[JS Kwt]

Breaking down the Global NCAP crash test


There’s a lot of misinformation about the Global NCAP crash tests and the ratings. We clear the air.

https://www.autocarindia.com/car-new...mpression=true



Over the past month, Global NCAP has released the results of three more models , namely the Renault Lodgy and Maruti Suzuki’s Swift and Vitara Brezza. While the results have reached far and wide (God bless the internet), a look at online forums and social media chatter also suggests there’s a lot of misinformation about the crash tests. So, it’s a time as good as any to break it right down.




How does Global NCAP score cars?
Technically, a car cannot ‘fail’ an NCAP test, as it can a government regulation test. Each car under the NCAP, as you may be familiar, is given a rating on a 5-star scale – the higher the star rating, the safer the car. The rating itself is based on the Adult Occupant Protection and Child Occupant Protection scores resulting from the crash test. These scores are primarily derived from readings of the crash-test dummies but additional points may be awarded for the presence of certain safety features. Additionally, Global NCAP mandates a driver’s side airbag as the minimum requirement to qualify for a one star rating. This should explain why non-airbag versions of the Tata Zest and Volkswagen Polo received zero stars, while airbag-equipped versions tested later were rated 4-star cars. In time, more requirements will be introduced too. For instance, ESC could become a minimum star requirement in the tests on Indian cars in the years to come.

The 17-point Adult Occupant Protection score takes into account driver injury readings from four body regions – head and neck; chest; knee, femur and pelvis, and leg and foot. An additional point is given to cars with a seatbelt reminder, four-channel ABS and some form of side-impact protection, tested by a relevant authority.

The primary basis for the 49- point Child Occupant Protection score is readings from the 18- month-old and 3-year-old-sized dummies placed in manufacturer recommended child seats. Additional points are given for child restraint system markings, provision of three point seat belts, Isofix, etc.

How does Global NCAP select cars for test?
Mass market models have been the point of focus in the Safer Cars For India initiative. The cars to be tested are bought by the agency from a showroom. Global NCAP uses cars in base trim for the test and the idea is to establish a baseline level of safety a buyer gets even on the most affordable version of a car. Carmakers, however, are allowed and encouraged to send an improved or higher-spec car with more safety features for an additional crash test and rating too. The Tata Zest, Volkswagen Polo and Honda Mobilio have been tested twice, while the Renault Kwid has been tested four times since 2016. In the event a manufacturer is providing a test car, the model is selected straight off the assembly line by Global NCAP as per a strict internal protocol. So far, Global NCAP has conducted 29 crash tests of 23 Indian cars. (See table).

[guptad42]

Originally Posted by keshav1426

This is basic demand and supply. Automatics were never popular among the entry level and mid segment vehicles. Reasons being low mileage and higher prices . Only with the launch of the AMT , Maruti and others were able to keep the costs in check and attain similar efficiency figures. Even after doing all this, the sale percentage between Manual and AMT is 70/30 respectively. So unless there is a crazy demand or unavailability of Manual transmission, this is the way things are going to be for sometime. To add to this ,most people opting for an AMT / AT have no clue whether its a 4 speed or not. It just needs to get the person from Point A to Point B with minimum hassle . This has been accomplished by Maruti

This is because we are looking at it one model at a time. I'm suggesting Suzuki invest in low cost engineering in India for a suitable automatic solution that can have variants used across the board across multiple cars like Swift, Brezza, Ciaz, S cross, Ertiga etc.

If Suzuki do so, the cost per car will be far lower that buying and plonking a 6 speeder AT from someone else.

Let us take your quoted number of 30% of sales as automatics. Just think about 30% of Suzuki's sales across so many modesl. It will be more than total sales of most other makers in India!

In other words, there is no shortage of demand volumes if Suzuki does not make it a niche solution reserved for one variant of one model. This is exactly what Suzuki do with engines already. So, the strategy is well known to them. They just haven't executed it with auto transmissions.

[blorebuddy]

Originally Posted by JS Kwt

Contemplating to go for Petrol OR Diesel?

Seeking Team BHP Help
Would appreciate suggestions and other valuable inputs which i can consider to help me DECIDE.

Especially regarding the sanity of pursuing with Diesel , would it be a Safe Bet for another 10 years ??

I would say go for Diesel if your need satisfy the following
1. Less driving in bumper to bumper city traffic and more of less traffic condition
2. You will be driving 2000Kms + a month considering that Diesel is slightly lesser or more in few states compared to petrol price. I think the future trend also will be similar to the international market where Diesel prices are slightly higher than petrol and our OMC is fixing the price based on international benchmark for the fuels.

I do not think keeping diesel for should not be a problem for 10 years atleast for now.

Coming to my observation on the finish. Please find the New Ertiga Boot area on the top which is integrating with roof. Can some expert clarify what kind of welding is this and why the finish is like this?



Also note the finish on the left side rounded area. Can't this be done in a neat way like old Ertiga and it's not just here. For the entire width of the car the finish is uneven & looks like full of dents.


This is the same observation in the New Swift.


Compare this with how it is done in old Swift


You can also refer to this image of Brezza and it's quite similar to Old Swift and not like the new Swift or new Ertiga.


Also here is the old Ertiga. This is also not like the new ones. Similar to old Swift and Brezza


I have also tried comparing the heaviness of bonnet and hatch door weights, here is my feeling
Bonnet - New Swift < New Ertiga < Old Swift < Brezza.
Brezza is very heavy, may be 2 times of New Swift

Hatch door - New Swift < New Ertiga < Old Swift < Brezza
This is purely my observation when I tried these side by side.

I understand that many people said sheet metal thickness does not translate to safety and I agree to that however is there is no standard or specification which states what should be the min. thickness of sheet metal for various parts for a car? How a car is safe compared to a 2 wheeler if the car prevents you only from weather and from falling down situation which is the case of a bike accident?

[JS Kwt]

Well Thought, Ergonomic, Sorted out Covers



It Gets so clumsy when those Boot covers dont have a proper parking place designed ( when Not in use ) while fitting those extra luggages










Personal Tastes do differ , but these Soft touch Grey materials in the Dash look More Decent than the Wood Finish









FAUX WOOD - INDIAN VERSION



The Faux Wood Color in the Indonesian version looks better
INDONESIAN VERSION

[JS Kwt]

Nice detailed Review of Petrol MT with Positives and Negatives

https://youtu.be/Zu4n32Hkv54

Eagerly anticipating the Team BHP Official Review to come out soon

[Bh.P]

Question to people who have seen the car in flesh: Do the body panels really feel very thin? For example, lot of people reported that the body panels on the Baleno are extremely thin and flexed when touched hard/slightly pressed. Is it same with the new Ertiga as well? This may give some indication on the safety concerns being discussed here.

[aaggoswami]

Had a look at Ertiga yesterday. Test drives will start in two or three days as per salesperson.

1. Front seats are comfortable. My 100 kg frame was comfortable in it. I guess it's shared among Swift/Baleno/Ertiga/Dzire.

2. Front seat height adjustment has a very large range and it took around 34 strokes to get seat from highest to lowest position.

3. Dead pedal (it's not exactly a pedal but either a raised metal part or rubber pad underneath, just speculation) is present in Zdi+ and reasonably comfortable. Am having a broad toe and size 10 shoes, yet found it easy to keep my foot on dead pedal which is sufficiently wide. My foot didn't foul with clutch pedal while using dead pedal.

4. 2nd row is comfortable, spacious. Nothing to complain about and high set seat gives good visibility outside.

5. Faux wood panel on dashboard gives a good visual appeal. Nice execution. Airflow to cupholders is very nice feature in my view. Maruti is learning from Hyundai!

6. Diesel Ertiga that was on display didn't have any protection under engine. Also, the engine felt small in engine bay.

7. Body panels are not as light as Baleno. But at the given Price, I expected a bit more. Boot space is reasonable for the size of this car with all rows up. It's a compact MPV afterall.

Didn't dare to go in 3rd row. The second row seat didn't tumble forward. Marazzo is simply the best here.

Ertiga is priced on higher side in my view for top trim. Rs. 11 lakh plus for Zxi+ for what is essentially an extended Ignis/Swift doesn't sound that attractive to me. Diesel is at a premium over petrol, it has same 1248cc engine that debuted 11 years ago.

This car, overall, is a practical package for India. Vxi is VFM IMO. Marazzo is under threat despite being more robust and spacious. Ertiga already has 2-4 weeks waiting on my city depending on variant. It's an above average product from what we usually expect from Maruti. It still holds "70/75% of Innova at 50% of price".

[JS Kwt]

Originally Posted by blorebuddy

would say go for Diesel
I think the future trend also will be similar to the international market where Diesel prices are slightly higher than petrol and our OMC is fixing the price based on international benchmark for the fuels.
I do not think keeping diesel for should not be a problem for 10 years atleast for now.

Thanks, that's encouraging. Would appreciate more suggestions from the Team regarding this

Originally Posted by AdityaDeane

the reclining seats in the 3rd row, and seems like the 2 split seats can also be moved front and back to liberate more boot or leg space.

Unfortunately there seems to be No sliding function
Reviews till now haven't mentioned it.

Originally Posted by blorebuddy

I have also noticed it. I do not think they have an option to slide. I think the bottom portion of the seat just moves a little bit forward when you recline it. You could have experienced it in the earlier day Push Back seat buses.

Spot On buddy.
Good news is that it Moves the Base a little with each of the 3 Recline Positions and creates some space which is usable.
These pics illustrate the space created

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

2. Front seat height adjustment has a very large range and it took around 34 strokes to get seat from highest to lowest position.

That is phenomenal and very Useful for persons of short stature or ladies !

3. Dead pedal which is sufficiently wide. My foot didn't foul with clutch pedal while using dead pedal.

Good Observation, Not highlighted in the Reviews. Any pics ?

6. Diesel Ertiga didn't have any protection under engine. Also, the engine felt small in engine bay.

How necessary is it ? Any After-Market solutions?

7. Body panels are not as light as Baleno. But at the given Price, I expected a bit more.

That sounds bit relieving

Didn't dare to go in 3rd row.

Is it too cramped for Big-built persons to get in ??

Here are the 3rd Row Stats


Another Observation in the 2nd Row - it has limited Recline - Cannot be reclined fully

This is the Max Recline
Wasted Utility

[AdityaDeane]

Originally Posted by JS Kwt

Unfortunately there seems to be No sliding function
Reviews till now haven't mentioned it.

I saw that in person a couple of days back. It just slides forward when folding down like in the old WagonR. Wishful thinking to have such functions in budget cars. But at least they gave the reclining function...

[ram.iyer95]

While the overall package seems reasonable for the price, Maruti has still not rectified one flaw that the old Ertiga had. And that is the access to the third row.

While the third row is actually surprisingly usable, a one-touch tumble mechanism for the second row seat was badly needed to enable easier entry into the third row. It also makes things easy for the third row occupants while getting down, as they can flip the second row by themselves in a jiffy without anybody's assistance. Now it's still the same two-step fold-and-slide process of the earlier one.

[PYSO]

Originally Posted by ram.iyer95

While the overall package seems reasonable for the price, Maruti has still not rectified one flaw that the old Ertiga had. And that is the access to the third row.

While the third row is actually surprisingly usable, a one-touch tumble mechanism for the second row seat was badly needed to enable easier entry into the third row. It also makes things easy for the third row occupants while getting down, as they can flip the second row by themselves in a jiffy without anybody's assistance. Now it's still the same two-step fold-and-slide process of the earlier one.

A captain seat configuration would have been great, because most often the 3rd row is used by kids, who would prefer to access the 3rd row by walking in between the captain seats.

.

[ram.iyer95]

Originally Posted by PYSO

A captain seat configuration would have been great, because most often the 3rd row is used by kids, who would prefer to access the 3rd row by walking in between the captain seats.

.

Captain seats, though nice to have, might pose problems during some circumstances. With the third row folded, the vehicle becomes a 4 seater. I feel bench seats will fare better in terms of practicality, though they can't match the comfort levels offered by captain chairs. Still, it's nice to have captain seats as an option for prospective buyers.

I wonder what's stopping MSIL from providing all these goodies and make it fully-loaded, as they don't have to worry about product cannibalisation like Mahindra. After all, the Ertiga is their only MPV, and a highly successful one at that.

[PYSO]

A lot of prospective customers like myself - 80% of the time it is just me and wife and 2 kids (so total 4 passengers)

20% of time my parents are also with us (total 6 passengers).

But less than 5% of the time, I would be carrying 6 passengers plus lots of luggage.

So a captain seat version really works for 95% or more of the usage. And my family gets to enjoy the comfort of Captain seats that 95% of the time.

[Nilesh5417]

Originally Posted by JS Kwt

Here are the 3rd Row Stats
Attachment 1821866

While the 3rd seating has improved so to speak, the under thigh support has gone down if I read the stats correctly. Definitely purpose built for kids then.

[JS Kwt]

Originally Posted by Nilesh5417

While the 3rd seating has improved so to speak, the under thigh support has gone down if I read the stats correctly. Definitely purpose built for kids then.

I think the under thigh support has increased - due to seat base Length increase from 430 to 450

The Width decreases 25mm from 1010 to 985 , so the Seat gets slight narrow from sides, where the cup holders are housed, but it is Ok for 2 adults

Decrease of 30mm in Seat Back Height from 560 to 530 could be due to accommodating the Head Rests

Hope this helps