[Parm]

thanx for the photos rhandle. never seen this avatar of gurkha before! it sure looks impressive!

i wonder why indian army doesnt use gurkha? though it had gone through with the user trials!!

front bumper of israeli gurkha is very nice with the winch!

here are two photos of the wallpaper i use on my laptop.

[rhandle]

It was offered to Indian army and I guess the price quoted was around 6lacs.

Indian army guess was out of budget or force might be out of "grease"! I should not comment how Indian bureaucracy works over here, hopefully you know it or you would find it out when you try to deal business with government

[Parm]

6 lakhs!!! what was FM thinking??

MM must be selling 550s at half the damn price quoted by FM!

[rhandle]

Compare the goodies between Force and a Mahindra, you wud know!!

[Gurkha]

Looks like Gurkha in every step has to prove itself just like Sita's Agni pariksha in Ramayana and we all know what happened after that. Folks, it doesn't matter, higher authorities have tested Gurkha and given it flying colors. Skepticism aside, time for those who have an objective mind to look at the Gurkha via a clean clear optical lens rather than thought the dreaded green lens masked as skepticism.

Rahul Roy has literally gone out of his way to prove all the doubts beyond anyone myself included. This man has taken steps to post pictures of it in action, answered all the so called queries in a very neutral and non-subjective way as possible. Furthermore he has just posted evidence of the Gurkha with the IDF and Genda with SA army. I also know for a fact that the Malaysian Army has bought a consignment of Gurkha for military use.

On another note, Lt. Daniel Manor is a IDF office who also happens incidentally to be in the transportation department. He is the son of my classmate and ex IAF ace Avi Manor's son. According to Daniel, the Judo is in service in the southern sector with the IDF and from the reports, it does pretty well as expected. Also apart from JEEP and Hummers, IDF also uses Pajero King and he has high praise for them as well. The HUMMER and JEEP however competent they maybe off road have proved to be high maintenance affairs needing frequent service. Incidentally it was Daniel who informed me about the Judo in use by IDF and subsequently I confirmed this news with the folks at FORCE. In fact, RRNSS who is a member hear will attest to the fact that his Judo was one from the IDF batch slated for Israel.

To end it all, instead of doubting Gurkha's abilities and trying to put it down, why not make some efforts and buy one and find out why German 4x4 mag in 1987 tests declared it to be the most competent and hardest off roader ever, thats some title considering the opposition Gurkha was being compared in that particular test.

[tsk1979]

Gurkha, your points have merit, but from all the discussions it seems that the 4x4 Gurkha which has been proven in Israel etc., and is exported does not have the same engine as the one which is sold in India.
Even in the german mag test I think the OM616 mercedes engine was used, and not the engine which is sold in Indian market

[Gurkha]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

Gurkha, your points have merit, but from all the discussions it seems that the 4x4 Gurkha which has been proven in Israel etc., and is exported does not have the same engine as the one which is sold in India.
Even in the german mag test I think the OM616 mercedes engine was used, and not the engine which is sold in Indian market

I have the OM616 turbo and would agree that in terms of NVH, the engine is a dream and blows out the best including ones from Japan. However the current DI engine is as reliable and therefore Force gives it a industry standard warranty. Also the engine develops torque earlier than my OM616 turbo making it easier to handle off road. The only thing where it looses out to the OM616 turbo is NVH but then there are few diesel engines made today that come close to NVH pedigree of OM616, I don't have any mufflers in my engine and my Gurkha is not carpetted or padded and yet, I can drive for miles without any fatigue, audio or otherwise. Apart from the engine, the rest of the Gurkha is same as the one I have and therefore its off road competence remains the same as compared to the one in use by IDF and others.

[Gurkha]

Originally Posted by Parm

6 lakhs!!! what was FM thinking??

MM must be selling 550s at half the damn price quoted by FM!

The Gurkha shown to the military was with OM616 turbo in which all the internals are Made in Germany MB OM617 turbo parts. At that time, it had ZF Germany 5 speed and German PUCH T case with PTO, today a PTO in G Wagen costs around Euro 1500. Considering the pedigree, capability, longevity, performance etc. compared to Mahindra whose Pukegot engine, Kia tranny and ancient Dana diff can't even remotely be compared to the components in the Gurkha, 6L is a bargain. I paid around Rs. 6.5L in 99 for the Gurkha, I and others who know what they want would gladly pay any sum that Force would ask for the OM611 Gurkha today. After all many so called pretenders are priced higher in the market today than Gurkha. The only reason people have an issue with Gurkha is that it has the dreaded made in India stamp. In case this was made in Germany, I guess there would be no complaints.

Lets stay on focus in this thread and thats about the Gurkha and its variants and of course the great G Wagen. There are plenty of JEEP threads out there, one can always make their comparisons and opinions posted there to avoid future un-pleasantries.

Of course direct comparisons with the FJ, Patrol or G Wagen is truly welcome.

[Spitfire]

If its such a competent product why does it not sell.

I agree everything that sells is not the best.

It boggles me why Force will give such stepmotherly treatment to the Gurkha.

Back in 2004 when i was out in the market for a competent 4x4 with a hard top, i remember visiting the Force showroom in Goa and Bangalore. Goa guys had no clue that something like this existed and the folks in Bangalore shooed me away thinking i wont be able to afford one. I am a guy who walks around in torn jeans and chappals. But thats besides the point.

I went ahead and got a Bolero 2WD knowing well that the 4WD wasnt worth it.

I think the Gurkha and the Bolero were costing the same onroad.

About the Pukegeot. Well i get he sarcasm but not appreciated. It has been serving me for 1.5 lakh kilometers and still going well. But i will get it overhauled soon.

I could have been praising the OM616 instead but Force never cared.

The product is as good as the company selling it. Force lacks in that and even if it is the best thing available out there the Gurkha still is not feasible.

Have any of you super passionate customers of Force tried to find out why?

If it dosent care selling it to us, why will anyone care how good it is?

This is a consumer's market no? Or is Force still in the stone age.

Note: I am not saying the product is bad.

[Gurkha]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

If its such a competent product why does it not sell.

I agree everything that sells is not the best.

It boggles me why Force will give such stepmotherly treatment to the Gurkha.

Back in 2004 when i was out in the market for a competent 4x4 with a hard top, i remember visiting the Force showroom in Goa and Bangalore. Goa guys had no clue that something like this existed and the folks in Bangalore shooed me away thinking i wont be able to afford one. I am a guy who walks around in torn jeans and chappals. But thats besides the point.

I went ahead and got a Bolero 2WD knowing well that the 4WD wasnt worth it.

I think the Gurkha and the Bolero were costing the same onroad.

About the Pukegeot. Well i get he sarcasm but not appreciated. It has been serving me for 1.5 lakh kilometers and still going well. But i will get it overhauled soon.

I could have been praising the OM616 instead but Force never cared.

The product is as good as the company selling it. Force lacks in that and even if it is the best thing available out there the Gurkha still is not feasible.

Have any of you super passionate customers of Force tried to find out why?

If it dosent care selling it to us, why will anyone care how good it is?

This is a consumer's market no? Or is Force still in the stone age.

Note: I am not saying the product is bad.

Force is busy with its commitments abroad and it was always tepid in launching it to the Indian market where expectations are totally different from the German market for a vehicle of this category.

[tsk1979]

So the Gurkha you are talking about(6L with OM616) does not even exist for the Indian buyer(whatever may be the reason). Does that not make the whole debate a little pointless?

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Force is busy with its commitments abroad and it was always tepid in launching it to the Indian market where expectations are totally different from the German market for a vehicle of this category.

Ok.. if FORCE themselves think our expectations are beyond their will, i dont have an argument.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Force is busy with its commitments abroad and it was always tepid in launching it to the Indian market where expectations are totally different from the German market for a vehicle of this category.

I am sure the indifferent attitude of Force sales team , Issues faced by owners during first 10000 KM ( as stated by owners here ) due to poor workmanship etc and shoddy service are not included in German expectation for a vehicle of this category.

Only if Force can take care of above aspects and make the product available to consumers it can sell. The above type of problem are considered niggles and big turnoff in case of other more mainline products because passionate customers can be only in dozens , ordinary mortals are disloyal brutes who want to extract each paisa paid in least painful way.

[Gurkha]

Originally Posted by tsk1979

So the Gurkha you are talking about(6L with OM616) does not even exist for the Indian buyer(whatever may be the reason). Does that not make the whole debate a little pointless?

Apart from the engine, in what way is it different from my Gurkha? I paid Rs.6.5L in 1999, considering inflation and hardtop plus a/c I see the current Gurkha even with the DI engine to be a far better value in that sense. There is no debate, Gukha original sold in Germany and today's Gurkha remains the same competent on and off road vehicle. No arguments there.

Originally Posted by amitk26

I am sure the indifferent attitude of Force sales team , Issues faced by owners during first 10000 KM ( as stated by owners here ) due to poor workmanship etc and shoddy service are not included in German expectation for a vehicle of this category.

Only if Force can take care of above aspects and make the product available to consumers it can sell. The above type of problem are considered niggles and big turnoff in case of other more mainline products because passionate customers can be only in dozens , ordinary mortals are disloyal brutes who want to extract each paisa paid in least painful way.

There are no major issues reported here except for loose bolts here and there, no mechanical issues or failures that I can see. As for the Gurkha sold in Germany, the local dealer goes through it with a fine tooth comb so apart from rusting due to neglect, the Gurkhas there have had no major issues even though they are exclusively used off road.

[gd1418]

All said and done, the primary question remains still unanswered - why is Force's attitude towards Indians, who have such enormous buying power, so pathetic?

Are their foreign commitments so huge and continuous, that they can afford to be disdainful to local customers?