[lganimys]

Tata Sumo 4X4!

They have re-started selling of sumo 4x4, the price for which starts at 5.5L.

A high end version is also available for 7L.

Check the price in your area with the following link.

TATA MOTORS: Sumo Victa

It comes with 4x4 in which you can switch to 4x4 on the fly.

It comes with 3 years warranty.

Ganesh Laxmanmurthy

Tata Sumo Victa
Tata Spacio Gold SA

[Blue Thunder]

Originally Posted by lganimys

...They have re-started selling of sumo 4x4, the price for which starts at 5.5L....

Did you get this information from someone in Tata or is it just based on the web-site?

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by bliss_now

What I want = Gama 4WD +AC +PS + Diff locks.
But I will never get this from Force. I guess Force is telling me "it is life, not picnic".

You are correct mate. This used to available in a vehicle called the Judo from force but has since been discontinued so if you want the 4 door you get only 4WD and no PS and AC and with the much lower powered engine. These guys at Force live in another planet and in a couple of years they will reach earth to find that the world has moved on..

Originally Posted by bliss_now

But I’m happy to settle for Gama 4WD. I’m not too keen on travelling to places where I need to queue up to possibly get stuck and hopefully come out of it (off-roading). Of course, I absolutely respect the intensions of the guys who do it.

Questions to all those who invented the wheel:
a) What is Gama 4wd worth if my requirement is to get through a 2~3 km patch to reach the farm? My folks tell me their Bolero Camper can’t get through this 2km path during monsoon months. I trust them - I have never seen this patch though.
b) Differentials in Gama 4wd - is it Open or LSD or other (such as Torsen)?
Cheers.

Is their Bolero Camper 4WD? Arka has posted some videos in another thread where the Bolero Camper performed pretty well on an off road trip. If your friends Bolero Camper is 2WD it is not a valid comparison.

Gama 4WD is not worth it my friend. If you are keen on a Force Motors vehicle, I would advice the Gurkha. If not, you are better off with a Bolero 4WD which is a thousand times more refined than the Gama. And since you don't plan any hard core off-roading the Bolero 4WD will meet your needs. It has to be ordered but so has the Gama 4WD and you rill probably get the Bolero much faster than the Gama.

[bliss_now]

Originally Posted by bliss_now

Questions to all those who invented the wheel:
a) What is Gama 4wd worth if my requirement is to get through a 2~3 km patch to reach the farm? My folks tell me their Bolero Camper can’t get through this 2km path during monsoon months. I trust them - I have never seen this patch though.
b) Differentials in Gama 4wd - is it Open or LSD or other (such as Torsen)?

Cheers.

Let me answer my own questions. Thanks to all for putting up with my posts while I’m learning.

a) Trax Gama 4wd has front and rear differentials that are "open". There is no central differential.
b) In other words, Trax Gama has 4wd that is part-time.
c) Technically it is possible to add diff locks on Gama 4wd. But Force has it own reasons not to do it.
d) As mentioned in my earlier post, I believe, diff locks and turbo charger are the key enhancements in Gurkha. I must add that I’m unclear if the front axel is the same in both models.

I understand part-time 4wd with open diff is a better off-roader than a full-time 4wd even with LSD. Of course part-time 4wd with diff-locks would be the best setup in off-roading. Hence all the ga-ga over Gurkha with diff locks.

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Is their Bolero Camper 4WD?

Gama 4WD is not worth it my friend. If you are keen on a Force Motors vehicle, I would advice the Gurkha. If not, you are better off with a Bolero 4WD which is a thousand times more refined than the Gama. And since you don't plan any hard core off-roading the Bolero 4WD will meet your needs. It has to be ordered but so has the Gama 4WD and you rill probably get the Bolero much faster than the Gama.

Thanks for your response. We got Bolero Camper 2wd. I would certainly be interested in knowing about the transmission and differential setup in Camper’s 4wd version. Do you have any information on that one?

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by bliss_now

a) Trax Gama 4wd has front and rear differentials that are "open". There is no central differential.
b) In other words, Trax Gama has 4wd that is part-time.

This will hold good for every 4WD made by Mahindra & Tata.

Originally Posted by bliss_now

c) Technically it is possible to add diff locks on Gama 4wd. But Force has it own reasons not to do it.

You can add diff locks to any 4WD, you need the dough to import the parts.

Originally Posted by bliss_now

d) As mentioned in my earlier post, I believe, diff locks and turbo charger are the key enhancements in Gurkha. I must add that I’m unclear if the front axel is the same in both models.

Gurkha has IFS, even Gama I think. So, there is no front axle.

Originally Posted by bliss_now

I understand part-time 4wd with open diff is a better off-roader than a full-time 4wd even with LSD.

Your understanding is not correct. The part-time & full-time concept has a bearing on on-road driving, not offroad driving. Offroad, both kind of vehicles will be in 4WD.

[bliss_now]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Your understanding is not correct. The part-time & full-time concept has a bearing on on-road driving, not offroad driving. Offroad, both kind of vehicles will be in 4WD.

Samurai,
First let me acknowledge that your off-road driving knowledge is from practical experience. My knowledge is mostly theoretical. I have been driving Subaru AWD for many years but never participated in off-road events. Mostly it was extreme snow conditions where I learnt to use tyre-chains.

However, Samurai, I believe your remark regarding part-time and full-time 4wd is not correct and here is why.

Consider an off-road situation where one wheel gets into very-low (or zero) traction situation. This is how part-time and full-time will respond.

Assumption: Front/Rear diffs are open and have no locks in both part-time and full-time 4wd setups. Power is equally distributed to each wheel (25% each).

Full time 4wd: The central diff will divert all the power (100%) to that zero-traction wheel. This leaves the remaining wheels power-less and that one zero-traction wheel spinning.

Part-time 4wd: There is no central diff. Zero-traction wheel will get 50% power. This is because of Open front/rear diff which results in 25% power from good wheel gets directed to zero-traction wheel. BUT, you still have 50% power available to the remaining two wheels and can possibly come of the situation.

Essentially, Part-time 4wd = Full-time 4wd + Central diff lock.

{ Better setup:
Part-time 4wd + front and rear diff locks:
There is no central diff. Zero-traction wheel will get 25% power. This is because you use front or rear diff. You still have 75% power available to the remaining three wheels and can possibly come of the situation. }

Now, you are absolutely correct about on-road driving. In fact my original remark is regarding off-road driving and not on-road.

But sir all this is in ideal conditions. A lot depends on the combination of the man and the machine - as you know by experience.

Cheers.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by bliss_now

Samurai,
First let me acknowledge that your off-road driving knowledge is from practical experience. My knowledge is mostly theoretical.

I do have a fulltime 4WD and a part-time 4WD. My limited experience comes from offroading in both the vehicle.

Originally Posted by bliss_now

However, Samurai, I believe your remark regarding part-time and full-time 4wd is not correct and here is why.

Not really, look at my remarks.

Originally Posted by bliss_now

Assumption: Front/Rear diffs are open and have no locks in both part-time and full-time 4wd setups. Power is equally distributed to each wheel (25% each).

Full time 4wd: The central diff will divert all the power (100%) to that zero-traction wheel. This leaves the remaining wheels power-less and that one zero-traction wheel spinning.

This is only possible if you have an open center differential. Can you name a fulltime 4WD vehicle with open center differential? Further, what would be the purpose of a fulltime 4WD with open center differential, which would be stuck even if one wheel slips? I have never seen or heard of open center differential in a fulltime 4WD vehicle. It would be pointless in an offroad vehicle. As far as I have seen, all fulltime 4WD vehicles come with limited slip differential on the center diff, which will avoid the situation you describe.

Originally Posted by bliss_now

Part-time 4wd: There is no central diff. Zero-traction wheel will get 50% power. This is because of Open front/rear diff which results in 25% power from good wheel gets directed to zero-traction wheel. BUT, you still have 50% power available to the remaining two wheels and can possibly come of the situation.

Essentially, Part-time 4wd = Full-time 4wd + Central diff lock.

This is fine. But do note that most fulltime 4WD vehicles do allow you to lock the center diff. When I get into offroad situation with Grand Vitara, I do have the option of locking the center diff.

Originally Posted by bliss_now

{ Better setup:
Part-time 4wd + front and rear diff locks:
There is no central diff. Zero-traction wheel will get 25% power. This is because you use front or rear diff. You still have 75% power available to the remaining three wheels and can possibly come of the situation. }

What is even better is Fulltime 4WD + Lockable LSD on Central Diff + front and rear diffs.

Originally Posted by bliss_now

Now, you are absolutely correct about on-road driving. In fact my original remark is regarding off-road driving and not on-road.

Highway Driving: Fulltime 4WD is way superior compared to parttime 4WD.
Offroad Driving: If the fulltime 4WD locks the central diff, then it is same as parttime 4WD, here I am discounting all other attributes of the vehicles.

[bliss_now]

Originally Posted by Samurai

This is only possible if you have an open center differential. Can you name a fulltime 4WD vehicle with open center differential? Further, what would be the purpose of a fulltime 4WD with open center differential, which would be stuck even if one wheel slips? I have never seen or heard of open center differential in a fulltime 4WD vehicle. It would be pointless in an offroad vehicle. As far as I have seen, all fulltime 4WD vehicles come with limited slip differential on the center diff, which will avoid the situation you describe.

I believe you do have such vehicles. People looking for slightly better control than 2wd but cannot afford a full fledged off-roader (LSD increases the cost). One of my friend has Chrysler Voyager 4wd with Centre Open Diff. May be that he likes to have Full-time-4wd sticker on his car.

I believe we agree with most of the other points.

Thanks for the conversation. cheers.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by bliss_now

One of my friend has Chrysler Voyager 4wd with Centre Open Diff. May be that he likes to have Full-time-4wd sticker on his car.

I thought we were discussing offroaders here, why bring in a mini-van? But I see it does have traction control.

[USR]

So true. i Was just trying to be over smart.

Originally Posted by rhandle

LoL used Gurkha --> Bechne jaoge bikegee nahin, kharidne jaoge toh milegee nahin(if you go to sell it you wont be able to sell it and if you go to buy it you wont be able to buy it).

[4x4addict]

Full time 4WD with center diff lock is much better than part time 4WD for the simple reason that cars handle better when power is applied to all the four wheels rather than just two wheels. This will be useful when taking turns driving in slippery conditions etc and unless you are really stuck you don't have to stop to engage 4WD. The draw back is that mileage will be lower than the same vehicle without full time 4WD.

[bliss_now]

Originally Posted by Samurai

I thought we were discussing offroaders here, why bring in a mini-van? But I see it does have traction control.

Samurai-san,

So-desu-ne (I agree). I stand corrected.

Yoku kiri-masu-ne.

Cheers.

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

Full time 4WD with center diff lock is much better than part time 4WD for the simple reason that cars handle better when power is applied to all the four wheels rather than just two wheels. This will be useful when taking turns driving in slippery conditions etc and unless you are really stuck you don't have to stop to engage 4WD. The draw back is that mileage will be lower than the same vehicle without full time 4WD.

Agreed. Full time 4wd with center diff lock gives good balance between on-road and off-road driving. Hence expensive.

cheers.

[ashu_82_2001]

HI TO ALL GUYS,,,i need ur help,,,,,inform each & evry member abt this, this is like a vote,,,how many of ull would like to have a trax gurkha with the new OM611 CRDI 125 BHP. It may come on both either the trax gama or the gurkha, If ther is a good response then only it will be available on the gurkha. First it wil be coming on the travller then only we can expect it on gurkha. any suggestions feel free to say as this wil be put up at Force Motors. If u hav any suggestions on the gurkha with the TD 2650 DI engine please come forward. i need to make a list abt the customer expectations regarding price ,interiors & exterior. Please i request everyone to come forward & give their review.
Thanks.
Ashwat Pujari

[vinod_nookala]

Originally Posted by ashu_82_2001

HI TO ALL GUYS,,,i need ur help,,,,,inform each & evry member abt this, this is like a vote,,,how many of ull would like to have a trax gurkha with the new OM611 CRDI 125 BHP. It may come on both either the trax gama or the gurkha, If ther is a good response then only it will be available on the gurkha. First it wil be coming on the travller then only we can expect it on gurkha. any suggestions feel free to say as this wil be put up at Force Motors. If u hav any suggestions on the gurkha with the TD 2650 DI engine please come forward. i need to make a list abt the customer expectations regarding price ,interiors & exterior. Please i request everyone to come forward & give their review.
Thanks.
Ashwat Pujari

Aswat pujari,
Are you the guy from Force motors? If yes good to see you here and good to learn force is trying to go customer centric.If you go through the compelete thread carefully, i dont think you need to take a poll all over again!!

1. Almost every one wants to have OM611 CRDi and some have posponed thier buying decision waiting for this engine. so bring it on!

2. Current Gurkha pricing is absurd. Every body says that. So an increase in price with OM 611 crdi engine would kill the product all the more. I expect the vehicle to be priced at 7.5 lakhs on road with CRDi engine

3. Interiors, owners have already commented and i need not eloberate further. Please do away with Premier padmini kind of dash board to a more up market one and provide better a/c controls and all. Quality of vehicle is of supreme importance

4. The factor you must consider the most is your dealer support which you missed in your message. Please make them more customer sensetive and provide them information from company end.

5. Please provide a/c , p/s, 4wd and rear diff lock as an option on GAMA. All this for 6.8 lakh on road

Address the above issues, i dont see any reason for Force not doing 3000 units every month in Gurkha and gama category

[rhandle]

your points on pricing I wont support. I am sure that pricing is not only right but infact cheaper than M&M and Tata.