[Dry Ice]

Originally Posted by mallumowgli

Arent both of them Wranglers? What's he implying?

Yes they are, hence the use of "also".
As for what's he implying, only he can clarify. My guesses are in the post you quoted.
--

Coming back to the Thar, its rear reminds me more of the recently unveiled Bronco rather than the Wrangler, especially that sloping rear panel. Given they are said to be working closely, could there have been any influence?

[suneel]

Kudos to Mahindra for doing such a great job copying the outgoing Wrangler's taillight too. Not too many companies have the raw talent to replicate designs as well as this. If only there was an automobile maker award for best plagiarism

[ohaak]

Originally Posted by DicKy

That said, hope the 2nd gen Thar becomes mainstream and a huge success, by the time the 3rd gen comes, it would have developed its own identity than piggybacking Jeeps legacy.

If the new Thar is going to be a premium product (it looks like it), then the target segments are not going to be swayed by the grill as much as they will be swayed by mechanicals. I don't see a real reason to wait for gen 3 while gen 2 can make the change. As it stands, the 2nd gen Thar now has to deal with the "Jeep Ripoff" tag. We are already seeing a few of such posts here.

In any case, I am excited for the product and hope it delivers.

[diwakarmuthu]

Originally Posted by suneel

Kudos to Mahindra for doing such a great job copying the outgoing Wrangler's taillight too. Not too many companies have the raw talent to replicate designs as well as this. If only there was an automobile maker award for best plagiarism

[img]

Thinking aloud from Mahindra perspective, they have some good design teams inhouse, only if they choose to leverage their Pininfarina team or their North America design center. Maybe a better design sense will prevail while keeping the essence of Jeep alive.

[CrAzY dRiVeR]

Originally Posted by ohaak

As it stands, the 2nd gen Thar now has to deal with the "Jeep Ripoff" tag. We are already seeing a few of such posts here.

Couple of thoughts (My observations - May not be factually 100% right) -

1. Is Thar a rip-off of the Wrangler?

As per news items that came out in the US media before the launch of the Roxor - Mahindra not only had the license for production of their Jeep derivatives, but also renewed their licences with all the Jeep brand caretakers including FCA in 2009.

If nothing - the new Thar shares a licensed origin with the original Jeep. The below quote on the Roxor is even more applicable to the new Thar. I believe 'rip-off' can't be used in this case as the new Thar resembles the old Thar just as much as the Wrangler does.

"The Roxor was engineered and developed in the US and is based on the same platform as Mahindra’s Thar vehicle sold in India and many other markets. Mahindra has been manufacturing the Thar and its predecessors since just after World War II. The Roxor’s resemblance to the CJ and military-style Willys jeep is directly related to this 70-year heritage.”

Source

2. Why did Mahindra used a different grille for the Roxor than the traditional 7-slat?

Because it looks like their agreement with FCA had mentioned of a separate grille to be used in other markets. (Except India? May be, not sure)

On August 23, 2018, Mahindra filed a complaint in federal court in Michigan on the issue of the applicability and enforcement of its 2009 agreement with Fiat. The company had said, “We are asking the court to block Fiat from participating in the ITC claim – an injunction – because of the fact that they agreed in 2009 to never bring such claims if we use a grille that they approved. The Roxor uses that grille.”

Source

3. If so, then why did FCA and Mahindra fight regarding the Roxor in the US market?

Because Mahindra tried to hit FCA where it hurts - their home market.

On August 1, 2018, Fiat Chrysler Automobiles US had filed a complaint against Mahindra & Mahindra (M&M) and Mahindra Automotive North America (MANA) with the United States International Trade Commission (USITC), which said that the sale of the Mahindra Roxor violated Section 337 of the Tariff Act of 1930 in the importation into the United States and sale of certain motorised vehicles and components thereof that infringe trade dress and trademarks asserted by the complainant.

When a company has been making a vehicle for 70 years and continues to do so - can't be called a plain ripoff, no? FCA could have filed a case in India years back itself - if there was no agreement between the two makers?

Personally, I feel Roxor was a bad move - selling it back in their home market. Thar? Reasonable and with a proud history.

[r_nairtvm]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

Couple of thoughts (My observations - May not be factually 100% right) -

Personally, I feel Roxor was a bad move - selling it back in their home market. Thar? Reasonable and with a proud history.

Agree with your thoughts and I must say that its not entirely baseless thoughts either.

Will know shortly either way.

Yes, Roxor was perhaps a ill advised move - kind of "Pearl Harbour" type wake up call to FCA

Best Regards & Drive Safe

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by CrAzY dRiVeR

When a company has been making a vehicle for 70 years and continues to do so - can't be called a plain ripoff, no?

While I agree that original Thar could be considered Willys lineage, I dont understand why 2020 Thar had to resemble FCA designs so closely, especially when it was built ground up, and the two were already locking horns in Detroit.

If wrangler is Chrysler's take on original Willys, Thar 2020 should have been Mahindra's spin, and not just mere copy of Chrysler's take. And I am not talking about seven slat grille or 7" round headlamps. Those two are in essence what evokes THE sense of being a JEEP. While retaining those two things, Mahindra could have used their own switches designs, tail lamps, speakers placement, dashboard design etc etc. Now all these things just make Mahindra look like a cheaper knock off.

I would still buy a new gen Thar for all the good things it represents but it feels like Mahindra has taken a shortcut.

[Torquedo]

Not to spoil the party here, but I have a strong hunch, Thar shall be offered in the 1.5L petrol guise. The 2.0 with it's specs shall be overtly expensive. Those looking for a 12ish ex showroom for the 190 HP 2.0 are in for a rude shock. Looking at M&M greed over the years, talking Scorpio, XUV3OO, Thar here, this shall not come cheap and not with the 2.0 heart. If it does in the 2.0 form, shall be beyond the reach of many enthusiasts.

Man, the 1.2's are selling for 12 odd these days and I could not agree more with fellow BHPian Shibujp comments on this being less of an engineering marvel than we dilapidated Indians craving for our insatiable hunger and malnourished options for the Broncos and Wrangler's of the world, pity to say least but this is how we'll be milked.

[navpreet318]

I just hope we get the 2.0L Petrol in top model 4X4 AT Hard Top guise with an ex showroom of 15L +/-.
This would be easy for mahindra to launch and would be the ideal vehicle for this price. This would be the be all and end all of anyone looking for a lifestyle vehicle for a long term.

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by Torquedo

Not to spoil the party here, but I have a strong hunch, Thar shall be offered in the 1.5L petrol guise. The 2.0 with it's specs shall be overtly expensive.

I disagree. Firstly the 2020 Thar and the next gen Scorpio share the same chasis and very unlikely that this chasis/engine bay is configured for a 1.5 petrol given that the next gen Scorpio will be a full size SUV. Secondly the Thar Petrol AT will be premium offering over the diesel. The reason being only people who can afford to run a petrol car will buy the Thar Petrol. Majority will go for the diesel. For the target Thar petrol customer, 2.0 is the way to go. It is a life style vehicle and not an frugal office commute hatchback. They also have exports in mind and 2.0 Petrol is definitely the one for export. Just my feelings/thoughts on this. Anyways, we will know in 4 days once the unveil happens.

[Vinod_nair]

Is there a footstep on the front doors? Or is it part of the running board?

Gurus can throw some light.

Regards

[hardy_007]

Have been waiting for this. 15th August 2020, Thar is going to be revealed officially. Car looks magnificent, my only question would be the automatic transmission availability. It can also benefit personal buyers who are not more into off roading. Secondly, the pricing of the Thar is the second most aspect for a buyer like me to be impressed.

[jeeva]

I am sure there are many others like me who'd love to hear from the 4x4 veterans of Team-Bhp about their opinion on the new Thar. Hope the official review will take care of it.

The real contributors behind Thar.
https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/4x4-v...mm540-4wd.html (MM540-4WD wish list - what you really want in your MM540-4WD?)

[daywiz]

Originally Posted by 4x4addict

I disagree. Firstly the 2020 Thar and the next gen Scorpio share the same chasis and very unlikely that this chasis/engine bay is configured for a 1.5 petrol given that the next gen Scorpio will be a full size SUV. Secondly the Thar Petrol AT will be premium offering over the diesel. The reason being only people who can afford to run a petrol car will buy the Thar Petrol. Majority will go for the diesel. For the target Thar petrol customer, 2.0 is the way to go. It is a life style vehicle and not an frugal office commute hatchback. They also have exports in mind and 2.0 Petrol is definitely the one for export. Just my feelings/thoughts on this. Anyways, we will know in 4 days once the unveil happens.

! Its going to be 2.0L mStallion. I think most people see the max output figures (190bhp) that was mentioned at the expo and think its too tall a configuration and so unlikely. With such a heavy vehicle and concentration on off-road capability, no way its going opt for any of the smaller mStallions. The 2.0L is guaranteed but likely a detuned version touching somewhere between 150-160hp at best and will definitely look to spice up the low-end grunt.

[4x4addict]

Originally Posted by daywiz

The 2.0L is guaranteed but likely a detuned version touching somewhere between 150-160hp at best and will definitely look to spice up the low-end grunt.

This is possible, but hope they don't do it. My guess is that they won't, since this will be Halo product for them. Look how much effort they put into the interiors, give an automatic etc.