[vaasscit]

Originally Posted by avdhesh15

The lower tune of 140bhp is expected in the 5 seater and the higher tune of 171bhp with 350nm torque in the 7 seater as per chirping of the birdies!

Would there be any hardware changes in engine like different turbocharger or only different states of tune like Polo regular and GT tdi?
If it is latter with a remap we can extract 170 bhp in Harrier. Combined with Landrover platform (1650 Kg) that will be one fine machine

[rish_arora]

Creta 1.4 Diesel is priced at 10 lakhs and goes upto 11.7 lakhs ex-showroom while the Creta 1.6 Diesel is available from 13.2 to 15 lakhs ex-showroom. Now considering a bigger engine and bigger dimension for the Harrier, I reckon Tata should price it around 13 for base variant and upto 17 for the top variant to make a case for itself.

Anything less would be asking too much from TATA given its based on Land Rover Platform and is sourcing its engine from FCA.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by avdhesh15

In my opinion, TATA might look at undercutting the main rivals to start with, i.e. Creta and XUV with the 5 & 7 seaters respectively.

The lower tune of 140bhp is expected in the 5 seater and the higher tune of 171bhp with 350nm torque in the 7 seater as per chirping of the birdies!

In comparison, the Creta has 1.6 engine with 126bhp and 260nm torque, and, XUV has 2.2 engine with 153bhp and 360nm torque.

And the massive XUV 700 with a 2.2 engine at 181bhp and 420 Nm torque which will launch before the H5 twins.

It would make immense sense for Tata to place the Harrier at a slightly lesser price than a Creta to start with and gain market traction. I am less optimistic about the 7 seater now that the XUV 700 seems to be launching earlier and will definitely woo a lot of buyers away.

Unless Tata gives more info soon on the 7 seater including its pricing band it might be a case of too little too late. The XUV 700 is now starting to look a lot more attractive right now.

A 170 bhp on the 5 seater will make it even more difficult for the 7 seater to make a decent case as there does not seem to be a higher tuning for the 2.0 MJD in India unless FCA decides to bring in the BiTurbo version which will substantially increase costs.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by nainan

And the massive XUV 700 with a 2.2 engine at 181bhp and 420 Nm torque which will launch before the H5 twins.

It would make immense sense for Tata to place the Harrier at a slightly lesser price than a Creta to start with and gain market traction. I am less optimistic about the 7 seater now that the XUV 700 seems to be launching earlier and will definitely woo a lot of buyers away.

Unless Tata gives more info soon on the 7 seater including its pricing band it might be a case of too little too late. The XUV 700 is now starting to look a lot more attractive right now.

The 700 aka Ssangyong Rexton is nothing to write home about. If insisting on a Mahindra one would be better of with a xuv500. The Rexton is old school body on frame, has decent roll, not the most appealing of interior quality, limited grunt/performance and the 3rd row seats are extremely cramped on a raised floor. I got this as a 2 day rental in the UK and I'd rather pay a lot less and drive around an XUV 500 anyday.

To make matters worse for M&M, I think this being a CKD import and the present strength (lack) of the rupee they will struggle to price it attractively!

The H5X twins should be a class apart if the pictures are anything to go by.

[S.MJet]

Originally Posted by rish_arora

Creta 1.4 Diesel is priced at 10 lakhs and goes upto 11.7 lakhs ex-showroom while the Creta 1.6 Diesel is available from 13.2 to 15 lakhs ex-showroom.

Only way Harrier can under-cut Creta is by offering their existing 1.5L Diesel tuned upto make, maybe 120hp, (not sure it will be feasible).

[avdhesh15]

Originally Posted by vaasscit

Would there be any hardware changes in engine like different turbocharger or only different states of tune like Polo regular and GT tdi?

If I'm not wrong, it's a single turbo vs a bi turbo. Not just a remap unfortunately.

Originally Posted by nainan

And the massive XUV 700 with a 2.2 engine at 181bhp and 420 Nm torque which will launch before the H5 twins.

But the 700 wants to compete with Endy and Fortuner. The Tata is competing with 500 and Crysta.

[Silverfire]

I don’t think Tata will undercut the Creta.
The Harrier has the Land Rover platform and the Jeep/Fiat engine. Both world class inputs.
Combine this with the premium Interiors and appealing exterior design that Tata has shown it is capable of, this is shaping to be a winner of a product.
Why will they underprice this when they haven’t done that with the Hexa which is a reworked Aria.
My sense is the Harrier will be priced at a premium over the Creta and cover a wide price band starting. Might start at 11 lakh for the 2WD going into compass territory with the 4WD at ~18-20 lakhs.
The 7 seater will probably be at 1-1.5 lakh higher variant to variant.

[vibbs]

Lot of speculation. So I thought why not pitch in.

This is what I feel. Tata will definitely price Harrier above Creta. They would believe (and rightly too I guess) that this is at least half a segment above Creta - Think of the engine being offered and also the space. I think both the 5 and 7 seater versions will be positioned on the either side of Hexa.

But one thing is sure. Tata has managed to whip up some interest in the market for these two cars.

[nainan]

Originally Posted by vibbs

They would believe (and rightly too I guess) that this is at least half a segment above Creta - Think of the engine being offered and also the space. I think both the 5 and 7 seater versions will be positioned on the either side of Hexa.

I personally always have thought the Creta overpriced for what it packs. Also Hexa is a people mover(super spacious generous seating) Innova competitor so a different segment altogether and not in H5 territory at all.

Originally Posted by Silverfire

I don’t think Tata will undercut the Creta.
The Harrier has the Land Rover platform and the Jeep/Fiat engine. Both world class inputs.
Combine this with the premium Interiors and appealing exterior design that Tata has shown it is capable of, this is shaping to be a winner of a product.
Why will they underprice this when they haven’t done that with the Hexa which is a reworked Aria.
My sense is the Harrier will be priced at a premium over the Creta and cover a wide price band starting. Might start at 11 lakh for the 2WD going into compass territory with the 4WD at ~18-20 lakhs.
The 7 seater will probably be at 1-1.5 lakh higher variant to variant.

The Creta should ideally have a lower price and hence Harrier's pricing should be close. I also wish they should provide 4WD from the base variant. The Aria bombed due to its pricing and thats one of the things thats going good for the Hexa. Not sure if they would price the 5 & 7 seater this close as that would make branding them as different SUVs a not so smart strategy. Either ways the D1 segment has a huge gap and with compass sales tanking a smartly priced 7 seater has huge potential with very little competition rather than the overcrowded C2 segment. So why Tata why are you mum on the 7 seater.

[amrutmhatre90]

The reason why Creta is so popular is because it has no direct competitor, yes it is over priced but it is just perfect in terms of everything hence it is a hot selling product.

Harrier is and will be a Creta competitor, this was decided way back in 2016. If you feel Creta is over priced for what it offers, well then wait till what Harrier will be offering for its money.

Birdies mum on the pricing, but it will go back to the roots of Tata, "Value for money".
Also do not forget H5X and its siblings will share most of the components, cost of R&D will reward as it packs 2 vehicles in one base.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by amrutmhatre90

Harrier is and will be a Creta competitor, this was decided way back in 2016.

By who exactly?!

The LR-MS platform is also utilised in the Disco Sport and Evoque. The Evoque is a 5 seater about the same length as the Creta, so why not a competitor?

The H5X will perhaps aim for the space occupied by Hyundai's Tucson! If one needs a cheaper vfm suv from Tata rather than spend all that on a Creta, then the Nexon is a brilliant option!

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by nainan

I personally always have thought the Creta overpriced for what it packs. Also Hexa is a people mover(super spacious generous seating) Innova competitor so a different segment altogether and not in H5 territory at all.



.

Pricing!! Always a tricky topic isn't it?

Who decides a car is over priced or not? In the end it is the market. Any product being launched in the market needs to have a price that the market is ready to pay. Ideally manufacturers would want to price their products at the right level to ensure that there is just enough demand to keep the production lines full. Price it lower, you have higher demand which can't be met and you make less money per piece. Price it higher, and though you earn more per piece, you don't have enough demand to utilize the production line full.

Looking at Creta's numbers, I think Hyundai would be feeling they priced it quite right.

When it came out, even I thought that it is expensive, but with the kind of sales Creta does, I have been proven wrong. Market has accepted it at that price. So this becomes the standard now.

Tata like I said before would want to believe that Harrier is at least half a segment higher than Creta. Hence my feeling they will price it above Creta.

Yes Hexa is a different segment, but here we are talking about price and there will be overlap among the three models, but I guess Tata would want the Harrier at some point below Hexa with the seven seater version being priced at a premium to Hexa.

[prakash_ajp]

Originally Posted by vibbs

Pricing!! Always a tricky topic isn't it?

It is, indeed. That's why some adopt the strategy of low-margin pricing and then depending on the success, increasing the price incrementally. But then people will pick a problem with that approach too, saying success get to their head and all.

That's a very good point you made about supply lines being fed. As somebody who's in a business, I totally understand how difficult it is to keep the cash flow by pricing it low and yet at the same time, keeping it high enough to maintain the 'image'.

Innova and Creta are perfect examples of demand pricing. But Tata might just want to take it the way they did with Nexon. Judging by Hexa's succeess (yes, I consider 1000 pieces a month a success), Harrier (the name not to my taste) can definitely do a lot better. If 1000 people can spend 15+ Lakh for a Tata people mover, definitely there's a hope for a similarly priced macho looking SUV, regardless of whether this is 5 or 7 seater. May be just to attract people to the showroom, throw in a low-spec variant for 12L, and we are good.

[motorworks]

Creta has a very wide price band. The entry level variants are almost 11.5 L on road in Bangalore and the top end diesel automatics are around 18L.

And when I was buying mine, almost all the dealers I was in touch with were stating that they sell a lot of the entry level and top end variants and very less of the mid level variants. I do not know how much this is true, but Hyundai has sort of confirmed this by axing some mid variants like the S+ etc and retaining entry level ones.

So this does mean that there is a lot of scope for the Harrier. They can choose to go the route of the Creta, offer an attractive entry level variant and go up to even 18-19L for a fully loaded one, which by the way is also where the Compass starts. And this 15-20 lakh segment has virtually no competition, just the XUV500 and the Creta dominating this segment, with almost all D segment sedans doing very less numbers. I do not see a reason why Tata would not target this.

[kbishwa]

In my opinion Harrier would be priced close to the price of Creta's top varient, offering more feature vis-a-vis. So expect starting price of around ₹15 lakh ex-showroom. We may further see, depending on response, some stripped down variants at lower price point, and further destroying the Creta sales (remember Duster!)

For higher versions it will compete head-on with the Compass, Tiguan and Tuscon likes, and here undercutting by a couple of lakhs while offering 4WD & sunroof. 7 seater would just an option for those who want so and may compete with Skoda's Kodiaq and likes at much lesser price (localisation, synergy advantages would help).

Success is for sure, getting a capable vehicle with underpinning of the Discovery at less than half price, worth waiting!