[CEF_Beasts]

Jazz and City 4th gen getting 4 stars in the GNCAP will surely help Honda India moving forward, it’s highly likely that the other cars in their lineup are also 4 star ones, like the WR-V and City 5th gen.

The City 4th gen didn’t feel like a solid car and had a light build, still getting 4 stars is a good thing.

[saisree]

Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts

Jazz and City 4th gen getting 4 stars in the GNCAP will surely help Honda India moving forward, it’s highly likely that the other cars in their lineup are also 4 star ones, like the WR-V and City 5th gen.
The City 4th gen didn’t feel like a solid car and had a light build, still getting 4 stars is a good thing.

Jazz that is in sale in India weighs 1007 (P) & 1130 (D). The one in test weighs 1252 Kgs

4th Gen City is India weighs 1065(p) & 1165(D). The one in test weighs 1260 Kgs

So the tested ones can be Thailand or Indonesia models. But, we can assume structural stability is same across the versions despite where it is being sold.

[sierrabravo98]

Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts

The City 4th gen didn’t feel like a solid car and had a light build, still getting 4 stars is a good thing.

No Honda City ever sold in India (or anywhere else for that matter) "felt" like a solid car. That weight saving is why City's were famous for their FE.

Originally Posted by saisree

Jazz that is in sale in India weighs 1007 (P) & 1130 (D). The one in test weighs 1252 Kgs

4th Gen City is India weighs 1065(p) & 1165(D). The one in test weighs 1260 Kgs

So the tested ones can be Thailand or Indonesia models. But, we can assume structural stability is same across the versions despite where it is being sold.

Tested Weight is different from Kerb Weight. Tested Weight includes weight of dummies and other testing equipment inside the vehicle (which is a more realistic scenario) whereas kerb weight is generally the dry weight of the vehicle. So NO, ASEAN models were not tested. And even if they were tested, ASEAN models of the City have mostly weighed almost (almost because of different measuring practices in different countries) the same as the Indian models.

[Dead_Pedal]

Originally Posted by saisree

So the tested ones can be Thailand or Indonesia models. But, we can assume structural stability is same across the versions despite where it is being sold.

I think nowhere in the world other than India does Jazz get chrome door handles so, I think this should be the Indian model. Maybe, a lame way to make myself feel better as a Jazz owner but, yeah.

[Swarup5]

What baffles me is why does it take so many years(~5 if not more before Jazz was released) for Honda to send their Jazz and City 4G for GNCAP testing.

Why not just send the latest 5G City which is the current flagship and get some sales numbers going instead. Honda should really stop living in the past and focus on the future. OEMs are sending the cars for testing even before they sell in the open market( eg. XUV700 ).

[tbppjpr]

Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts

The City 4th gen didn’t feel like a solid car and had a light build, still getting 4 stars is a good thing. ]

Body-shell was rated 'unstable' which is the primary factor in ensuring safety. So seems like the stars were scored just on the basis of the secondary safety features. Star rating alone doesn't tell the whole story.

[ron178]

Originally Posted by Swarup5

What baffles me is why does it take so many years(~5 if not more before Jazz was released) for Honda to send their Jazz and City 4G for GNCAP testing.

OEMs are sending the cars for testing even before they sell in the open market( eg. XUV700 ).

In this case the tests were not sponsored by Honda, they were part of a random selection of cars by Global NCAP. Only the 2-airbag Mobilio in 2016 was sponsored by Honda.

Originally Posted by Dead_Pedal

I think nowhere in the world other than India does Jazz get chrome door handles so, I think this should be the Indian model. Maybe, a lame way to make myself feel better as a Jazz owner but, yeah.

It is a car purchased in India.

Originally Posted by saisree

4th Gen City is India weighs 1065(p) & 1165(D). The one in test weighs 1260 Kgs

As @sierrabravo98 mentions, the test mass includes both adult dummies, child dummies, child seats (at discretion of manufacturer), and the onboard data acquisition equipment for the test. In all cases it is significantly higher than the kerb mass.

Originally Posted by sierrabravo98

(almost because of different measuring practices in different countries)

Governments, yes, but all of the NCAPs share common protocols for measuring test mass etc. because the test has to be repeatable across the world.


Can't help quoting myself from last week after these results:

Originally Posted by ron178

Toyota saved itself by having the Etios independently crash-tested. People use that argument even today while suggesting Toyotas. No such case for Honda (the Mobilio was neither here nor there).

I still wish one of the more popular or relevant Hondas was tested.

Also, Honda doesn't appear to be interested in using the result in communication and I wish they did. The City's four star child occupant protection rating, especially, is quite impressive, especially considering it's a model launched in 2014 when Global NCAP had just started testing in India (but it had only a driver's airbag as standard then). Even the adult protection rating, though it showed room for improvement, is good.

In fact, in Latin America, Honda was the first manufacturer ever to use a Latin NCAP result as a sales argument when the 2012 City had achieved four stars for adults and children, scoring 12.03 for adults, coincidentally the exact score of the fourth-gen Indian one (though without seatbelt reminders).

Honda is the first brand to recognize Latin NCAP tests
More than three years after the creation of Latin NCAP - the FIA agency in charge of evaluating the safety of cars sold in the region - Honda today became the first automotive company to recognize the validity of the results and use them as a strategy to promote its models.

This recognition of Latin NCAP, it must also be said, came from the side of a brand that obtained good results, and not from others that were harshly questioned by the organization.

The City, a unit that Latin NCAP bought in Brazil and that subjected to a crash test in Germany, obtained four stars in adult protection and four stars in child protection.

Carlos Macaya, president of the FIA Foundation, told Autoblog yesterday after the press conference held at INTI that he hopes that "soon automotive companies will begin to strive to manufacture safer vehicles and use LatinNCAP stars as a sales argument for their models, as has happened for a decade with EuroNCAP ratings."

Honda's laundering this morning on LatinNCAP will surely open the door to the dissemination of the results in many media that until now ignored and even questioned the validity of these tests.

Honda Argentina press release

Buenos Aires, November 2012 - The New Car Assessment Program for Latin America and the Caribbean (Latin NCAP) designated Honda City 2013 as one of the safest cars of the year, granting it a 4-star safety score, highlighting the strength of the structure, airbags and seat belts.

In addition, for the first time Latin NCAP awarded 4 stars to child occupant protection and the City 2013 was one of the outstanding models for incorporating the child restraint system with ISOFIX, which plays a fundamental role in vehicle safety by reducing the likelihood of incorrect installation and improving dynamic performance in general.

"We are very proud to receive this recognition from such a respected entity in terms of road safety as Latin NCAP. At Honda we have made a commitment to offer increasingly safe and high quality vehicles. That is why this important recognition encourages us to continue our efforts to ensure better and safer mobility for future generations," said Martín De Gaetani, Gte of Institutional Relations.

I would be very pleased to see this rating on Honda's website and in brochures. The last 'global' manufacturer to actively use a GNCAP rating in communications was Toyota, with the Etios. Volkswagen only celebrated the Polo's result for a day and then once again as a rebuttal when Rajiv Bajaj claimed the Qute was safer than the Polo.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by tbppjpr

Body-shell was rated 'unstable' which is the primary factor in ensuring safety. So seems like the stars were scored just on the basis of the secondary safety features. Star rating alone doesn't tell the whole story.

No, its not that straight forward. The "unstable" bodyshell rating, is for "further loading". I.e. - the vehicle may or may not perform equally in case of an impact at higher speed than the standard speed at which the test is performed. The car has done well at the standard test speed of impact.

In real world, majority of the mishaps happen at the standard or lower speeds since most drivers get a chance to react and apply brakes before the impact. So I feel discounting a car simply because the body-shell is rated unstable, won't be right.

[Turbokick]

Originally Posted by saisree

Jazz that is in sale in India weighs 1007 (P) & 1130 (D). The one in test weighs 1252 Kgs

4th Gen City is India weighs 1065(p) & 1165(D). The one in test weighs 1260 Kgs

So the tested ones can be Thailand or Indonesia models. But, we can assume structural stability is same across the versions despite where it is being sold.

Jazz V MT model weighs 1042 kg. while City SV model weighs 1061 kg.

The weight mentioned the tests includes the weight of the dummy to simulate real world momentum in case of a crash.

[CEF_Beasts]

Honda Motor Co., has appointed Takuya Tsumura as the new President & CEO of Honda Cars India. He takes charge from April 1, 2022, consequent to the management changes announced annually by Honda Motor Co. Tsumura will take over from Gaku Nakanishi, who moves from India to regional headquarters in Asia and Oceania region - Asian Honda as General Manager, Automobile Business for the region.



Link

[Vid6639]

Things are going to get a lot harder for Honda from now on.

In the last week Honda has had 2 huge headaches come up.

The Slavia package, pricing and option of 2 engines with 2 AT boxes means the Slavia is now right up there in competing with the City. IMO the City has a good engine but nothing else going for it anymore when compared to Slavia.

With the 1.0L pricing being not even 1 lakh more over the City ZX and offering comparable performance, better build, euro car dynamics and a reliable TC gearbox that is more engaging than the CVT, Honda is going to really feel the heat.

To top it off Maruti has updated the Baleno and come out with features unheard of in this segment at pricing same as before and comparable to the Jazz.

Honda better have something planned up its sleeve. This is not looking good for their roadmap in India.

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

With the 1.0L pricing being not even 1 lakh more over the City ZX and offering comparable performance, better build, euro car dynamics and a reliable TC gearbox that is more engaging than the CVT, Honda is going to really feel the heat.

Its worth noting though, that the City ZX packs a sucker punch in terms of the feature list. Its a proven reliable car that suddenly appears rather VFM compared to the Slavia IMO. The key aspect that will work against the City - is actually anti-incumbency. Slavia's USP is that it is "all new".

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Honda better have something planned up its sleeve. This is not looking good for their roadmap in India.

Even the hope of something planned is small IMO. Honda is the one carmaker who's test mules of any car are not spotted in recent months. If no mules seen - probably even cosmetic updates are not planned for next quarter or two, let alone a new product entry anywhere.

Just back from a very hectic Kokan trip in which cousin's family in his 1.2 CVT Jazz was keeping us company. It just hurts that a carmaker that makes such a fantastic car - appears like a deer in the headlights right now.

[Vid6639]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

Its worth noting though, that the City ZX packs a sucker punch in terms of the feature list. Its a proven reliable car that suddenly appears rather VFM compared to the Slavia IMO. The key aspect that will work against the City - is actually anti-incumbency. Slavia's USP is that it is "all new".

Whats the additional features list?

All I remember was alexa connectivity, lane watch camera and some g meter display in the dials.

Anything else additional over the Slavia?

[Reinhard]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Anything else additional over the Slavia?

Starting from the lowest trim - the City has a lot more on offer in feature list viz-a-viz its Slavia peer. A fellow member has posted it here -

Link to post on Slavia thread in Indian Car Scene. (Skoda Slavia | A Close Look & Preview)

The first 2 trims of Slavia appear really under-kitted when compared to the City. Our market has proven time and again that its the features that sell, not the engines.
If the features listed in the post are wrong - then my bad.

[dipen]

Originally Posted by Vid6639

Whats the additional features list?

All I remember was alexa connectivity, lane watch camera and some g meter display in the dials.

Anything else additional over the Slavia?

On objective differences for the top end

• City gets alexa connectivity, lane watch camera, g meter, rear sunshade and all 4 one touch up/down power windows
• Slavia gets ventilated front seats, wireless charging pad and wireless AA ACP. Believe City has wired AA and ACP compatibility.

On subjective front

• City has better quality and more comfortable seats. Overall more airy cabin.
• Headlights of the Slavia look better implemented. City's 9 array LED feel fogged out during day time when not ON.
• Aircon in City is a chiller compared to Slavia. Negates the need for missing ventilated seats to some extent. and the Aircon controls are way more superior, practical and friendly.
• Though City isnt that bad, Slavia has a supervior ground clearance.
• City is better screwed together overall and some materials have premium feeling. Metal Build quality is a 19/20. So both score similar.
• ICE Touchscreen is superior in Slavia compared to the dated one in City
• Sound quality is better in Slavia (maybe the woofer effect) than the City.

Like I have suggested in other threads, if its mid Model; City V is better value than the Slavia Ambition (1.5 L difference). If its top end (ZX and Style - close to 70k difference onroad), one should decide based on the above features depending on individual priorities on feature weightage. Not to forget which engine suits which buyer.