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Old 28th September 2019, 12:49   #46
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Default Re: Electric Cars...through the eyes of a diehard petrol-head

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Originally Posted by sri_tesla View Post

For these 4 segments combined, new electricity requirement will be 32,392 GWh (32.3 TWh) per year. Assuming it takes 10 years to replace all older vehicles it will be 3,23,000 GWh (323 TWh) per year. In FY19 country's total electricity generation was 1,547 TWh. So, if all the new vehicles of 4 major segments becomes EVs overnight, electricity requirement will be just 2% more (32.3/1547) than what we generated in FY19. In 10 years that will be over 20% extra requirement over the current generation which will be easily achievable.

Coming to clean energy, solar and wind capacity and generation grown tremendously in the last 4-5 years in our country. In FY15, solar output is 4.6 TWh. In just 4 years it has grown to 39.27 TWh. Wind capacity also growing at a rapid pace. In the same period (FY15 to FY19) wind output has grown from 28 TWh to 62 TWh. Solar and wind power have become cheaper to build and maintain than just the maintenance costs of older coal plants. Many older coal plants being closed due to higher maintenance costs and pollution and being replaced with wind and solar plants. Adding rooftop solar makes more economical sense for families with individual houses and EV car at home resulting in quicker ROI. Over the time, our electricity emissions and transport emissions will be reduced drastically with EVs and sold/wind energy.
True. I am not going into the calculations part of it. Its not about the generation capacity rather the distribution infra that we should be worried about. Fast chargers cannot operate on the sanctioned KWH for domestic consumption. Generation is mostly under central govt while distribution is solely under state govt. Until there are policy level changes and a single entity supervises both generation and distribution, there will always be bickering. IIRC the north and south indian power grids are not still synced.

I am all for RE. However, ground reality is that RE make up for around 15-20% of generation. Low tariff imposed have not helped. Solar has not picked up. Hydroelectric is monsoon dependant, wind is seasonal. I would still go for thermal and slowly change to RE. EV's adoption/ usage would only reduce vehicular pollution. period.
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Old 28th September 2019, 15:18   #47
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Default Re: Electric Cars...through the eyes of a diehard petrol-head

A great thread, a usual by GTO. Cannot agree more on the pros and cons. You even covered the 'long tailpipe' concern of the EVs. As one member mentioned, the disposing off of the batteries are also a concern.

I read an article (on Financial Times) regarding these concerns and their conclusion is, a small petrol car is environmentally-friendlier than any available EV, after considering the current energy source and the battery technology!! Hope, soon we get better battery technology, clean energy and also our infrastructure will make it practical to own an EV for both city and highway.

I want a hybrid SUV as my next car, in coming 2-4 years.


On the fun side: Since most of the Indians park on street, we'll benefit from an all solar car. Not sure where are we with that technology.

On a different note: Considering the geopolitical affairs, it will be a miracle to make petroleum a history in our life time.
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Old 29th September 2019, 00:33   #48
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Default Re: Electric Cars...through the eyes of a diehard petrol-head

EV might be the future but i m always a bit skeptical about them.
The spontaneous combustion will be addressed with the introduction of magensium solid state batteries and regarding the charging time and range, it will see a major breakthrough with graphene batteries as they charge 5 times faster and have twice as much capacity of a standard Li-ion battery. With Samsung hinting at the launch of a Graphene powered phone, it won't take much time for the tech to trickle down to EVs.
What concerns me majorly is the lack of mechanical and analog controls. Everything will be motor driven and controlled via a chip.Autonomous tech can be hacked sooner or later, having absolute no manual control makes it very risky as we had seen in the incident that happened 2 years ago in the UK when an octavia's crusie control had a mind of its own and ended up ramming into a stationary truck.Here is the link below for those who haven't heard of it.
https://www.theguardian.com/business...ontrol-mystery
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Old 29th September 2019, 15:11   #49
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Default Re: Electric Cars...through the eyes of a diehard petrol-head

Thanks GTO for the thread.

I personally am not ready for the EVs. I have also test driven a Tesla in UAE and the feel is very different as compared to the fossil fuel cars. There was speed (without the sound and feel of a petrol car).

Next few years will see major developments in the EVs and even the batteries and we will see more and more feasible EVs in the market.

When I bought my last car (Infiniti QX50 with a 3.7L V6) my wife asked me if I actually needed such a powerful vehicle. I replied her that its my last chance to buy a V6 and may be when I am out buying my next vehicle it would be an EV.

Like me the market is also prepping up for the EVs. In UAE now malls have charging points, some of the residential buildings have charging points in the parking.
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Old 29th September 2019, 17:20   #50
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Default Re: Electric Cars...through the eyes of a diehard petrol-head

I noticed recently that Amsterdam Schiphol airport has actually replaced a lot of their taxis with Teslas (image from my Instagram story) and apparently 70% of taxi rides from the Schiphol airport is in Teslas. Even in Dubai, itís possible to hail Tesla taxis now (though in the UAE, itís less Ďgreení since they use thermal energy)

I suppose it would only be a matter of time before most cabbies in India shift to electric given their much lower running costs! I can say Iím actually really excited about this EV revolution! With a mixture of changing regulations, environmental awareness amongst the millennials and gen z, cost benefits and wise investments from the Chinese, it should effectively make EVs the de facto choice for most people.

Regarding infrastructure, when mobile phones were first introduced, people were skeptical then on how weíre gonna construct telephone towers that will cover the entire country but today we can enjoy Jioís 4G even in villages so Iím sure with enough political will, public support and most importantly, popular demand, we will be able to construct a charging infrastructure for electric cars coupled with further advances in renewable energies. Iím sure that the future is bright!
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Old 29th September 2019, 18:31   #51
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Default Re: Electric Cars...through the eyes of a diehard petrol-head

End of the day, apart from the running/operating cost, the only question which every one of us would ask oneself (especially for city commute)

How much more on time for me to reach home before battery runs out! Thanks to traffic. The day it becomes more predictable, the adoption would increase.

But thats again the toping. The base still is the power which is produced more by fossil fuels.
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Old 29th September 2019, 19:00   #52
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Default Re: Electric Cars...through the eyes of a diehard petrol-head

Great thread! And shows that the EV revolution is indeed not a slow one as it was expected, its picking speed pretty fast.

However, I was thinking about the challenge in India where power-cuts and load-shedding in summer is still an occurrence. And for that reason, I feel hybrids still make a huge case in India if its made mainstream.
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Old 30th September 2019, 10:38   #53
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Default Re: Electric Cars...through the eyes of a diehard petrol-head

@ GTO - Thanks a lot for putting together this thread. This answers some of the FAQs and also gives a very good insight into what EV has to offer now and where is future heading towards. I am sure within few years EV will become mass market and will be an alternative to ICE. For those who are having 2 cars, EV will definitely be the choice for 2nd car.

I had one question, for one full charge of the battery, what is the typical electricity cost? Is it similar to normal usage of any appliance or charging a mobile or it is in the range of using ACs overnight?
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Old 30th September 2019, 10:46   #54
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Electric cars would be a lot more sustainable if we increase the production through nuclear power plants which are one of the most efficient and safe sources of electricity, but thanks to a few cases of fear mongering, nuclear energy isn't even being pursued by the politicians.
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Old 30th September 2019, 11:31   #55
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Default Re: Electric Cars...through the eyes of a diehard petrol-head

Amazing thread GTO. Exactly what I have been trying to tell my friends and colleagues who are on both ends of the spectrum at the moment: EVs are the ONLY future vs EVs are a hoax.

That being said, there are 2 points i just cannot wrap my head around with the coming EV mainstream-ing and I really hope people smarter than me find a solution:

1. Using coal to power batteries. Just because we cannot see the problem and it's far away from us doesn't mean it doesn't exist. In the end, air pollution is air pollution.

2. The human rights issues surrounding mining of Cobalt, Lithium and other rare metals used in EVs and batteries. Unless new materials are found as cheap and common alternatives, or there are ethical measures in place, I find it unacceptable to buy an EV just as I would not buy a blood diamond.

Thoughts from others?
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Old 30th September 2019, 13:04   #56
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Default Re: Electric Cars...through the eyes of a diehard petrol-head

Great thread. EVs are definitely the future and they are closer than one thinks. The inflexion point in my opinion is very close. With EVs, mobility moves firmly into tech space where disruption is very quick and with idle money looking at areas to invest, very big players are likely to emerge.

As far as environmental impact is concerned, here are a few points:
a) At time of manufacturing - environmental impact at time of manufacturing is limited as compared to environmental impact in course of lifecyle of an automobile. Secondly, EVs may last longer than traditional automobiles due to easier upgrades (with software playing large role), lesser wear and tear, possibility of refurbishing cars by changing battery etc.

b) Environmental impact i.e. pollution during usage - This is of course major chunk of pollution. And with renewable sources of energy getting lot of attention I dont foresee any new coal based thermal power plants getting added. All incremental capacity will be either nuclear or other renewable sources. You cannot in any case fix the whole energy supply chain at one go.

c) EVs are more apt for autonomous vehicles which are likely to make the asset (EVs) work for longer time duration in a day thus reducing environmental impact per passenger km. This is a little far though, perhaps 10+ years

There are more things at play in EV push
- developed nations take the control back. With IC vehicles all production was moving to developing countries. With EVs developed nations can take back control for some time (a few decades). So there will be a lot more push from powerful Governments. US didnt have a new car factory for a long while till Tesla came about.
- lot of idle money chasing new tech which will subsidize the adoption till our habits change.

Personally, I will wait to put my money on a new IC car if there is no immediate need to change.

~m
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Old 30th September 2019, 15:28   #57
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Thank you all for liking this thread & the great discussion. Glad you enjoyed the read .

Here's a review of the Porsche Taycan from one of my favourite websites - full article:

Quote:
“Put your head back, I’m going to hit it,” I began telling him after having neglected to do so the first time and feeling guilty about banging is head so hard into the headrest.

The Porsche Taycan is, in a straight line, an absolute monster.

The acceleration doesn’t stop. Even at Autobahn speeds, banging the right pedal yields so much torque at the wheels that it really doesn’t take a whole lot of road to get the Taycan up to its 161 mph top speed.

Actually, we were able to get the car up to 166.5 mph, so it seems that Porsche’s top speed number is a bit conservative.

As for the sound you hear in the video above on the inside of the cabin, that’s called Porsche Electric Sport Sound, and it’s essentially a synthetic “motion” sound produced by the vehicle’s speakers. Even without that function on, there’s some motor noise when accelerating hard from a stop; the Electric Sport Sound cranks the volume up a bit, but it definitely doesn’t feel over-the-top.
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Old 30th September 2019, 18:44   #58
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Default Re: Electric Cars...through the eyes of a diehard petrol-head

@ GTO - Great thread.

Have cleared my doubts about the electric cars.

I'm in the market looking for a car for my wife, I wish to lay my hands on a electric hatch. It would be fun to drive; good for drive to school, market, temple and other places in and around our home
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Old 30th September 2019, 20:51   #59
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Default Re: Electric Cars...through the eyes of a diehard petrol-head

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Originally Posted by raghu13uk View Post
I read an article (on Financial Times) regarding these concerns and their conclusion is, a small petrol car is environmentally-friendlier than any available EV, after considering the current energy source and the battery technology!!
Here is the article which I read 2 years back. https://on.ft.com/2oEewUc

(This is a gift link and can be opened only few times by non-subscribers. GTO, let me know if you cannot open this link. I'll send a new one to you).
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Old 1st October 2019, 06:21   #60
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Default Re: Electric Cars...through the eyes of a diehard petrol-head

Informative read. Thanks for sharing.

I guess the humble Toyota Prius was a sign of what was possible with a tiny electric motor operating along side the internal combustion engine. The next step was going all electric.

There is a electric car (Mostly Nissan Leaf) community in my office. To these folks, there is no looking back at the internal combustion engine. In the developed world, I see no reason why an electric car can't be your one ride. You can totally do it.

Different scenario in India. Charging infrastructure will take its own sweet time and I can see a situation where we will be fighting at charging stations. What we can do is harness the power of the sun, as we have lots of it. If you have some land along the highway with no immediate plans to build anything on it, rig up your own fossil + solar charging station. Offer a charging service.

What is also a bit unknown is how well these cars can cope in our high heat and humidity conditions. How long will an electric car run in 40 degree Rajasthan heat, or, high humidity Kerala, in typical stop and go conditions.

Audi's TV commercial for the E Tron says you can do everything you want with their new all electric SUV. I believe them. Its got the range. It has the torque and power to handle just about anything you throw at it. It has luxury.

I find it hard to digest that one day, in a car review, there will be almost nothing to talk about the powertrain. It will all be the same. No turbo, no rpm range to talk about, no header modifications or noise from the exhaust, gears will be replaced by ratios (Essentially the same thing), no comparisons of all the different oils you used that makes your engine run smoother. It will be impossible to get your hands dirty. I can't live with that!
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