[Ascari]

Originally Posted by humyum

How about they start returning the 5 years of road tax first which is paid extra while collecting road tax of 15 years.

Most illogical and uneducated government ever in Indian history.

Dude! This has been done by the National Green Tribunal,which is a judicial body and not part of some ministry.NGT is a brain dead organisation.Please get your facts right before you criticise the Government.

[rdhawan15]

Originally Posted by ashokrajagopal

I think if the Delhi RTO reimburses 5 years of tax, it should be alright.

On top of the tax refund, for someone whose 'working and fit vehicle' has been scrapped, the Government needs to offer some sort of an excise-cut on a new vehicle purchase to make good the scrapped vehicle's monetary or market value. You have so many Innovas that are maintained well, and their value has been reduced to zero after this directive.

[narayans80]

Road tax is the smaller components. Its the resale that'll take a huge hit for all vehicles that are closer to the 10 year age. While the petroleum industry can take a cool 7 years to implement BS4 nationwide, BS6 is being talked about now for an implementation in what might be implemented only in mid-2020. But private owners have to abandon close to 10 year old vehicle at a moments' notice? Wow!

Last time NGT came with 2L diesel ban, Mahindra comes up with a quick 1.99L diesel engine. We have to wait and see how this plays out.

[carwatcher]

Few Contradictions observed in the thread :

a) Ban on Ten year old cars would affect the incomes of people whose livelihood is dependent on them - At the same time I am sure taxi drivers cover enough distance in 10 years to recover the cost. If it means other vehicles like Tempo, Lorry, etc. - it is a general consensus that they are ill-maintained, venom spewing vehicles that must be banned before touching private cars.

b) I seriously want to have a poll on how many BHPians actually have kept a more than 10 year old DIESEL car personally or advise in their circle to buy any used Diesel car that is more than 6-7 years old even when there is No ban. Well maintained 10 year Diesel car is an exception than the norm.

c) Even if a Pvt owner buys a Diesel car, he buys considering his usage, therefore if he is overusing it, the car would save him enough in Ten years and if he is under-utilising it then anyways this kind of usage should be curbed.

d) In today's ToI online I read a news post mentioning that RTOs in NCR are being instructed not to issue NOCs to Diesel cars that are more than 10 years old, so their plying on roads in other states is illegal but we are generally not known to be not doing illegal things.

The least noise making segment i.e. more than 2000 cc vehicles are already banned so they have to now move to the next step.

The only thing missing in all this matrix is Tax Rebate or good scrap value while replacing the vehicle from the Govt. which I am sure would be coming soon.

[CarJunki]

Any re-imbursement of 5Yr tax should consider the time value equivalent of money. And also about the cost of lost opportunity.

Also can NGT ensure that all public transport buses older than 10Yr are also de-registered?

[humyum]

Originally Posted by SoumenD

Am sure no RTO official(while impounding the vehicles) will answer this question. Infact max we can expect is a finger pointed towards NGT asking us to seek an answer from them. But vehicles will anyways be impounded as per

Well, that is our weakness that we let them get away with it.

Originally Posted by Ascari

Dude! This has been done by the National Green Tribunal,which is a judicial body and not part of some ministry.NGT is a brain dead organisation.Please get your facts right before you criticise the Government.

SO you are telling me that the National Green Tribunal which was established on 18.10.2010, in 5 to 6 years has got so much power that it can dictate terms to the central and state governments and the governments have to request and plead to them to re consider? Such knee jerk reactions and changes have been part of the current government ever since its formation and hence everyone is allowed to follow suit is my hypothesis, you can't just wake up one day and say "Chalo, 10 years + diesel cars to be banned, mera hukam hi kaanon hai aaj se' and not have the government in loop for this while decision making or while passing this law.

NGT is a Government run body as can be seen from their website, why should I criticise anyone but the government? You buy a Samsung Phone for example, the touch screen fails, it is supplied by say a company called XYZ to Samsung, whom are you going to criticise? XYZ for building an inferior product or Samsung for selecting an inferior touch screen for its phone? Of course Samsung. Same for NGT too.

[apachelongbow]

Originally Posted by humyum

Well, that is our weakness that we let them get away with it.




SO you are telling me that the National Green Tribunal which was established on 18.10.2010, in 5 to 6 years has got so much power that it can dictate terms to the central and state governments and the governments have to request and plead to them to re consider? Such knee jerk reactions and changes have been part of the current government ever since its formation and hence everyone is allowed to follow suit is my hypothesis, you can't just wake up one day and say "Chalo, 10 years + diesel cars to be banned, mera hukam hi kaanon hai aaj se' and not have the government in loop for this while decision making or while passing this law.

Secondly, I don't need to get any facts right before criticising this government, its all out in the open.

Please keep your politics out of our forum. It's a request from me and is in line with the forum rules.

[humyum]

Originally Posted by apachelongbow

Please keep your politics out of our forum. It's a request from me and is in line with the forum rules.

Sorry, this has no political innuendos in the discussion. I am blaming whom I need to blame, if that involves a government, what do I do? Just not say it?

[sgiitk]

Looking at what I gather the person behind this is an old suspect. This is Ms Sunita Narain of the CSE. remember her case against Diesels just before the launch of Indica. Her anti Diesel obsession continues.

[apachelongbow]

Leaving the political jostling and posturing aside lets understand the true implication and meaning of this decision. For the uninformed the NGT is a quasi judicial body comprising of retired judges who 'don't' report to any government. It was passed in the previous government regime to ensure that the country's environmental causes are not buried under governmental or business pressure. In the true sense no one, not even the government can disregard the NGT ruling. If anyone is to blame in creating this NGT then its the previous sarkaar so to speak. However blame aside, there is a logic to NGT's purpose. They are doing what they are supposed to, that is protect the environment. The question is on their adhoc deadlines and rationale behind them, especially since they don't involve expert analysis or public debate. Will banning diesel vehicles all together solve the pollution issue? I don't think so, even the NGT doesn't have any relevant data in assuming it will. Will banning all kinds of fossil fueled vehicles solve the issue? It will merely shift the pollution away from the cities to areas around the powerplants which generate electricity for say electric transport. If NGT had said, from tomorrow no one will commute alone in a 4 seater car in Delhi, or said within next 2 years Delhi and its surroundings will have metro and bus connectivity to ensure that people cannot drive to work, I would be in full support. Instead they went the khap panchayat way and decided to ban x and y..

[rdst_1]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

Few Contradictions observed in the thread :

All your points become moot if my 10 year old diesel car can pass the PUC standards set by the law.
You very conveniently seem to ignore the financial burden that such a decision puts on the people whose cars will get scrapped.
I have a Palio which we bought in 2002. I just can't replace it because a) it runs flawlessly due to the way it has been maintained and b) I can't find another car in the same segment that offers the same space inside and c) I am not in a financial state to upgrade to the D segment yet.
Making sure PUC checks are done properly is more than enough to get the desired effects on the environment, but since that is a regulation nightmare, let's just transfer the burden onto the people. How does that make sense to you.

[ashokrajagopal]

The idea of a life time tax for 15 years is the RTO giving some sort of a license to run the vehicle for 15 years. 15 years is a long time and the Govt is well within in rights to not allow vehicles older than 15 years for a re registration.
Here, NGT is just moving the pointer 5 years back.

IMHO, this 10 year old vehicle re registering is much much saner than the blanket ban on 2.5L+ diesel vehicles ban in Kerala 2 months before. That decision blocks even new vehicles and new technology and in so many ways is turning a blind eye to innovation. But this one, we all know 10 years before BS4 was not followed. If you have to register a new vehicle, BS4 norm is mandatory.

I know many anecdotal evidences would say otherwise, but for the majority of vehicles, a new vehicle pollutes lesser than a vehicle 10 years older.

[humyum]

Originally Posted by rdst_1

All your points become moot if my 10 year old diesel car can pass the PUC standards set by the law.
You very conveniently seem to ignore the financial burden that such a decision puts on the people whose cars will get scrapped.
I have a Palio which we bought in 2002. I just can't replace it because a) it runs flawlessly due to the way it has been maintained and b) I can't find another car in the same segment that offers the same space inside and c) I am not in a financial state to upgrade to the D segment yet.
Making sure PUC checks are done properly is more than enough to get the desired effects on the environment, but since that is a regulation nightmare, let's just transfer the burden onto the people. How does that make sense to you.

The direct implication of this is, people will not care much about their cars because they'll think 'Aha, in 10 years this is going to be dust anyway, why should I spend bone and tear to get it fixed and keep it running like new'. My Swift Diesel is 8 years old now, run 1 lakh 26 thousand km, runs as good as new, if I were living in Delhi, it will be worth nothing even now as no one would touch a car which has just 2 years of shelf life left, so for the next two years, I stop spending anything on the car and just barely keep it running, polluting the environment even more in the bargain. Imagine this scenario. They are not only dooming the lives of 10 year and 10 year old cars but they are also making sure that cars which are more than 7 to 8 years old are not maintained by this decision of theirs.

[anilp]

I chanced upon this news item just now. The timing of this notification may be too much of a coincidence.

With more companies coming forward with facilities for the fitting of hybrid electric kits in older vehicles, owners of diesel vehicles have the option to go electric. This offers one way of coping with the order of the National Green Tribunal on deregistering diesel vehicles aged over a decade. The option became possible only last week when new rules for the retrofitment of hybrid electric vehicles were notified by the road transport and highways ministry.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/c...w/53273363.cms

[dinesh6481]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

Looking at what I gather the person behind this is an old suspect. This is Ms Sunita Narain of the CSE. remember her case against Diesels just before the launch of Indica. Her anti Diesel obsession continues.

Doesn't she has problem with everything which can give you happiness? Be it Coca cola, Mcdonald's, Haldiram bhujia, Lays chips, Bingo and Diesel cars. On the other side more than the consumer market the ban is going to hit the low end entrepreneurs who have invested their hard earned money on small diesel vehicles like Tempo, Tata 1210 or Small school vans. Unlike car owners, these vehicles are used till the end of their shelf life and not the mandatory 15 or 20 years. such arbitary bans are the reasons that foreign car makers are wary of launching their new vehicles or foreign equivalent in indian market. nobody wants surprises like this when they have invested hundred of millions in R&D only to know that their vehicle may run in some part of country and not all. the day is not far when we might have 'Exclusive Uttar Pradesh Launch of Toyota Fortuner'.