[SILVERWOOD]

Dear Friends,

I need some urgent information.

How many of you have applied for refund after the Supreme Court order.?

Has anyone been granted the refund.?

We intend to move an application before Justice Chelameswar and bring up the matter next week if Karnataka Govt has denied a single refund.

Waseem.

[itwasntme]

http://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.co...w/62595847.cms

STATE’S ‘WATCH REGISTER’ STARTS OFF WITH DARSHAN’S LAMBORGHINI

Now a Watch Register for non-KA cars specifically for luxury PY plates. Wonder how many genuine interstate travellers or frequent visitors to KA will get trapped in this.

For example, my father in law drives down 4 times annually for long weekends in his TN car. How do you deal with such genuine cases as compared to the educated wilful road tax evaders?

[KiloAlpha]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

http://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.co...w/62595847.cms

Now a Watch Register for non-KA cars specifically for luxury PAY plates. Wonder how many interstate travellers or frequent visitors to KA will get trapped in this.

For example, my father in law drives down 4 times annually for long weekends in his TN car. How do you deal with such genuine cases as compared to the educated wilful road tax evaders?

To be fair to the transport department, the so-called "Watch Register" is their way of collecting evidence of someone not re-registering a car in Karnataka when they should have. This has probably started after the High Court struck down the one-month rule and all its attendant silliness. So, when the transport department confronts the owner of an out-of-state registered vehicle, it should be with proof that he/she really should be paying tax. I don't see anything wrong with that. It is the proper thing to do.

In your case, even if your father-in-law's car is on the watch register, I would reckon it would show that the car was spotted 5-6 times in a year over weekends? I would love to see the RTO trying to convince anyone, let alone a judge, that that is enough evidence of someone being a"resident" and hence needing to pay tax.

Remember, the government and its bureaucracy can be very very smart when it chooses to be. In this case, I think someone high up has caused this "smartness". Plus, remember, this is election year in Karnataka. The government will be keen to avoid any anti-common-man type coverage in the media.

[binand]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

Now a Watch Register for non-KA cars specifically for luxury PY plates. Wonder how many genuine interstate travellers or frequent visitors to KA will get trapped in this.

This is how they should have been doing it. The underlying principle is that of "burden of proof". Since everyone is innocent until proven guilty, the burden of proof first lies with the RTO to prove that a vehicle has been in KA in violation of existing rules. This addresses that issue, and now the burden of proof shifts to the vehicle owner to prove that they have not been in violation.

In your father-in-law's case, entry/exit toll receipts, genuine proof or residence at the source location (not the kind the KL film stars produced!) etc. should be fine.

The AP police in Hyderabad (when AP was unified AP) had been doing this very nicely, based only on the smarts of the on-road MVIs (and probably some IT infra in the backend, I don't know).

Not that I am in agreement with the re-taxation rider to the re-registration requirement. On the contrary I vehemently oppose it.

[avira_tk]

This is simply another silly move to harass motorists, the RTO doesn't bother with address proof when a car is registered in Bangalore, but they are really concerned about the same thing when the car is not from Karnataka. The court has thrown out the law, it's time a local authority gets a contempt notice.

This system is simply another dud, the government can make more money by enforcement of traffic rules. If someone drives to Bangalore once a month, does the RTO decide on taxes or does the constitutionally guaranteed freedom of movement mean anything? This thread as usual gets the government supporters who seem to think that the RTO tax target trumps the Constitution.

[ajmat]

I think that they want to adapt the Kerala model and go for the folks who have willfully committed fraud in terms of false addresses etc.

[itwasntme]

I am all for it if done in a professional manner in line with HC directions and reasonableness. But I am concerned for frequent visitors (as mentioned earlier), who are dog-tired after a long drive being stopped and shown some illegble 'watch list' and being extorted and harassed by the roadside, even upto the point of luggage being forcibly offloaded and the car seized on the spot. It happend to umpteen people barely a year back and Waseem's case effectively put a stop to it.

Let MoRTH implement One Nation, One Tax ASAP whch most high tax states like our beloved KA will not allow.

[binand]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

does the constitutionally guaranteed freedom of movement mean anything?

The constitutionally guaranteed freedom of movement has the "reasonable restrictions" rider attached to it; it is not an absolute right.

This move can go both ways; they can do it professionally or they can do it like highway robbers. I agree that given their track record they will most likely end up taking the latter path.

The way out is not one nation, one tax - since as has been pointed out, it will face stiff opposition from the states. The way out is no re-taxation upon re-registration.

[avira_tk]

Originally Posted by binand

The constitutionally guaranteed freedom of movement has the "reasonable restrictions" rider attached to it; it is not an absolute right.
..

The way it is implemented doesn't seem like a reasonable restriction, my question was whether anyone passing through the state has to prove they are not resident here. That's a rhetorical question by the way.

Moving across the country has no reasonable restrictions attached, especially when you are travelling in your own vehicle(a licence, insurance, registration and pollution certificate have to be at hand) .

I don't know what makes you decide that out of state drivers are highway robbers(if that's the story ), it's best not to let prejudice and jealousy cloud the discussion.

[binand]

Originally Posted by avira_tk

The way it is implemented doesn't seem like a reasonable restriction, my question was whether anyone passing through the state has to prove they are not resident here.

That's where the burden-of-proof argument applies. If the RTO comes to you with a sheet listing sightings of your vehicle in Bangalore on 183 of the previous 365 days (> 50%) then yes, you need to prove you are not a resident.

The big problem is that based on past experience, we cannot expect Bangalore RTO staff to be courteous or professional about it.

[samaspire]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

Let MoRTH implement One Nation, One Tax ASAP whch most high tax states like our beloved KA will not allow.

If it does get implemented, the tax will be more towards the higher side, and the one's objecting will be the low tax states.

Originally Posted by binand

This move can go both ways; they can do it professionally or they can do it like highway robbers. I agree that given their track record they will most likely end up taking the latter path.

Originally Posted by avira_tk

I don't know what makes you decide that out of state drivers are highway robbers(if that's the story ), it's best not to let prejudice and jealousy cloud the discussion.

Pretty sure binand was talking about the government and police acting like highway robbers, not the Drivers.

[binand]

Originally Posted by samaspire

Pretty sure binand was talking about the government and police acting like highway robbers, not the Drivers.

Originally Posted by binand

The big problem is that based on past experience, we cannot expect Bangalore RTO staff to be courteous or professional about it.

Oh. I hadn't noticed that my ambiguous pronoun usage was misinterpreted. I was indeed talking about the RTO staff (clarified in a subsequent post) when I said they could behave professionally or like highway robbers. Apologies if this caused any confusion.

[Latheesh]

Latest:
Now Kerala Govt is giving deadline till April (to pay road tax) this year to all out of state vehicles running in Kerala.

[wildsdi5530]

One good initiative by state governments would be to provide long term parking at state borders at affordable rates. Going from Karnataka to Kerala, park your Ka vehicle at the border, cross over and take your Kl vehicle.
I remember during the recent Cauvery riots, my in-laws with my kids had to come to Bangalore. They employed a driver to drive them to Hosur border and we went to pick them up. No buses were plying either. They just walked across the border with their luggage. Am sure this is common in many places in the world. US-Mexico, Syria, etc.

[binand]

Originally Posted by wildsdi5530

Going from Karnataka to Kerala, park your Ka vehicle at the border, cross over and take your Kl vehicle.

Why? What is the purpose? Why would anyone want (except as you say, in riot-like situations) to do this?

Originally Posted by wildsdi5530

Am sure this is common in many places in the world. US-Mexico, Syria, etc.

Those are international borders. Interstate borders don't qualify. Does the California-Nevada border have this sort of arrangement?