[amitoj]

Originally Posted by yakherder

I'm primarily an indoor rider, using trainerroad and zwift for weekday indoor rides and the occasional weekend outdoor ride.

Originally Posted by ebonho

Have you given some thought to what happens when you are on the road and do not have Erg mode, and its your legs and gear shifts that need to smoothen out the power and cadence, versus the gradient and elements?

If you ride on Zwift in a non-workout mode, for example a race, group ride or a solo ride, then depending on the route you choose, the elevation changes in the route increase or decrease the resistance of the trainer, forcing you to shift and spin very similar to how you would if you were riding outdoors. I am sure it is the same for trainerroad as well.

Having said that, I mentally discount indoor miles by 25% when comparing with outdoor miles.

EDIT: A Zwift race is hands down THE BEST VO2 Max workout, if you do it properly.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by yakherder

Well indoor is its own ball game nowadays. But yes, getting faster outdoors also figures high on the priority list.

Didn't want to go into detail but meant to say that workouts are easier to execute in erg mode. I've been using a kurt kinetic for about 2 years now and its been great but keeping power steady across intervals was a bit of a chore especially shorter VO2, threshold stuff. Erg lets you know immediately that you are slacking off. Its a great tool for workouts but I don't ride in erg all the time and I don't think anyone should.

Erg or non Erg both give you the power readouts and you know when you're out of the target range.

Erg regardless of your gear selected, or your cadence, locks you into the target power resistance. Which keep auto adjusting depending on how hard or fast you pedal.

That will not happen in the real world.

If you do not train to maintain a steady power indoors, having the machine do it for you, where all you need to do is move the pedals, then you are not going to be able to do that outdoors either. That's the point I'm making.

Those with a power meter have the option of having the power meter output control the smart trainer. In this mode, you get to train your muscles in maintaining steady power, even with a smart trainer. Its called Power Match and most of my friends are or have moved on to it. Over Erg.

You will not see the clean flat lines of Erg mode. But the spikelets that are typical of a wheel on trainer. Since the power reading is taken from the power meter and the trainer provides the resistance to keep the power in the specified range, the mini spikes happen because of the lag between the power meter and the trainer adjusting.

[yakherder]

Originally Posted by ebonho

If you do not train to maintain a steady power indoors, having the machine do it for you, where all you need to do is move the pedals, then you are not going to be able to do that outdoors either. That's the point I'm making.

Those with a power meter have the option of having the power meter output control the smart trainer. In this mode, you get to train your muscles in maintaining steady power, even with a smart trainer. Its called Power Match and most of my friends are or have moved on to it. Over Erg.

I may be wrong but feel like that's exactly what we try to do outdoors. Shift and try to stay in a comfortable cadence range. Not very dissimilar from erg. But hey power is power. If you can do it in erg you can do it without. Its just so much easier and opens up the possibilities to adopt or try different cadences for the same power.

Zwift and TR both have Powermatch so that power is taken from PM and resistance is controlled by trainer. You can still use it in ERG. I don't use it for a couple of reasons. My PM is single sided, so trainer is probably more accurate at least with respect to left-right imbalance. Also a lot of users report latencies when using powermatch i.e. resistance responses to terrain changes etc are slower.

Bottom line is that a smart trainer is not really a necessity. Was not unhappy with my wheel on but direct drive trainers are nice especially for folks like me who ride at odd hours, late nights, early mornings.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by yakherder

I may be wrong but feel like that's exactly what we try to do outdoors. Shift and try to stay in a comfortable cadence range. Not very dissimilar from erg. But hey power is power. If you can do it in erg you can do it without. Its just so much easier and opens up the possibilities to adopt or try different cadences for the same power.

Firstly, I am not putting down smart trainers. Simply questioning Erg. If you go on to YouTube you will find a number of pros and experts with similar sentiments. Its a great dumbed down tool for a new rider to get time in zone. In my opinion.

Coming to what you've written above, that is exactly what Erg does NOT do. You are essentially getting the gist of my argument, but under the mistaken assumption that Erg does do that hence it mirrors real world riding. When actually it does not. The diametric opposite in fact.

In Erg it does NOT matter in which gear tou are. Big ring or small ring. Or cog of the cassette. The trainer will adjust the resistance so that at any given cadence you will be pushing exactly X number of watts.

How does that mirror the real world where you need to take a second to second call in which gear to be in?

Similarly, regardless of your gear you have selected (for an FTP Ramp Test for instance) the machine decides the resistance depending on how fast you spin that gear. If your cadence changes, in the same gear, the machine increases or decreases the resistance accordingly.

How is this similar to the real world, where essentially it is exactly the opposite. Which is, the resistance changes FIRST (gradient, headwind, etc) and to compensate fir that, to pump out a desired number of watts, you then choose the right gear which allows you to spin it at the desired cadence to achieve the desired watts.

How does doing workouts on the trainer in Erg mode prepare you for any/either if these scenarios?

It has only given you dumbed down time in zone. So your power zones are now prined.

Now you only need to learn how to translate it on the road on a cycle that is not attached to a smart trainer.

No such worries for those who've trained on dumb wheel on trainers and learned over countless if hours which gear and cadence works best for which wattage over wgat interval of time (30 sec, 1 min, 2 min, 3 min, 5 min, 10 min, 15 min, 20 min, 30 min, 1 hr).

Do a Ramp Test in Erg mode. And do one on a dumb wheel on trainer. It will illustrate exactly what I've explained above.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by ebonho

How does doing workouts on the trainer in Erg mode prepare you for any/either if these scenarios?

Many workouts have a target rpm zone as well in addition to a power zone. Those structured workouts are a great way to mimic real world climbing, or doing interval trainings, preparing for a race or just for improving your real world cycling. ERG is way more useful tool when combined with target rpm. Many professional trainers even create customized workouts on Zwift for their clients.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by amitoj

Many workouts have a target rpm zone as well in addition to a power zone. Those structured workouts are a great way to mimic real world climbing, or doing interval trainings, preparing for a race or just for improving your real world cycling. ERG is way more useful tool when combined with target rpm. Many professional trainers even create customized workouts on Zwift for their clients.

Granted Amitoj (you have target cadence for the same workouts on wheel on trainers as well).

But it still does not prepare your muscles for holding a steady wattage over a period if time. The machine evens out your spikes. And those spikes are quite huge in a rider who has not trained to hold steady power ... even when target power is a watt range and not a single number.

[yakherder]

Originally Posted by ebonho

But it still does not prepare your muscles for holding a steady wattage over a period if time. The machine evens out your spikes. And those spikes are quite huge in a rider who has not trained to hold steady power ... even when target power is a watt range and not a single number.

Actually it is exactly what it does. Makes you stay in a particular power band regardless of cadence.

It's very helpful because the problem I faced with my old trainer was that I would overshoot the power target for interval initially (arrived by estimating gearing and cadence) then that would dip. Post workout would show target power achieved or overshot for intervals but that would be due to the initial burst of power. Don't need to do that anymore and stay within a narrow power band as is optimal for targeted workouts.

This only happens in the harder workouts and particularly for shorter intervals.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Granted Amitoj (you have target cadence for the same workouts on wheel on trainers as well).

I have to admit that I cannot objectively compare the advantages of wheel on trainer vs a smart trainer, since I never had a wheel-on trainer. And to be honest, it has been a while since I did a workout on my smart trainer, which could be because it has been having calibration issues lately.
But reading the power output and cadence together while climbing virtual hills in Zwift has taught me the importance of spinning over mashing while climbing hills. It is not something I did not know but seeing it in action on the trainer helped solidify the concept for real world riding.
I might have seen this happening in one of the training sessions too.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by yakherder

Actually it is exactly what it does. Makes you stay in a particular power band regardless of cadence.

It's very helpful because the problem I faced with my old trainer was that I would overshoot the power target for interval initially (arrived by estimating gearing and cadence) then that would dip. Post workout would show target power achieved or overshot for intervals but that would be due to the initial burst of power. Don't need to do that anymore and stay within a narrow power band as is optimal for targeted workouts.

This only happens in the harder workouts and particularly for shorter intervals.

Surprised that was happening. Were you not able to see the power real time? On whatever workout device screen you were using?

Assuming you could, the flattening out of that initial burst, and modulating your pedal pressure and gearing (this one is usually arrived at over max a week of doing workouts before you know which gear combination gives you how many comfortable watts range before your cadence gasses out ... 85-95 max sustainable for me for the longer SS and even threshold blocks) and cadence to keep your power curve as close to the interval power block outline as you can, is wgat prepares you for real world riding / racing.

THAT is what you do not get in Erg. What you cannot get.

Time in Zone only primes your energy systems. So much so that most experts agree that even though each energy zone has different hold times in terms of block sizes, eventually most workouts only aim to accrue cumulative time in zone overall by the end of the workout.

Time in zone eventually means nothing on the road if you are not able to replicate it. Spiky power is both wasteful, fatiguing and inefficient. Unless you are in an all out sprint or short explosive effort.

[raycers_honda]

What are some good options for a bike with 21 or more gears within a budget of 15000 rupees?
I am 5'9". Ride approx 20kms a day. Prefer a mtb or hybrid.
Currently use a 26 inch wheel size,21 speed mach City ibike. Would like to upgrade to a bigger size. Please do suggest a suitable bike for me. Thanks in advance.

[BaCkSeAtDrIVeR]

Originally Posted by raycers_honda

What are some good options for a bike with 21 or more gears within a budget of 15000 rupees?
I am 5'9".

You apply the wrong criteria and will end up with wrong selection. Number of Gears means nothing. Well, at least, in your case.

I suggest you consider size M or L (please measure you height accurately and cross check the recommended size in the app or web site) of Decathlon Riverside 120 if your budget is rigid. Or the flat bar version of the triban RC 100 of you can extend the budget.

These models are light weight for the price and in that category. Will make riding enjoyable.

[self_driven]

Hello everyone

After a lot of contemplation, I decided to get a bicycle for weekend rides.

Tried a few options from Decathlon and Firefox at nearby stores but nothing clicked with my limited budget of 15k rupees. I liked the features of Cradiac cycles but wasn't too sure about the brand. The XC900 model that I was interested in wasn't available to try offline and I wasn't comfortable spending 19k without checking it out in person.

Then decided to look for used bikes and checked out a 3-month-old Montra Chord listed at 16k. It was in decent shape except for some deep scratches on multiple parts due to a fall. I went for a short ride and it felt perfectly suited for my height and build. But the scratches were a dealbreaker. Eventually I found a brand new Montra Chord, same model and same color, listed on Flipkart for 19k and took the plunge. The order will be delivered tomorrow and I can't wait to get my hands on it.

I've heard good things about Montra although this seems to be their entry level product. Only time will tell if I made the right choice or not. If any Montra owners are here, please share your experience with the bicycles w.r.t. quality and reliability.

Thanks for reading.

[creative420]

Is this a decent https://dl.flipkart.com/s/5LwE1BuuuN bicycle for a beginner? The beginner is my wife. She’s tall at about 5’10. Else, if anyone can suggest a good bicycle rental service in Bangalore where we can try a few and then buy one.

[akshaymahajan]

Originally Posted by creative420

Is this a decent https://dl.flipkart.com/s/5LwE1BuuuN bicycle for a beginner? The beginner is my wife. She’s tall at about 5’10. Else, if anyone can suggest a good bicycle rental service in Bangalore where we can try a few and then buy one.

I would suggest go to one of the bigger Decathalon stores - you can try a few options there and decide.

[self_driven]

Originally Posted by self_driven

Eventually I found a brand new Montra Chord, same model and same color, listed on Flipkart for 19k and took the plunge. The order will be delivered tomorrow and I can't wait to get my hands on it.

UPDATE

Quite an interesting turn of events over the last few days. On the delivery day, I got a call from courier company that my parcel was damaged in transit and payment will be refunded. Somehow delivery was still attempted and I rejected the package. It was in terrible shape; probably crushed by some heavy vehicle.

Meanwhile, I came across this Montra Downtown 700 at an offline store and finalised the deal at 21k rupees (no accessories except a lock) which I think is a decent price. Although Triban RC100 would've been my first choice at this price, it was not readily available at Decathlon.

I've done a few 10-12 km rides till now (waiting for helmet and lights to arrive) and the Montra feels very well-built and lightweight. Being a hybrid with no suspension, the bicycle is effortless on smooth roads but gets easily unsettled on bad patches. There are some noises here and there (mainly from brakes) but I've been told it will be taken care of at the 1 month service.

Here's a customary picture to end the post. Thanks for reading!