The home / office air-conditioner thread

Thad E Ginathom · 25th May 2011, 20:23

Advice please?

Just checking that my AC problem is indeed stabilzer-related by swapping out the stabilizers --- but I do not have another 5Kva.

What's the risk in using a 4Kva for a 2-ton AC? (because I'm doing it right now [Blush]) for the next six hours or so. Voltages are expected to be around 190.

T Y A G I · 25th May 2011, 22:30

Hello Sir,

As far as i know it wont be making much difference since the air conditioner is manufactured to work in the voltage range of 220 to 270 and since you are already connecting a 4 KVA stabilizer then you need not worry.If there is anything wrong with the compressor of your Ac then you be prepared for the expenses.

Just for my information could you please tell since how long you have been using this AC ?
I am asking for the sake of the current condition of the cooling coils and the copper tubes which are spread across the AC.If they are in better condition and God forbid if you require to change the compressor ( which is totally based in the current compressor condition ) then you may go ahead and run this unit for other 5 years without any major expenses.

Regards,
Lalit Tyagi

Thad E Ginathom · 26th May 2011, 03:27

This AC already has history!

It is about 3 years old, and since its warranty expired, it's copper tubing has been repaired two or three times. It has also had a new compressor just a few months ago.

I'm almost ready to replace it, but one can solder-and-refill quite a few times for the money spent on a new unit. Maybe next year ... or at the next serious breakdown. I hope it will see us through this summer, and it gets only light usage in the winter.

sgiitk · 26th May 2011, 10:26

@T_Y_A_G_I and Thad; I have not used a stabiliser for over 20 years, Fortunately, both in IITK as well where I live now voltage is pretty good.

190V should be Ok. Make sure that you have a starter/MCB on the circuit. If an induction motor goes into a near stall, current increases, and the MCB will trip.

@Thad' Three years, and multiple repairs. Must be Chennai salt. I have two Videocons' which have done 10 years plus, and one assembled unit which is 15+. Never had any maintenance, except for the routine filter cleaning, and an annual blow/brush down.

hellmet · 26th May 2011, 10:37

We bought 2 split ACs just before this summer, one a Whirlpool Mastermind Chrome, and the other a Voltas Vertis Plus S. The Whirlpool was about 2500 extra on the Voltas but I liked the Indoor unit quality of the Whirlpool when on display at Chroma and went ahead with it for my room. However, my mom wanted the Voltas because it is her father's "trusted" brand for several years. So we purchased a Voltas for her.

Yesterday, about an hour or so after switching it on in the night, my mom woke up astonished to a large thud sound and was quite scared for a few minutes. She thought the outdoor unit (OU) of the AC had fallen off and she immediately turned it off. She went outside (we have the OU in the balcony) and saw nothing of that sort had happened. She turned the A/C on again assuming all was well, but heard some strange sounds from the unit so she switched it off and slept.

When I looked at the OU today morning, I was in horror

. The fan had literally broken to pieces. Here are a few pics:

The home / office air-conditioner thread-img_1772.jpg

The home / office air-conditioner thread-img_1773.jpg

Damage caused to fins, probably due to flying pieces of the fan rubble:

The home / office air-conditioner thread-img_1774.jpg

The home / office air-conditioner thread-img_1776.jpg

The home / office air-conditioner thread-img_1777.jpg

The home / office air-conditioner thread-img_1784.jpg

The home / office air-conditioner thread-img_1788.jpg

The fan seems to be made of fiber or something, the similar kind you find on cheap air-cooler doors. Why use fiber-plastic at all? I thought I bought an AC and not a air-cooler. My whirlpool has metal fans!

It is a mystery how something like this could have happened. The OU is fixed in the balcony totally away from the sun. There were no foreign objects on the floor of the OU so I don't think the fan was obstructed by anything. The only conclusion I can come to right now is inferior quality.

Logged a complaint sometime back and I can expect someone to arrive in 24 working hours, which is 8 X 3 days.

In the end, you get what you pay for, even in the budget market . Buyer beware!!

T Y A G I · 26th May 2011, 10:53

Hello Sir,

Since you have already faced the problems with this AC then here are suggestions which you may consider and act upon in case you find it useful enough.

1. Get this AC throughly checked and repair the coils by a local but efficient mechanic.

2. Try to check the brand of the AC which are being used in the same locality by your neighbors and get their overall feedback.Its easy to identify from outside as well since all the brands put their symbol on the outer cover of the Ac be it window or split.

3. If you have three phase energy meter then try to shift the load of this AC on a separate phase which is not used for other loads in your home.

4.Use a 4 Sq. mm wiring directly from that separate phase to the AC MCB and see the result.

5. Try to shield the Ac from the outer environment i.e. direct sunlight, dust, smoke and try to clean the inner filter once a week.

6. Last but not the least exchange this AC in case everything fails for the brand which is successfully running in your neighborhood.

Do post your AC response after you used that 4 KVA stabilizer last night with this 2 ton unit.

SGIITK Sir,

I have to use the stabilizer since in our locality normal voltage is 270+ V and we have electricity department step down transformer just few meter away from our home which steps from 11000 V to 440 V. And the out put from that transformer is being fed to only10 or 15 homes which are having as a default 3 phase AC supply and a load of 5 KVA for each floor.And in this locality each plot have 3 flats built.

Regards,
Lalit Tyagi

SRK · 26th May 2011, 11:45

Thats looks very strange.

Could be the inferior quality of material or worse a design flaw.
Are you sure the fan was not obstructed by any protudings within the OU itself?

It was nice that the fan pieces did not fly out from the openings, else could have caused damage to others.

scuderiamania · 26th May 2011, 11:50

Well, it could have been a one off case. My father has been using a voltas vertis plus window 1.5T for about 4 years now and, touch wood, it hasn't thrown up any such surprises till now.

sgiitk · 26th May 2011, 12:23

If it is 270+ and stable you may be better off with a manual stabiliser (?) set to reduce the voltage.

ph03n!x · 26th May 2011, 12:29

Surprising. We had a Voltas window unit, and have a split unit. I've also known die-hard Voltas buyers for its longevity - apparently a lot of ACs in my area rust easily (stone's throw from the beach), but not Voltas. Also, it is surprising the fan can break like this - is the balcony prone to rodents or something on similar lines?

I will check my AC later to see what fans they have - fiber or metal...

T Y A G I · 26th May 2011, 13:32

SGIITK Sir,

We are having the automatic stabilizers been recommended by the dealer ( In case of 2*1.5 ton window LG, its locally made stabilizer brand called MAC ) which I am ok with since its o/p is 220 V constantly even when i/p is 270+, since dealer will be the one who will suffer in case the unit gets faulty as they are my father's old friend.

And in the case of latest buy Hitachi , its also a local brand LOGICOOL, which i am testing now, strangely it shows 220 as i/p as well as o/p.May be I will be going to the dealer to get it changed with the other unit.

Regards,
Lalit Tyagi

hellmet · 26th May 2011, 14:20

I'm sure I don't see any debris that might have caused this. And since this is a blower (pretty powerful at that) and not sucking air, I don't see how anything might have found it's way into the unit.

Re: rodents we do not have any issue of them in our apartment building. We've seen a couple of lizards once in a while but they would be squished before they would do the fan any harm.

This is most probably a design flaw / poor quality / lack of testing of fan in the unit.

Thad E Ginathom · 26th May 2011, 15:01

Tyagi, thanks... we have three-phase supply. We have three ACs, and each is connected to a different phase.

Three three stabilisers are mounted together near the distribution box, to keep the rooms clear. Each AC has a wall "switch" which is actually an MCB, and also has its own MCB in the distribution box. Like this:

A/C ---> Local breaker ---> Stabiliser ---> [ MCB ---> 3-phase breaker ]---> Phase Switcher ---> Mains Isolating Switch --->EB fuses ---> Main Phase supply

[ indicates the distribution box ]

It is not unusual for us to loose one phase for a short time. When this happens, I make sure that the remaining 2 phases never have to support more than one AC each. This is not difficult, as we would almost never need to run three ACs.

There was no apparent ill effect from using the 4Kva instead of 5Kva in the night.

The Premier engineer has visited: he says that there is nothing that he can do onsite, but if we take the unit to their office, the relays can be changed. At the time of his visit, he could find no fault.

Hellmet: What a scary thing to happen! I think your AC is very, very lucky that it seems to have suffered only minimal, repairable, damage. I doubt that there is any intrinsic problem with the fan material, but, in this case, there must have been a manufacturing fault.

T Y A G I · 26th May 2011, 15:26

Hello Thad Sir,

Please make sure that your AC is thoroughly checked by some other mechanic as well since it pays to be doubly sure rather than just getting it checked by the same old engineer or mechanic.If its a matter of relay failure then be prompt on a superior quality relay since they are really helpful in running the heavy loads like AC and that too a 2 ton unit in efficient manner.
Also be sure that the Ac is checked in your presence rather than relying solely on the service center.

Regards,
Lalit Tyagi

Thad E Ginathom · 26th May 2011, 17:41

At this moment, we have an engineer finishing work on out Premier 5Kv stabiliser. We called the local company that provided service for our APC UPSs. He believes he has located a fault and replaced the part.

As this is a fault that occurs only after several hours running... time will tell!

So far as our regular AC mechanic is concerned, he may be good, but he is too busy (I guess the good ones are) and we can never get hold of him for service.

25th May 2011, 20:23	#1906
Thad E Ginathom Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 11,205 Thanked: 28,233 Times	re: The home / office air-conditioner thread Advice please? Just checking that my AC problem is indeed stabilzer-related by swapping out the stabilizers --- but I do not have another 5Kva. What's the risk in using a 4Kva for a 2-ton AC? (because I'm doing it right now [Blush]) for the next six hours or so. Voltages are expected to be around 190.
	() Thanks

25th May 2011, 22:30	#1907
T Y A G I BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 46 Thanked: 24 Times	re: The home / office air-conditioner thread Hello Sir, As far as i know it wont be making much difference since the air conditioner is manufactured to work in the voltage range of 220 to 270 and since you are already connecting a 4 KVA stabilizer then you need not worry.If there is anything wrong with the compressor of your Ac then you be prepared for the expenses. Just for my information could you please tell since how long you have been using this AC ? I am asking for the sake of the current condition of the cooling coils and the copper tubes which are spread across the AC.If they are in better condition and God forbid if you require to change the compressor ( which is totally based in the current compressor condition ) then you may go ahead and run this unit for other 5 years without any major expenses. Regards, Lalit Tyagi
	(1) Thanks

26th May 2011, 03:27	#1908
Thad E Ginathom Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 11,205 Thanked: 28,233 Times	re: The home / office air-conditioner thread This AC already has history! It is about 3 years old, and since its warranty expired, it's copper tubing has been repaired two or three times. It has also had a new compressor just a few months ago. I'm almost ready to replace it, but one can solder-and-refill quite a few times for the money spent on a new unit. Maybe next year ... or at the next serious breakdown. I hope it will see us through this summer, and it gets only light usage in the winter.
	() Thanks

26th May 2011, 10:26	#1909
sgiitk Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gurugram Posts: 7,971 Thanked: 4,796 Times	re: The home / office air-conditioner thread @T_Y_A_G_I and Thad; I have not used a stabiliser for over 20 years, Fortunately, both in IITK as well where I live now voltage is pretty good. 190V should be Ok. Make sure that you have a starter/MCB on the circuit. If an induction motor goes into a near stall, current increases, and the MCB will trip. @Thad' Three years, and multiple repairs. Must be Chennai salt. I have two Videocons' which have done 10 years plus, and one assembled unit which is 15+. Never had any maintenance, except for the routine filter cleaning, and an annual blow/brush down.
	(1) Thanks

26th May 2011, 10:37	#1910
hellmet BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: GTA \| GHMC Posts: 888 Thanked: 1,031 Times	Voltas Vertis Plus: Outdoor Unit Fan in pieces We bought 2 split ACs just before this summer, one a Whirlpool Mastermind Chrome, and the other a Voltas Vertis Plus S. The Whirlpool was about 2500 extra on the Voltas but I liked the Indoor unit quality of the Whirlpool when on display at Chroma and went ahead with it for my room. However, my mom wanted the Voltas because it is her father's "trusted" brand for several years. So we purchased a Voltas for her. Yesterday, about an hour or so after switching it on in the night, my mom woke up astonished to a large thud sound and was quite scared for a few minutes. She thought the outdoor unit (OU) of the AC had fallen off and she immediately turned it off. She went outside (we have the OU in the balcony) and saw nothing of that sort had happened. She turned the A/C on again assuming all was well, but heard some strange sounds from the unit so she switched it off and slept. When I looked at the OU today morning, I was in horror . The fan had literally broken to pieces. Here are a few pics: Damage caused to fins, probably due to flying pieces of the fan rubble: The fan seems to be made of fiber or something, the similar kind you find on cheap air-cooler doors. Why use fiber-plastic at all? I thought I bought an AC and not a air-cooler. My whirlpool has metal fans! It is a mystery how something like this could have happened. The OU is fixed in the balcony totally away from the sun. There were no foreign objects on the floor of the OU so I don't think the fan was obstructed by anything. The only conclusion I can come to right now is inferior quality. Logged a complaint sometime back and I can expect someone to arrive in 24 working hours, which is 8 X 3 days. In the end, you get what you pay for, even in the budget market . Buyer beware!!
	() Thanks

26th May 2011, 10:53	#1911
T Y A G I BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 46 Thanked: 24 Times	re: The home / office air-conditioner thread Hello Sir, Since you have already faced the problems with this AC then here are suggestions which you may consider and act upon in case you find it useful enough. 1. Get this AC throughly checked and repair the coils by a local but efficient mechanic. 2. Try to check the brand of the AC which are being used in the same locality by your neighbors and get their overall feedback.Its easy to identify from outside as well since all the brands put their symbol on the outer cover of the Ac be it window or split. 3. If you have three phase energy meter then try to shift the load of this AC on a separate phase which is not used for other loads in your home. 4.Use a 4 Sq. mm wiring directly from that separate phase to the AC MCB and see the result. 5. Try to shield the Ac from the outer environment i.e. direct sunlight, dust, smoke and try to clean the inner filter once a week. 6. Last but not the least exchange this AC in case everything fails for the brand which is successfully running in your neighborhood. Do post your AC response after you used that 4 KVA stabilizer last night with this 2 ton unit. SGIITK Sir, I have to use the stabilizer since in our locality normal voltage is 270+ V and we have electricity department step down transformer just few meter away from our home which steps from 11000 V to 440 V. And the out put from that transformer is being fed to only10 or 15 homes which are having as a default 3 phase AC supply and a load of 5 KVA for each floor.And in this locality each plot have 3 flats built. Regards, Lalit Tyagi Last edited by T Y A G I : 26th May 2011 at 11:03. Reason: kind revert to sgiitk sir for using the stabilizer in my home for AC.
	() Thanks

26th May 2011, 11:45	#1912
SRK Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,205 Thanked: 536 Times	Re: Voltas Vertis Plus: Outdoor Unit Fan in pieces Thats looks very strange. Could be the inferior quality of material or worse a design flaw. Are you sure the fan was not obstructed by any protudings within the OU itself? It was nice that the fan pieces did not fly out from the openings, else could have caused damage to others.
	() Thanks

26th May 2011, 11:50	#1913
scuderiamania BHPian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Kolkata Posts: 363 Thanked: 173 Times	Re: Voltas Vertis Plus: Outdoor Unit Fan in pieces Well, it could have been a one off case. My father has been using a voltas vertis plus window 1.5T for about 4 years now and, touch wood, it hasn't thrown up any such surprises till now.
	() Thanks

26th May 2011, 12:23	#1914
sgiitk Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Gurugram Posts: 7,971 Thanked: 4,796 Times	re: The home / office air-conditioner thread If it is 270+ and stable you may be better off with a manual stabiliser (?) set to reduce the voltage.
	() Thanks

26th May 2011, 12:29	#1915
ph03n!x Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Coimbatore Posts: 2,589 Thanked: 6,090 Times	Re: Voltas Vertis Plus: Outdoor Unit Fan in pieces Surprising. We had a Voltas window unit, and have a split unit. I've also known die-hard Voltas buyers for its longevity - apparently a lot of ACs in my area rust easily (stone's throw from the beach), but not Voltas. Also, it is surprising the fan can break like this - is the balcony prone to rodents or something on similar lines? I will check my AC later to see what fans they have - fiber or metal...
	() Thanks

26th May 2011, 13:32	#1916
T Y A G I BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 46 Thanked: 24 Times	re: The home / office air-conditioner thread SGIITK Sir, We are having the automatic stabilizers been recommended by the dealer ( In case of 2*1.5 ton window LG, its locally made stabilizer brand called MAC ) which I am ok with since its o/p is 220 V constantly even when i/p is 270+, since dealer will be the one who will suffer in case the unit gets faulty as they are my father's old friend. And in the case of latest buy Hitachi , its also a local brand LOGICOOL, which i am testing now, strangely it shows 220 as i/p as well as o/p.May be I will be going to the dealer to get it changed with the other unit. Regards, Lalit Tyagi
	() Thanks

26th May 2011, 14:20	#1917
hellmet BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: GTA \| GHMC Posts: 888 Thanked: 1,031 Times	Re: Voltas Vertis Plus: Outdoor Unit Fan in pieces I'm sure I don't see any debris that might have caused this. And since this is a blower (pretty powerful at that) and not sucking air, I don't see how anything might have found it's way into the unit. Re: rodents we do not have any issue of them in our apartment building. We've seen a couple of lizards once in a while but they would be squished before they would do the fan any harm. This is most probably a design flaw / poor quality / lack of testing of fan in the unit.
	() Thanks

26th May 2011, 15:01	#1918
Thad E Ginathom Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 11,205 Thanked: 28,233 Times	re: The home / office air-conditioner thread Tyagi, thanks... we have three-phase supply. We have three ACs, and each is connected to a different phase. Three three stabilisers are mounted together near the distribution box, to keep the rooms clear. Each AC has a wall "switch" which is actually an MCB, and also has its own MCB in the distribution box. Like this: A/C ---> Local breaker ---> Stabiliser ---> [ MCB ---> 3-phase breaker ]---> Phase Switcher ---> Mains Isolating Switch --->EB fuses ---> Main Phase supply [ indicates the distribution box ] It is not unusual for us to loose one phase for a short time. When this happens, I make sure that the remaining 2 phases never have to support more than one AC each. This is not difficult, as we would almost never need to run three ACs. There was no apparent ill effect from using the 4Kva instead of 5Kva in the night. The Premier engineer has visited: he says that there is nothing that he can do onsite, but if we take the unit to their office, the relays can be changed. At the time of his visit, he could find no fault. Hellmet: What a scary thing to happen! I think your AC is very, very lucky that it seems to have suffered only minimal, repairable, damage. I doubt that there is any intrinsic problem with the fan material, but, in this case, there must have been a manufacturing fault.
	() Thanks

26th May 2011, 15:26	#1919
T Y A G I BHPian Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Delhi Posts: 46 Thanked: 24 Times	re: The home / office air-conditioner thread Hello Thad Sir, Please make sure that your AC is thoroughly checked by some other mechanic as well since it pays to be doubly sure rather than just getting it checked by the same old engineer or mechanic.If its a matter of relay failure then be prompt on a superior quality relay since they are really helpful in running the heavy loads like AC and that too a 2 ton unit in efficient manner. Also be sure that the Ac is checked in your presence rather than relying solely on the service center. Regards, Lalit Tyagi
	() Thanks

26th May 2011, 17:41	#1920
Thad E Ginathom Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chennai Posts: 11,205 Thanked: 28,233 Times	re: The home / office air-conditioner thread At this moment, we have an engineer finishing work on out Premier 5Kv stabiliser. We called the local company that provided service for our APC UPSs. He believes he has located a fault and replaced the part. As this is a fault that occurs only after several hours running... time will tell! So far as our regular AC mechanic is concerned, he may be good, but he is too busy (I guess the good ones are) and we can never get hold of him for service.
	() Thanks