[shancz]

Originally Posted by Atr

No, that I wasn't aware of. How can I get it down ??

If it's still needed, report your post using the warning icon at the bottom left of the related post and request the modifications you need.

Thanks for the insight which reaffirms my belief.
Honda's decision to press on with the 2 car portfolio (Jazz and WRV don't make significant numbers anymore) while launching new products in SE Asia since 5+ years, when the market here was heating up and how, gave clear indication of their plans for India.
It's not a matter of if but when, IMHO.

The petrol head in me will always wish for the iVTECs to be around but the reality isn't very promising.

[Gotcha]

Same Honda company is managed very well and thriving in Thailand and other SEA markets but performs very poorly in India. Seems like the management team from Thailand has some aversion towards Indian market or Indians in general.

They must rejig the company so that it operates directly as a 100% subsidiary of Honda Japan. It's currently being run like a second fiddle to Honda Thailand and hence the lack of focus and drive.

[ron178]

Please feel free to skip reading this because it might sound like nonsense, and though I'm forcing myself to believe it, I don't know how far it's true:

I think Honda has suffered a lot from all of the 'build quality' stuff that's been going around on the internet in recent years. You sell a car that's fuel-efficient, reliable, practical, naturally aspirated and lightly built. Ring a bell? It gets grouped with the market leader. And in every debate I've seen on the whole 'build quality' deal, Honda has always been on the Maruti side. The problem is that extended to safety too. It's always "Rapid vs Ciaz/City" or "Aspire vs Dzire/Amaze". And, please trust me when I say this, I have nothing personal against Maruti. But the public does, and I don't feel good saying it, but I've seen it online, offline, even on Team-BHP - outright rejection. And there's the obvious linking of crashworthiness with body panel thickness by social media. And that then extends to other brands. Toyota saved itself by having the Etios independently crash-tested. People use that argument even today while suggesting Toyotas. No such case for Honda (the Mobilio was neither here nor there). The general opinion I've seen about Hondas everywhere recently is 'overpriced Marutis'. I highly doubt many current Honda buyers are actually the kind looking for safety (the new City's equipment list is a different story). For Honda India the safety-conscious buyers seem like the other end of the market.




But I don't think Honda's marketing team have even caught a whiff of the hugely growing demand for safer cars yet. And I don't even know if they know that they're being dragged to the deep end of the pool by social media.

Either that, or maybe there's actually some 'India-spec dilution' going on, which I find very hard to believe* considering how well they developed the SA-spec Amaze, which barely sells a hundred units a month there, and mostly to fleets. (*still hard to trust without a valid result)


With the right actions and possibly zero changes to the car itself, Honda can make that 16.58/17.00 for the Indian car (2pts kneemapping+0.5pt passenger-side SBR) and a five star result (+R95 side impact). That could not only be a five star result but would also be better than any result published for India so far (the image is the African-spec).

Am I mad for thinking a good NCAP result could suddenly drag an OEM out of a situation like this? Perhaps. But I still don't see the harm in at least trying, but of course my theory sounds like an excuse stemming from a very long-winding chain of events that probably started with me being far too curious about the safety performance of Indian Hondas.

I don't know if it's the BR-V, Brio and Mobilio's failures that make Honda skeptical of further investments in India. It's very likely that is the case, but Honda brought it on themselves by making the "made-for-developing-markets" nature far too obvious. I do think they've already bounced back from that phase now, they've launched some competitive products and that hasn't repeated. They've done it with the City, they've done it with the new Amaze. Both have helped them achieve >10,000 units a month, which sounds like a good baseline. I mean, there are a lot of manufacturers doing far worse in terms of sales figures (not sure about profits). Perhaps they're shy of stepping into the SUV segment again after what happened with the BR-V.

Somehow, I just cannot imagine an Indian car market without Honda, and I'm sure my extended family will be devastated (you could almost call the Honda City a tradition).

[anshuman1117]

Went to checkout the new Slavia today in Moti Nagar/Kirti Nagar and popped into the Skoda, Kia and Honda showrooms today. Both Skoda and Kia were full of people checking out the new offerings with multiple SAs around. Felt like a festival really.

But the Honda showroom looked like a dilapidated government office, on the verge of falling down. Lone SA, and the lone City VX display car had all kinds of stuff breaking apart in it. It even had its request sensors on doors broken, the fabric upholstery was soiled and the car was in a depressive state really.

They had sold off their Jazz and had no stocks of either Jazz or WRV. SA was keen to sell City and apparently the Ring Road Honda group in Delhi has lots of city's in stock ready to deliver.

[thanixravindran]

To all those who are suggesting Honda (or any other OEM) to introduce international models here, it is not going to happen. Those models need localization and more importantly the production line set-up/reconfiguration which warrants factory investment.

Globally all OEM's are saving the penny for the EV onslaught except for cases like VW India 2.0 project (8000 Crores?) which probably is the last big ticket investment in this space by existing companies. Otherwise, the production line investment needs to be justified with large export base which I don't think Honda/Toyota has.

I hope Honda stays as for many people Sedan = Honda City for the space and plush ride it offers and with a strong brand recognition they can survive.

[FrozeninTime]

I am in dilemma whether to sell my 2020 Honda City as I am worried about after sales support if Honda shuts shop.

[kosjam]

Originally Posted by FrozeninTime

I am in dilemma whether to sell my 2020 Honda City as I am worried about after sales support if Honda shuts shop.

People bought FORD vehicles AFTER they shut shop, and you are worried about something which will happen in the future

On a serious note, i dont think you need to sell your Honda City unless you dont like the vehicle and are looking for a reason to get rid of it. Even when Honda does shut shop, they will maintain a supply of spares for existing customers, which are in the lakhs. Be assured, the spare parts supply will outlive your urge to renew your car

[sunikkat]

If Honda leaves, it will be like giving almost a full segment (albeit small) in platter to Skoda Slavia. This will again kill competition and customers will be impacted.
My recent showroom experiences when checking out Jazz was also not great. The showroom was dull with low lighting, unenthusiastic sales guys and did not give a positive vibe. The experience partly contributed in my decision to not go for Jazz.
Hope the news is not true. Though I am not a fan of Honda (other than old City), there is no denying to the fact that Indians had some emotions attached to Honda. There was a time when City was middle class desire. A lot of people still consider Honda to quality. Honda was like what Sony was in TVs. Even in my family circle there were people who had bought Activa because of their Civic and they only wanted Honda vehicles in their garage.
Just couple of right product launches and they can revive in India. But that would need a huge investment, and at this stage when future is not clear with EV adoption, I doubt Honda will do that.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by FrozeninTime

I am in dilemma whether to sell my 2020 Honda City as I am worried about after sales support if Honda shuts shop.

This is a valid concern. Supplies will be there for a 7 to 8 years but resale value would diminish. however Honda, being a Japanese company, and not an American one, is not likely to pack bags in a knee jerk way and up and leave. As you car is rather new hold on to it. Don't knock your self with a huge resale loss yet. 8 years from now all ICE cars will sell at very low prices in the second hand market so the difference caused by Honda's presence or absence is limited. All the best.

[Pequod]

I had almost finalised the City Petrol ZX MT as a replacement to my 2016 Ecosport, and then this! Still toying with the idea of going ahead though, because there’s really nothing else in the segment / budget that offers a similar mix to the City - reliability, safety (not looking at it from a star rating perspective), comfort, space - and when you need it - driving fun for the average Indian drive!

[poloman]

Can some one explain what is wrong with Indian market that OEMs are leaving in droves? Why should they leave the third or fourth largest passenger car market in the world?Is it buyer apathy or govt policies? Is this happening in similar markets like Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Philippines etc?
I don't think EV is an excuse, Something is seriously wrong.

[abhi_tjet]

This news came at right time. My brother-in-law is looking to get a new car and he trusts me that I will select the right car for him.
I will now definitely stay away from Honda.

[FrozeninTime]

Originally Posted by poloman

Can some one explain what is wrong with Indian market that OEMs are leaving in droves?

I would list following reasons:

1.Knee jerk government policies from introduction of BS6, NCAP. This is the main reason.
2.The salaried class in India don't have income income like are ASEAN neighbours leading to stagnation in market.
3. High cost of operation due to taxes, low worker productivity.
4. Lack of proper market research leading to launch of either high cost or unsuitable products.

[sierrabravo98]

Originally Posted by FrozeninTime

I would list following reasons:

1.Knee jerk government policies from introduction of BS6, NCAP. This is the main reason.
2.The salaried class in India don't have income income like are ASEAN neighbours leading to stagnation in market.
3. High cost of operation due to taxes, low worker productivity.
4. Lack of proper market research leading to launch of either high cost or unsuitable products.

1.) Most of the countries you mentioned have similar, if not tougher, norms.
2.) Absolutely not when you see the sales number of >20L vehicles in India.
3.) 1st part maybe true. I cannot comment on the second part.
4.) Absolutely true!!

[Torque_Curve]

Was Ram87Pune's post on Honda apparently planning to sell their Tapukara plant taken down? Can't seem to find it anymore.
Any updates on the same mods?