[octane_100]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Tata Motors does not chase sales and mutate the Safari to a point where its not a Safari any longer.

Okay! Then this whole discussion in futile then. Peace out

[apachelongbow]

I am not sure what is Tata motor's marketing department thinking? Is it so difficult to make a version of LX, EX and VX in different flavors? If someone needs a 4x4 LX with no bells and whistles, they can have a basic version with 4x4, if someone needs a ABS, EBD and airbag setup in any version, they should be made available. I am not sure what prevents Tata from offering an option pack, say pack1 is 4x4, pack2 is abs/ebd pack 3 is airbags, pack4 is integrated entertainment systems, price them right and allow customers to choose versions of the car, or even better sell a no frills model, no versions and allow customers to choose everything as option packs.
This way they can differentiate from the other players in the market, and hopefully translate into more sales.
@Ebonho.. doc, if RE stuck with cast iron bullets they would have shutdown 5 years back, its only on new reliable models which you call 'non bullets', the company has thrived. If Tata wants to thrive, it needs to do the same, Safari or no Safari...

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by octane_100

Okay! Then this whole discussion in futile then. Peace out

Futility is both subjective and situational.

In terms of the the present for instance, it depends on how you are looking at the discussion. As a current (or past) owner. A potential buyer (and where the Safari stands in your shortlist). Or an internet critic.

Peace.

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

I am not sure what is Tata motor's marketing department thinking? Is it so difficult to make a version of LX, EX and VX in different flavors? If someone needs a 4x4 LX with no bells and whistles, they can have a basic version with 4x4, if someone needs a ABS, EBD and airbag setup in any version, they should be made available. I am not sure what prevents Tata from offering an option pack, say pack1 is 4x4, pack2 is abs/ebd pack 3 is airbags, pack4 is integrated entertainment systems, price them right and allow customers to choose versions of the car, or even better sell a no frills model, no versions and allow customers to choose everything as option packs.
This way they can differentiate from the other players in the market, and hopefully translate into more sales.

Woah! I work for a manufacturing company with pretty complex production and packaging lines. What you are saying is not impossible. But is a production and logistical and SCM nightmare.

@Ebonho.. doc, if RE stuck with cast iron bullets they would have shutdown 5 years back

Help me understand how that works. They survived for half a century and more on cast iron Bullets. They survived the Indo-Jap onslaught. They survived regulation changes from trafficators to electricals to emissions to noise, remaining largely unchanged. Suddenly they would pack up and die? Why? How?

its only on new reliable models which you call 'non bullets', the company has thrived.

That oft claimed reliability is a myth. Speak to guys who've owned all iterations to know the real story.

If Tata wants to thrive, it needs to do the same, Safari or no Safari...

Tata has ample options and blank canvases at its disposal with the Arias and the Hexas etc. Please leave the Safari unmolested.

[param22k]

Originally Posted by Storme_on_d_way

@param22k, I test drove xuv and safari storme in ncr traffic and somehow I was more comfortable in a storme, even manoeuvring this beast was easier in my opinion. how is it bad decision if I wish to consider it for city usage (personal and family both)?

Hi, there are plenty of differences in the XUV500 and storme that put the two vehicles in different segments. These can be very well understood from checking the very thorough reviews of these vehicles by teambhp. I can only suggest what makes practical sense. A lot of people (including myself) make car buying decisions from the heart rather than head. I believe in forming your own opinions and going with your heart, so if your heart tells you that storme is right for you then go with it and never regret it!

Originally Posted by KrishD

Which features have been stripped in the VX? Are you talking about leather seats? clock? I thought the rest was more of an upgrade....

Yup, leather seats and reverse camera. Dicor had the best implementation of reverse camera I've come across, and it is a must for me on the Safari. It is a god sent when I'm on my lone excursions in wilderness where I can't get out of the vehicle and have to back up to a drop. These features were there in Safari nearly a decade ago. The features list has not improved and some have been dropped. That's my really big grouse with TML. They couldn't be bothered enough to even make the effort to port newer features (ACC?) from their hatchbacks to the Storme.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Storme_on_d_way

@ebonho, bro dont make it more difficult for me than it already is . I indeed was expecting more out of this facelift. wanted a slightly better headroom on the last seats for those once in a week kinda short city excursions with family. Could have given that a miss too but I hoping against hopes that EX variant would come up with two airbags at least. I dont have the budget to go for VX for sure and I see no reason why the mid variant would not offer the airbags despite costing around 13.5 OTR. This was actually the deal breaker. Although I will accept it unabashedly that my heart will skip a beat almost always whenever I am going to see it on road. Hence, the handle stays the same. Storme has only taken a break, wont die off till I own one. ONE DAY (sigh)

The headroom in last row is not so much about head room as about the slope of the walls. Nothing much can be done about that short of changing the dye I'm afraid. Something Tata has not done for a decade and a half. So I would really not hold my breath on that one.

Airbags I agree. The XUV offers airbags. No reason why Tata cannot. I too don't get it. Must be inertia. Can't be bean counting. Rarely seen Tata do that (on the Safari at least).

So what are your options in this budget now? Innova, Scorpio, Aria, XUV are the ones that come to mind.

[Storme_on_d_way]

Aria indeed is a well accomplished vehicle but I am not sure if they are going to continue with it for long. My choice now shall be between scorpio and xuv. Both are totally different vehicles with their own pros and cons. I might post in the relevant section if someone experienced with both the vehicles can shed some light on the comparo. No matter which one I buy, I guess I will have to buy a 'horse blind' as an accessory to avoid the tachycardia situation whenever a storme passes by . Anyways, My usage will be mainly in delhi ncr about 40-50 kms a day and an outstation trip to nearby hills every 4 months or so. I am a maruti-spoilt guy who did not have to visit ASS ever in the past 7 years of dzire ownership apart from the usual servicing and routine maintenance. Never had any rattles or unwanted noise either. These two factors are quite important for me. My better half has always loved Xuv since it was launched. She doesn't really understand the body on frame ruggedness or driving postion etc nor she wishes to . So the balance is already tilted in its favour. If there were such a thing called 'dream machine', it would be a Storme with its solid engineering and looks, third row comfort of Innova and an enthusiastic After sales support of Mahindra ( itching to add- ability to buy one without the interference of family ) . If wishes were horses..Alas!!!

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Storme_on_d_way

Aria indeed is a well accomplished vehicle but I am not sure if they are going to continue with it for long. My choice now shall be between scorpio and xuv. Both are totally different vehicles with their own pros and cons. I might post in the relevant section if someone experienced with both the vehicles can shed some light on the comparo. No matter which one I buy, I guess I will have to buy a 'horse blind' as an accessory to avoid the tachycardia situation whenever a storme passes by . Anyways, My usage will be mainly in delhi ncr about 40-50 kms a day and an outstation trip to nearby hills every 4 months or so. I am a maruti-spoilt guy who did not have to visit ASS ever in the past 7 years of dzire ownership apart from the usual servicing and routine maintenance. Never had any rattles or unwanted noise either. These two factors are quite important for me. My better half has always loved Xuv since it was launched. She doesn't really understand the body on frame ruggedness or driving postion etc nor she wishes to . So the balance is already tilted in its favour. If there were such a thing called 'dream machine', it would be a Storme with its solid engineering and looks, third row comfort of Innova and an enthusiastic After sales support of Mahindra ( itching to add- ability to buy one without the interference of family ) . If wishes were horses..Alas!!!

I'm not sure if you've mentioned this before, but how many members in your family, and how small/big are they?

The XUV is really claustrophobic (for even average sized kids) in the 3rd row. The Scorpio actually has the most functional 3rd row of the 3, if you disregard the front facing thing of the XUV. If front facing is a deal clincher, then the Aria has a way better (roomier, more light, less closed in feel, nice pillar AC vents etc.) 3rd row than the XUV.

But none of these (maybe the Aria to an extent) come close to the MUV-esque 3rd rows of the Innova, and even better, the Xylo (but the Xylo unlike the Innova leaves no room behind for luggage).

For your usage, and your beautiful roads, it hardly matters between monocoque or body on ladder frame.

The Aria and Storme and XUV are near equal in terms of outright performance.

The Scorpio and the Storme are the only SUVs.

Of these only the Aria and XUV (as well as the Scorpio I guess) have the airbags you want, in the price you want them in.

The Storme is significantly more comfortable and roomy/plusher inside than the Scorpio.

The interiors of the Aria are the classiest.

The road presence of the Storme is the classiest.

The XUV has the most gadgetry inside (soon to become even more). The Scorpio is not far behind on that score now. So is the Aria (I would put it ahead of both the Mahindras for the quality over the quantity). The Storme is near naked in that respect, so lets leave it out.

The above comparo is the superficial how you see it comparo. How they drive, head to head, is where it will clinch it for you eventually. With the family inside, and you at the wheel. You at the wheel with final veto.

P.S. A suggestion. You seem to have a pretty sad Tata dealer. Delhi is a huge city. Way bigger than Pune. Why not check out different dealers and see whether there is a difference between one to the other? When buying my Storme, I went to all 3 (at the time) dealers in Pune, and test drove the Storme twice (home visits) with each.

[methecupid]

Originally Posted by Storme_on_d_way

If there were such a thing called 'dream machine', it would be a Storme with its solid engineering and looks, third row comfort of Innova and an enthusiastic After sales support of Mahindra ( itching to add- ability to buy one without the interference of family ) . If wishes were horses..Alas!!!

@ebonho has summed up the precis very well. Since I learn that you have been spoilt by your Maurti experience, I would assume peace of mind is foremost in your purview. Which essentially leaves out any of the variants of Mahindra with its plethora of 'unreliable' gadgetary. Recollecting a very recent visit to the MASS for my Scorpio, I told the service advisor and technical expert how I really liked the way XUV looked and the comfort of driving the car, and how it was something that the Scorpio doesn't have. The technical guy called another service advisor is jest and all of them in unison told me how lucky I was to have NOT gone for the car. Seems even the advisors are fed up with the number of cars that come visiting them every now and then.

The Scorpio on the other hand is what Mahindra is best known for. If you intend to go for a version, just take the S4+. I took it and spent another lakh to have my own touchscreen, roof rails, LED eyebrow, front seat arm-rests, carpeting etc. (in short, I don't miss anything in the S6 and beyond other than some gimmick and the very useful rear wipe and wash. But having said that, I like cars that drive smooth, Scorpio is not one of them. It has a dancing gear-shift (that I hate!) and quite frankly, its a pain to drive in crowded narrow roads in Mumbai. Since you are from Delhi, I would assume it'll be relatively better.

The Storme tugs at my heart even now. No matter where I see one, I always give it a good, hard look for 4-5 seconds. From what I gather, its mechanically reliable. When I sat in one, I just 'felt' that the car was much better built. The drive was smooth, and the gear shifts were precise for its class of cars. Not to mention, that the car does have a cult following.

I'm not sure if you will be using the third row all that often. I seriously doubt anyone uses them for more than 10% of the times. That's like just 35-40 trips. Answer to yourself, if you would like to go for a car that gives comfort for that less a time. It didn't make sense to me, hence I didn't go for any of the MUVs. I know you may have stroked off the Storme from contention at this time, but since my wife is from Delhi too, trust when I say this, they like the Storme more than anywhere else in the country

PS. I didn't go for it since I have a very cramped parking spot, or else it would have been a no-brainer.

PPS. On the Official Storme thread, the automatic has been scooped. That too on the 'EX' Variant. Might as well work as a carrot to us bunnies

[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by ebonho

The headroom in last row is not so much about head room as about the slope of the walls. Nothing much can be done about that short of changing the dye I'm afraid. Something Tata has not done for a decade and a half. So I would really not hold my breath on that one.

Airbags I agree. The XUV offers airbags. No reason why Tata cannot. I too don't get it. Must be inertia. Can't be bean counting. Rarely seen Tata do that (on the Safari at least).

Its not the body slope entirely, it is the way the chassis is shaped, especially with the fuel tank (earlier) and now the fuel tank and spare sitting under the rear body. That makes the floor higher, head room lower (the reason for the slight roof hump over the rear windows) and naturally any seating made there would be either a jump seat (current versions), or a compromise of a forward facing child seat with extremely low floor. That would also end any luggage carrying capacity unless the seat was folder/removed.
IMO the present jump seats also can be ditched and the Storme should be left as a big 5 seat SUV, also they can lower the raised rear roof, to make the roof flat and more proportionate.

I think Tata is planning to kill the Storme/Safari. The existing body shell, the frame and the ladder chassis combination has been stretched to how far it can go, the best way forward is to ditch the Storme and proceed on a new platform altogether or maybe develop the Hexa into a full blown SUV, or just develop a new platform with Landrover help and continue building SUVs based on that.

Coming back to the Bullet/Safari comparison, RE nearly died about 5-7 years back, sales were stagnant, the model range was static and technology was not available, its only with the Electra range and specifically with UCE engines that RE survived and thrived. Reliability wise, the UCE engines are quite robust, they don't leak oil, they don't breakdown, don't need Sunday elbow grease to run, yes the bikes are still a rust bucket, but that is mainly due to shoddy work processes than any real defect. The way forward for the Safari is to move away from the existing platform, which IMO they have, with the Storme. The Storme is not related to the Safari at all, except from the A pillar to the D pillar in the bodyshell, maybe they should have ditched that as well, and started with a clean slate, and the sales may have been better.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

Its not the body slope entirely, it is the way the chassis is shaped, especially with the fuel tank (earlier) and now the fuel tank and spare sitting under the rear body. That makes the floor higher, head room lower (the reason for the slight roof hump over the rear windows) and naturally any seating made there would be either a jump seat (current versions), or a compromise of a forward facing child seat with extremely low floor.

Agreed about the fuel tank and the spare wheel. The first thing my kids commented was that the Storme's 3rd row compartment "feels" smaller than the Dicor's on back to back test rides. There is nothing much in it when you actually measure - one hand span. But its there.

The slope is clearly visible from behind. Scorpio does not have that slope (but equally looks also very boxy). But the passengers in the Scorpio 3rd row jump seats are a lot happier (and bigger in size).

P.S. Let's ditch the Bullet thing here. We both seem to know what we are talking about, but we both are going OT on it. Maybe the right time to discuss the merits of the UCE would be when they've actually run for as many kilometers and years as the cast irons have. On a dedicated thread.

[rosaf]

Originally Posted by ebonho

The Storme is significantly more comfortable and roomy/plusher inside than the Scorpio.

The road presence of the Storme is the classiest.

I happened to pass MG road today afternoon and spotted a Storme and XUV parked right next to each other facing forward.Was driving so did not take the risk of taking any pictures for safety reasons,but wasn't the Storme looking magnificent!

I am not a gadget person so XUV was out of question for me.

So i am going to wait for a month or two,TML will start offering discounts and i will pick up the EX case closed for me!

[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by ebonho

Agreed about the fuel tank and the spare wheel. The first thing my kids commented was that the Storme's 3rd row compartment "feels" smaller than the Dicor's on back to back test rides. There is nothing much in it when you actually measure - one hand span. But its there.

The slope is clearly visible from behind. Scorpio does not have that slope (but equally looks also very boxy). But the passengers in the Scorpio 3rd row jump seats are a lot happier (and bigger in size).

P.S. Let's ditch the Bullet thing here. We both seem to know what we are talking about, but we both are going OT on it. Maybe the right time to discuss the merits of the UCE would be when they've actually run for as many kilometers and years as the cast irons have. On a dedicated thread.

Agreed!! On the Safari front, I believe the best utilization of space versus looks is in the Force One. It is commendable how they fitted 3 complete rows of seats, with enough leg space for each row, and then fitted a huge boot space behind, all within the space of 5 meter length. Tata need to learn a thing or two about space management from Force. The best thing is the Force One doesn't look boxy or like a MUV which Innova, Aria or Xylo do.

[Storme_on_d_way]

I am going to give it my last shot. Have told my wifey that we need to go for a xuv test drive in the coming week. And while we are at it, I will try to sneak into TATA showroom and ask her to at least test drive a storme once keeping the fingers crossed.

[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by Storme_on_d_way

I am going to give it my last shot. Have told my wifey that we need to go for a xuv test drive in the coming week. And while we are at it, I will try to sneak into TATA showroom and ask her to at least test drive a storme once keeping the fingers crossed.

If you need a successful outcome, test drive the Xuv first, ensure you drive it on bumpy undulating roads, a little bit of broken roads and on a conjested road. Drive it at fairly high speeds on broken roads, ask your wife to sit in the middle row. Repeat the same route in the Storme.

[ebonho]

Originally Posted by Storme_on_d_way

I am going to give it my last shot. Have told my wifey that we need to go for a xuv test drive in the coming week. And while we are at it, I will try to sneak into TATA showroom and ask her to at least test drive a storme once keeping the fingers crossed.

Bro, a doctor friend of mine from Hyderabad just bought a brand new purple colored top end XUV. Me met for dinner a couple of days ago. I did not drive his XUV but I did sit in the driver's cockpit. Fancy dials, with the motorcycle type sweep of the needles, multicolored back lights.

Forget everything else I've written above. Just sit in the cockpit of the Storme and the XUV back to back, hold the steering, and look forward.

That's going to be your perch for as long as you have the vehicle.

P.S. The new Storme's steering seems to be an exact copy of the XUV steering.