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Old 17th December 2008, 18:06   #256
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Just realized that this was the same thing that I had experienced when I did a TD of a top end 4x4 vehicle from a dealer at my home town. Was jamming the brakes to check out the ABS and noticed that the tail came out on the right. This happened when I was trying to stop from around 80kmph; am sure that any higher would have had the vehicle do a 180!!!

The sales guy said that this was due to the service being over due and all that. And this was a Feb '07 make vehicle.

EDIT:

So guys, is the vehicle always moving out on the right side? Is this a defect yet to be recognized or is it just coincidence?

And do we need to start a new thread instead of diluting TSK's thread?

Last edited by HappyWheels : 17th December 2008 at 18:10.
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Old 29th December 2008, 15:42   #257
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Default 10000kms update!

Its been 5 months since she came, and now the ODO reads 10,000kms.
This includes 1 mountain trip, and one desert trip.
Overall a mixed bag.
To get them out of the way first the issues
1. On cold start the rpm surges between 800-1100. TASC guys could not find anything wrong on the analyzer. Guess this one is a mystery
2. While navigating bumps(not potholes) where suspension travel happens, there is a sound like creaky old sofa springs. After every service this goes away for 2 days and comes back
3. There is slight pull towards right on braking. Recently I had to lock wheels at 100kmph, she skidded straight, but when I do normal braking(slightly hard braking) without wheel lockup, I have to grip the steering hard
4. Saw service light a few times, but looks like fuel issue since its gone now
5. AC fuse blew once
6. Driver side wiper is leaving streak, I felt the wiper surface, looks like a manufacturing defect or something, but its not under warranty, so will get bosch before next monsoon, no syndicate low quality nonsense for her
7. The console(HVAC controls, heating and direction) are not "fine". It takes a lot of effort and care to direct air where we exactly want. Have reported this problem, but I suspect this will go away with a new console, which no TASC wants to give me. I guess such niggly low quality issues are to be expected. I have even written to Tata via their complaint box, and they don't seem to care. Such shoddy controls would feel more at home on the nano, not a 10L vehicle.
8. 4x4 system failed, got fixed at 7500kms service. Now I never engage 4x4 without stopping vehicle.


With that out of the way, now its time for the good bits.
First and formost she is one of the best highway cruiser I have driven, and I have done highway cruising quite a bit, in cars like mustang, Altima, Liberty, Challenger, Corolla... and the indica.
There is no fatigue, no back ache, no shoulder ache, no neck ache. the only thing which can be improved is the under thigh support.

Next comes the off roading part. I was expecting her to handle mild stuff, but the 4x4 Low turns her into a really potent beast. She can climb steep slopes on idle in 4x4 low. The LSD is really really helpful, and has helped me out in sticky situations many times.

And last but not the least, the FE is phenomenal. I am by no means a sedate driver, and she gives me 10-10.5 in city consistently. After 500kms, 300 of which were gruelling 1st-2nd gear hill driving, she gave 10.3 kmpl!
Once I had to drive at 3rd gear 40-50 and 4th gear 60-70 all the way due to dense fog, she returned a staggering 16.8kmpl.
I guess if I drive at 80-90 in 5th gear I can easily expect 16-17kmpl, but normally with high speed driving, the figure falls to a mere 13kmpl

Overall in these 10,000kms, the FE has been 11kmpl.

But its not all rosy, as I discovered on my recent trip. Very sharp and steep uphill hairpin bends are a pain, because you cannot maintain enough speed in first gear(due to sharp curve) to get past 1400rpm or so, below which she cannot pick up. So you have to half clutch a bit to make her move sometimes. Some more low end torque in 1000-1100rpm range would do wonders. If you are navigating steep hill slopes, its good to maintain momentum so that rpm is above 1400rpm or so.
Once you are above that rpm, she can literally climb walls.

So thats all for now. Hope to do lots more mile munching, without problems of course!
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Old 29th December 2008, 16:18   #258
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TSK,

Congratulations on the 10k milestone. You've summed up the experience very nicely.

To add another of the safari's quirks, the fuel gauge can be better caliberated. For the 1st 100kms, it refuses to move, then slowly moves to the half mark, and then slows down, only to make a final dash to the Empty/reserve mark.

Onto the next 10k ! Drive On!

cheers!
Srini
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Old 29th December 2008, 16:31   #259
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Nice writeup, and excellent mileage as well.
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Old 29th December 2008, 21:25   #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
But its not all rosy, as I discovered on my recent trip. Very sharp and steep uphill hairpin bends are a pain, because you cannot maintain enough speed in first gear(due to sharp curve) to get past 1400rpm or so, below which she cannot pick up. So you have to half clutch a bit to make her move sometimes. Some more low end torque in 1000-1100rpm range would do wonders. If you are navigating steep hill slopes, its good to maintain momentum so that rpm is above 1400rpm or so.
Once you are above that rpm, she can literally climb walls.
this is what i meant when i said i literally cannot make out where the 140 bhp is hiding? by the way, does fitting free flow exhausts or performance exhausts increase low end power?

apart from the quality issues, i think it is serving you pretty well. the FE you are getting is phenomenal for such a huge vehicle. (one advantage of the tall gearing and lack of low end power)

happy mile munching.

Last edited by raj_5004 : 29th December 2008 at 21:26.
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Old 29th December 2008, 22:53   #261
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
this is what i meant when i said i literally cannot make out where the 140 bhp is hiding? by the way, does fitting free flow exhausts or performance exhausts increase low end power?
Its not a case of BHP but low end torque. Free flow can actually rob you of low end torque.

Quote:
apart from the quality issues, i think it is serving you pretty well. the FE you are getting is phenomenal for such a huge vehicle. (one advantage of the tall gearing and lack of low end power)
happy mile munching.
What does lack of low end power(or rather torque) have to do with FE. Actually if you have more low end torque you can putter around in higher gear and get even more FE!

Last edited by tsk1979 : 29th December 2008 at 23:10.
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Old 29th December 2008, 22:57   #262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
this is what i meant when i said i literally cannot make out where the 140 bhp is hiding? by the way, does fitting free flow exhausts or performance exhausts increase low end power?

apart from the quality issues, i think it is serving you pretty well. the FE you are getting is phenomenal for such a huge vehicle. (one advantage of the tall gearing and lack of low end power)

happy mile munching.
The Scorpios & to some extent the Innovas also struggle to climb steephills even in the lower gears. I regularly visit hydo power projects across India and specially in Himachal & uttranchal. Most of the constuction companies out there like to have Mahindra vehicles as their stock fleet. The senior people use safari/ scorpio/ innova (though rarely) and most of the times we leave drivers back & drive ourselves. Recently, I drove a M-hawk from Kalka to Recong Peo & found it as sluggish on steep climb in lower gears like any other vehicle.

The problem is not vehicle/ make specific but it is due to low end torque.
To me, Bolero appears to be best behaved vehicle in hills.
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Old 29th December 2008, 23:10   #263
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Very unbiased & true update.
Quite a few niggles there, could be due to hard use/abuse on offroad terrain!
Try a Corolla on steep inclines, good bottom end Torque ensures a smooth crawl. But anyway its not an offroading tool, I have tried it on hills, so just mentioned.
I think with increased usage on offroad terrain, vehicle will develop more niggles!
Best of luck!
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Old 29th December 2008, 23:13   #264
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None of the niggles(except the 4x4 issue) are even remotely related to off road use!
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Old 29th December 2008, 23:18   #265
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None of the niggles(except the 4x4 issue) are even remotely related to off road use!
Good for you!
It might seem this way but actually its surely the other way around!
Only hardcore Jeeps, stay as such after use on offroad terrain.
Your vehicle would age faster on such terrain!
Only a concern if one is bothered, I suppose you are not, because you bought it for such usage in the first place.
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Old 29th December 2008, 23:20   #266
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...
The problem is not vehicle/ make specific but it is due to low end torque.
To me, Bolero appears to be best behaved vehicle in hills.
This lack of low end grunt seems to be rather more common with the turbocharged CRDi vehicles. Hence the favourable opinion about the Bolero.
The 2.6 CRDe Scorpio does not really suffer from this problem. I had no problem on the Jalori Pass route, doing standing starts on the steepest gradients at Shoja. Had to do long stretches in first gear though!
I do know that the non-CRDe Scorpios are better at this low end grunt thing! Taxi drivers in the hills prefer the old Scorpios; hence the recent introduction by M&M of the Scorpio M2Di.
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Old 30th December 2008, 10:17   #267
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Its not a case of BHP but low end torque. Free flow can actually rob you of low end torque.

What does lack of low end power(or rather torque) have to do with FE. Actually if you have more low end torque you can putter around in higher gear and get even more FE!
yes, the low end torque is missing in the safari.

poor low end torque means tall gearing which in turns translates into good FE. leave aside the driving habits, they vary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by breezydrive View Post
Recently, I drove a M-hawk from Kalka to Recong Peo & found it as sluggish on steep climb in lower gears like any other vehicle.

The problem is not vehicle/ make specific but it is due to low end torque.
To me, Bolero appears to be best behaved vehicle in hills.
thats what i said buddy, lack of low end torque is not desirable. like anup sir said about the CRDe, even in the mhawk, i have not faced any issues while climbing steep inclines. but as you mentioned, i understand thats your personal experience.

anyways, lets not bring scorpio into picture, its a really touchy topic in this safari thread. members dont appreciate comparisons here, so lets stick to the safari.

Last edited by raj_5004 : 30th December 2008 at 10:18.
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Old 30th December 2008, 10:33   #268
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i am a little surprised at the repeated issues of "service light" coming on in the 2.2 ostensibly on account of poor quality fuel. If that is really the cause,then it is acause of worry since the safari is issentially a tourer and you ar elucky if you get good quality diesel on the highways and small towns. so that means that the safari could potentially be restrained in what is one of its greatest strengths.

i know for a fact that in the 3.0 L, TML had tested the car uder conditions of diesel adulterated upto 50% with kerosene, and thought here was a loss in performance (of course!!), overall, the engine and the car were none the worse ofr it and the engine did not go into limp home mode.

in my truck, if I ever fill diesel that turns out to be of an inferior quality, i can immediately feel it since the engine starts to run a bit coarser and under hard acceleration, she smokes more than normal, but this is ieasily rectified with either a squirt of System D or a quick top up from a trusted pump (usually COCO). But till date (touch wood!) the servie light has never come on and i am pretty sure that is the case with most if not all 3.0 L owners here

I would be quite surprised if TML did not run similar tests with the 2.2, hence the real life problems faced here are a bit surprising.

me thinks, too much electrcals are actually spoiling our cars these days, just IMHO.
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Old 30th December 2008, 11:50   #269
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@raj_2004, steep inclines are not a problem, if you have momentum, which is impossible on sharp hairpin bends. Infact on one such bend, I saw a santro could not go up, and the clutch totally burnt out(the driver tried brute force). Even non Crdi Tavera and a Bolero pickup(the favorite vehicle in HP) had problem climbing, and the santro caused a 3 vehicle "jam".
The bolero guy tried going up from zero momentum, and the vehicle did not move, I saw a puff of black smoke as he revved. Finally he revved and dumped clutch, rear wheels spun, and off he went.
Next was the fully loaded tavera, he got wheelspin too but could not climb, then he rolled back some and went.
I also did similar thing, had little wheelspin, and once I hit 1400rpm, she climbed without a hitch.


@himanshu. The engine did not go into limp home mode. There was absolutely no loss of power at all. The service light came for couple of seconds and got off. After I did the 3rd gear revving the service light did not come at all, except at high altitude, and that too for 2 seconds. One more tankful, and the service light has not come at all again.
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Old 30th December 2008, 14:27   #270
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@raj_2004, steep inclines are not a problem, if you have momentum, which is impossible on sharp hairpin bends. Infact on one such bend, I saw a santro could not go up, and the clutch totally burnt out(the driver tried brute force). Even non Crdi Tavera and a Bolero pickup(the favorite vehicle in HP) had problem climbing, and the santro caused a 3 vehicle "jam".
The bolero guy tried going up from zero momentum, and the vehicle did not move, I saw a puff of black smoke as he revved. Finally he revved and dumped clutch, rear wheels spun, and off he went.
Next was the fully loaded tavera, he got wheelspin too but could not climb, then he rolled back some and went.
I also did similar thing, had little wheelspin, and once I hit 1400rpm, she climbed without a hitch.
okies, in your case, since the incline was so steep that all cars faced a problem, nobody can really blame the safari. but from your earlier post, i thought that it was a problem on fairly steep slopes too.
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