rear seat arm rest is a welcome new addition for added comfort.

4) The interiors look marginally better than the first generation Etios.

5) Foldable rear seat is a welcome change though it is marginal. The large 595 litre boot may make this feature redundant.

On some of the negative comments about the Etios, I have only this much to say.

1) Myth 1 - "Etios has poor quality interiors":

Etios interiors look the same way even after five years of ownership. It is not just me but almost every owner says it. Etios may not be neighbor's envy as of now. But it is certainly an owner's pride. The dash lovers should check the interiors of any three year old Vento to understand what cheap looking interiors mean.

2) Myth 2 - Poor NVH factor :

Noise was a bit of an issue in first generation Etios. The vibration or handling was never an issue. Even the noise issue was greatly reduced for those who opted for 3M under-body coating that would cost just about 4 grand.

3) Myth 3 - Designed for Cabs?

Which cab driver would want a base model to have ABS, airbags, rear defogger and power windows? All these could take up the cost of any car by one hundred thousand and any cab driver would be happier with a one lakh reduction in price. To say that Etios is designed only for cabs is ignorance at its best.

New Platinum Etios would rock.
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Old 19th September 2016, 23:44   #102
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Default Re: 2016 Toyota Etios & Liva facelifts launched. Called Platinum

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1) Myth 1 - "Etios has poor quality interiors":

The dash lovers should check the interiors of any three year old Vento to understand what cheap looking interiors mean.
I have a 3+ year old Rapid and a 2.5 year old Vento. I'm quite sure you have either seen just one badly bashed up example or you don't know what you're talking about.

Sorry for being harsh, but you should just admit that Toyota has used inferior plastics. Just because they don't rattle doesn't mean they're good quality, just well screwed together.

If you sit like any normal person would and casually rest your knee against the door pad, it flexes. I'm neither humungously heavy with matching elephantine knees, nor do I suggest one exert excessive pressure to prove a point.

That in my opinion is evidence of cost cutting. It could be that the plastic is far too thin if I take your word on its durability, but it is still evident and off-putting.

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Originally Posted by amateurpro View Post
2) Myth 2 - Poor NVH factor
I've travelled in several Etios taxis over the years, including the latest models prior to this one. There is no doubting the practicality of the car, but the car is still noisy - too much road and suspension noise. I put the rattles down to the extreme taxi miles, but if one has to get under body coating done just to have acceptably low levels of insulation, that is again unacceptable to me for the price quoted.
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Old 20th September 2016, 09:08   #103
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Default Re: 2016 Toyota Etios & Liva facelifts launched. Called Platinum

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Try talking to the other "Made in Japan" engine users in India. ( the 1st gen Maruti 800, and the initial batches of Toyota Qualis ). It's more about durability.
I owned a humble Hyundai Santro for 7 years and the engine was supremely reliable. And I don't believe that it was "Made in Japan". There was a time when anything "Made in Japan" was considered the only reliable stuff, but it is no more the case. There are engines like the Renault dCi which goes on, just like the Toyota. So, it depends on each individual's experience.

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Originally Posted by amalji View Post
I hope, this post will answer both your questions
Feel free to ask, if you need more specific data than this.
I did not see a comparison of the parts of all cars made in India (as you mentioned in the original post) in the linked posts. One post gives the parts replaced in your Etios and the other gives the comparison of some replaceable parts/items of Figo, Etios, Swift/Dzire and Amaze.

Also, like I mentioned in another thread, my friend's Liva suffered a broken timing chain within 6 months of ownership. The car was unusable and in their minds, the legendary Toyota reliability has come down a notch. They have an 8 year old Ford, which never suffered these kind of issues. So again, it depends on individual experience.

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Originally Posted by amalji View Post
Other good experiences that I see from Toyota.
  • The proactive advisories to take care of issues ( like changing the drain plug of transmission ) and strictly adhering to it instead of playing cat and mouse game with the customer.
Please don't forget that the same company was involved in the unintended acceleration cases in the US. I don't want to go into the details of it, but just reminding that there are good and bad sides to everything. There has been proactive recalls from other manufacturers also in India.

Coming back to the Etios itself. My wife's sister is having an Etios petrol which is among the first batch and I know the strengths and weaknesses of the car very well. Like any other vehicle, it has its positives and negatives. It is a spacious, reliable budget family car, with good boot space and a nice engine. But it has an 80's design; inside and outside. That was the biggest downside of the first generation. Target audience in the price segment are one of the toughest to crack. They want a modern (looking) sedan for the money they pay. Design flair, both internally and externally is a crucial factor here. If strengths of the Etios like space, ride quality and reliability was the demand of the segment, it would have sold in high numbers along with cars like the Sunny and Logan, which offers the same virtues as the Etios, in abundance.
The refresh looks much better, but in India, if a car fails the first time, it is very difficult to get back the sales numbers. (My point is, it is a good car, but not without shortcomings, like any other).

Last edited by A350XWB : 20th September 2016 at 09:11.
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Old 20th September 2016, 09:26   #104
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Default Re: 2016 Toyota Etios & Liva facelifts launched. Called Platinum

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Originally Posted by lamborghini View Post
Was in a similar dilemma. The only options were the S-Cross / Ciaz.

The S-Cross 1.6 is the only vehicle that was able to replace our Etios, but not without compromises:
- S Cross has better features, perceived interior quality and performance (moot point compared to Etios 1.5 Petrol)
- Etios has a bigger boot, more pliant city ride quality, better service, almost zilch rattles, and fewer niggles (none that we've experienced, but a lot of owners have posted on the S-Cross official review thread).

Otherwise there is nothing that will come close to the attributes of the Etios that you've pointed out. Plus with some added features like the armrest, power OVRMs, the car is a lot nicer to live with!
I waited to TD both S-Cross and Baleno before I bought the Etios. Although the S-Cross ticked most boxes, there was one big issue for me. That was the in city drive-ability. I usually like to TD on my regular commute stretch at busy hours just to get my real life - 80% of the time experience. I didnt like it at all. Didnt want to get screwed everyday by a foot long clutch

In comparison the Etios clutch is short and soft. Also because of the torque distribution and some efficient driving I am able to drive on the 3rd gear almost like an automatic.
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Old 20th September 2016, 09:43   #105
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Default Re: 2016 Toyota Etios & Liva facelifts launched. Called Platinum

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Originally Posted by A350XWB View Post
I owned a humble Hyundai Santro for 7 years and the engine was supremely reliable. And I don't believe that it was "Made in Japan". There was a time when anything "Made in Japan" was considered the only reliable stuff, but it is no more the case. There are engines like the Renault dCi which goes on, just like the Toyota. So, it depends on each individual's experience.
We are talking about 4 lakh plus kms. And yes, there are etios taxis that i know of that has covered 4 Lakhs kms plus without any major issues.

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Originally Posted by A350XWB View Post
I did not see a comparison of the parts of all cars made in India (as you mentioned in the original post) in the linked posts. One post gives the parts replaced in your Etios and the other gives the comparison of some replaceable parts/items of Figo, Etios, Swift/Dzire and Amaze.
I can give you the full list of cars, if you want to. But, I thought it would be just redundant data.
Give me one vehicle in India which beats the replacement interval mentioned there.

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Originally Posted by A350XWB View Post
Also, like I mentioned in another thread, my friend's Liva suffered a broken timing chain within 6 months of ownership. The car was unusable and in their minds, the legendary Toyota reliability has come down a notch. They have an 8 year old Ford, which never suffered these kind of issues. So again, it depends on individual experience.
You don't get into judgments based on lemons. Check out the ownership reports of the car here in team-bhp. And check jd power dependability study which picks up a fairly big sample for their study. Jd power uses 3 to 4 year old cars for their study. And a typical etios taxi ( the bulk of etios sales is in taxi segment ) covers 50,000 kms per year. Inspite of all this, etios still got the dependability awards consecutively for 2015 and 2016.


Regardless, I'm very interested in knowing more about that timing chain issue. I would like to get Toyota's explanation on that. Could you please pm me the registration number of this vehicle?

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Originally Posted by A350XWB View Post
Please don't forget that the same company was involved in the unintended acceleration cases in the US. I don't want to go into the details of it, but just reminding that there are good and bad sides to everything. There has been proactive recalls from other manufacturers also in India.
Yes, that was a goof up from Toyota and post that, even in India, they have been very proactive.
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