[ex670c]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Arka: makes sense maybe for your vehicle with those tyres might not make sense, in the kind of terrain you drive predominantly.

Hi Jaggu,

The only vehicle I have seen with a sensible tyre upgrade is Robinson's Invader, which can be adopted for MM540s.

Ask Swastik Viji, if his MM550XD is faster on road with 7.50X16 or Mudzilla's both are 31" tall approx.

Regards,

Arka

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Venki: Trepadors on heavy vehicle like 540 550 vs lighter vehicles like gypsy, cj3b etc That's what am banking on for that additional life factor. And how much do we run in an year, if it last 2 years of our use, its worth it. I guess.

2 Years is fantastic. Time to do some calculations on the km usage.

[Jaggu]

Arka Viji's jeep doesn't have any issue with Mudzilla, he just pumps the air lil bit for roaf and it runs flawless. Speedo error was +10 calculated with GPS. I drove the vehicles very comfortably at 100 km/h on gps cruising for hours together without any complains. Rememeber we had passed you on the way back. It had more steam left and vehicle really moves despite such wide patch.

[Red Liner]

Originally Posted by ex670c

Hi Jaggu,

The only vehicle I have seen with a sensible tyre upgrade is Robinson's Invader, which can be adopted for MM540s.

Ask Swastik Viji, if his MM550XD is faster on road with 7.50X16 or Mudzilla's both are 31" tall approx.

Regards,

Arka

Saar, I did 100kmph with the Mudzilla's on the 550XD and a doughnut as well thereafter ofcourse the tyre pressure was an insane 45 psi or something...

[Jaggu]

Originally Posted by Red Liner

Saar, I did 100kmph with the Mudzilla's on the 550XD and a doughnut as well thereafter ofcourse the tyre pressure was an insane 45 psi or something...

Let's not talk about your donut stunt here, we don't want to spoil other kids.

It was running 40-43 psi on the tyres, which was reduced to 30 at tigers point by me. I don't think we pumped it back till we reached BLR.

So I think there is no issues even with regular pressure. Atleast I felt it displayed great road characterists for a MT.

[swastikviji]

Originally Posted by Sha

What are you sure about NDMS, if so it's good atlast.

@Wolf- NDMS tyre is good only if the terrain has ruts otherwise its just VFM.

What u mean by VFM? NDMS @3200.00 will Runs Maximum 9000 Kms (in daily Estate Use) Trpedors @ 6000.00 done 20k in Khans Gypsy still has life. NDMS is VFM only when u rethread it,

I observed in many OTR's my michelin Ltx performs better than any NDMS tires, ask star_aqua he stuck in Munzrabad with his favourite NDMS, me,sha and King easily crossed with AT tires.

[The Wolf]

It costed me around 4,400 bucks for my 7.00-16 NDMS including the tubes...buts yes this ones is way bigger than the ones you guys are refering to.

[fiery enzyme]

@Jaggu - I think there will be a huge difference if the 540 is running 7.50 X 16 instead of 7.00 X16. I think that is about the perfect tyre for the jeep. I'm talking about the NDMS of course.

Any other tyre like trepadors or mudzillas won't give the height or stance needed without compromising the power.

I mean more height = more width = less power.

you know this is like asking if jeep or gypsy is better. Too much subjectivity.

[R32_GTR]

Originally Posted by ex670c

Hi Jaggu,

The only vehicle I have seen with a sensible tyre upgrade is Robinson's Invader, which can be adopted for MM540s...

..and Jonga's!!

I'm getting myself a set of 245 / 75 / R16 bighorns in a while.
and I'm also keeping the Goodyear G90's ..

[headers]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Let me explain, "Overall tire diameter + optimum pounds per square inch force on ground + deeper tread pattern + correct momentum and floatation" is what you need to overcome most wet/mushy obstacles. Now, do you think an AT/HT can beat the NDMS? If yes, which one and how? I'd like to understand it from scientific stand point.

There are some aggressive AT / MT patterns that beat the NDMS hands down. NDMS looses traction on many surfaces and thats why AT/MT tyres sell.

NDMS has poor sidewalls too.

From a scientific standpoint, The AT/MT tyres are all designed to increase comfort as well as give traction over "most" surfaces. The self cleaning and rugged ability of NDMS is a little low on their priorities.

In other words, NDMS is like a Diesel Ambassador that keeps running on and on and on...inspite of BS4 tech nowadays

Originally Posted by fiery enzyme

you know this is like asking if jeep or gypsy is better. Too much subjectivity.

Bala, a Jeep is obviously Better, right? BTW, when is the new one coming? Heard you are among the elite to TD it. Way to go man!

[ex670c]

Originally Posted by headers

In other words, NDMS is like a Diesel Ambassador that keeps running on and on and on...inspite of BS4 tech nowadays

A/C, Power-Steering and a BS4 2.0L Isuzu Diesel keeps it going.

[gsferrari]

Originally Posted by headers

Bala, a Jeep is obviously Better, right? BTW, when is the new one coming? Heard you are among the elite to TD it. Way to go man!

new what? you can't leave me hanging like this! Bala - PM me the details

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by headers

There are some aggressive AT / MT patterns that beat the NDMS hands down. NDMS looses traction on many surfaces and thats why AT/MT tyres sell.

Untrue. NDMS beats all AT/HT patterns for its sheer groove depth, one of the critical factors. Also the self cleaning ability of uncomplicated and large groove sections. Also, the discussion was regarding how NDMS fare against AT/HT and not MT. MT can include some of the worlds best off road tyres. NDMS, with the constraint of availability of required sizes is not comparable. But, if we can compare it only betters the NDMS reputation.

Originally Posted by headers

NDMS has poor sidewalls too.

Untrue completely. First and fore most NDMS is popular for its side wall strength as is it a load career tire.
Secondly, I have a 12ply, 7.00-16, 31.2'' NDMS, I dont think there is any AT/HT radial that has a stronger side wall than this one

Originally Posted by headers

In other words, NDMS is like a Diesel Ambassador that keeps running on and on and on...inspite of BS4 tech nowadays

And why not, in a recent trip to ladakh and back, a support vehicle in the form of an Ambassador which was carrying service men and the back up tools and spare parts of some new age cars testing its reliability was the most reliable with not even a single puncture to say the least. The brand new, technologically so called advanced versions of Indian automobiles had more break downs than the measly old horse which came in handy in towing them. LOL!

As I said earlier its not about technology, its about what still works and what doesnt. Our half or quarter of a century old Jeeps still do their duty as desired right? How advanced are its inherent features? We love em not coz they are retro or new-age but just coz they do their duty, pretty well I may add!

[headers]

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Untrue. NDMS beats all AT/HT patterns for its sheer groove depth, one of the critical factors. Also the self cleaning ability of uncomplicated and large groove sections. Also, the discussion was regarding how NDMS fare against AT/HT and not MT. MT can include some of the worlds best off road tyres. NDMS, with the constraint of availability of required sizes is not comparable. But, if we can compare it only betters the NDMS reputation.

If what you say is true, then why does the world at large not resort to NDMS for its vehicles. Because NDMS lacks GRIP on a smooth surface because of the contact patch being small, this also reflects in the braking effectiveness.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Untrue completely. First and fore most NDMS is popular for its side wall strength as is it a load career tire.
Secondly, I have a 12ply, 7.00-16, 31.2'' NDMS, I dont think there is any AT/HT radial that has a stronger side wall than this one

I had a 7.50x16 on my old 540.

Originally Posted by The Wolf

And why not, in a recent trip to ladakh and back, a support vehicle in the form of an Ambassador which was carrying service men and the back up tools and spare parts of some new age cars testing its reliability was the most reliable with not even a single puncture to say the least. The brand new, technologically so called advanced versions of Indian automobiles had more break downs than the measly old horse which came in handy in towing them. LOL!

LOL, all the guys who wanna go to Ladakh should do in a diesel Amby

Originally Posted by The Wolf

As I said earlier its not about technology, its about what still works and what doesnt. Our half or quarter of a century old Jeeps still do their duty as desired right? How advanced are its inherent features? We love em not coz they are retro or new-age but just coz they do their duty, pretty well I may add!

WOLF-You are definitely NOT a THAR customer. You seem to like the old jeeps with their pre-BS engines to modern age CRDe Engines right?

OK OK, now, if you look at tyres at large: AT is a compromise tyre between MT as well as HT.

Hence comparing a AT to a NDMS IMO is like comparing apples to oranges.

Check out some of the later MT patterns from any current tyre manufacturer to get the latest patterns, they will blow the NDMS away.

BUT, when it comes to simplicity, i guess NDMS has a soft corner in my heart too.

[The Wolf]

Originally Posted by headers

If what you say is true, then why does the world at large not resort to NDMS for its vehicles. Because NDMS lacks GRIP on a smooth surface because of the contact patch being small, this also reflects in the braking effectiveness.

Arrey baba why are we discussing whats already stated below??!! The context is pure off roading, that is going OFF TARMAC and not sudden braking on tarmac.

Originally Posted by headers

I had a 7.50x16 on my old 540.

Im sure you were in absolute love with it or else you wouldnt have thought of reviving this dead thread. Anyway I respect you for having been a proud NDMS owner in the past. Why dont you try Superking 7.00-16, 31.2'', 12ply tires? They are really good. I even tried climbing a few steep rock surfaces and it held beautifully at 15psi.

Originally Posted by headers

LOL, all the guys who wanna go to Ladakh should do in a diesel Amby

No comments! Lets not ridicule each others view and comments.

Originally Posted by headers

WOLF-You are definitely NOT a THAR customer. You seem to like the old jeeps with their pre-BS engines to modern age CRDe Engines right?

LOL, you and your judgments. Dont speak like this to someone who has built and raced a 14sec, 1.5L NA 1/4th mile VTEC mill on a production body holding a national record. As I said below and repeat again, it isnt about new-age or retro, its about what works and what doesnt. If Thar works I am in for it, if it doesnt I am not. In Thar's case we all know it works more than you and me put together can handle. You could beg to differ, its your personal opinion mate!

Originally Posted by headers

OK OK, now, if you look at tyres at large: AT is a compromise tyre between MT as well as HT.


Hence comparing a AT to a NDMS IMO is like comparing apples to oranges.

I understand that. Please read my below post where I have mentioned umpteen times that its a comparo between AT/HT vs rightly sized NDMS in a off road scenario. The context was born when some of them mentioned that a AT/HT performs better than a NDMS during off roading.

Originally Posted by headers

Check out some of the later MT patterns from any current tyre manufacturer to get the latest patterns, they will blow the NDMS away.

Quote just one of them, that will "blow" an NDMS for the same physical dimension? The constraint with NDMS is the size not the design/pattern. Again, I am referring only of Off tarmac usage.

Originally Posted by headers

BUT, when it comes to simplicity, i guess NDMS has a soft corner in my heart too.

If you introspect, its the performance behind the simplicity that has grown into you having a soft corner, nothing else, cos I believe that one can have a soft corner for something/someone for a positive attribute only, not a negative one.