[nainan]

Originally Posted by TORQUE_AANJANEY

It seems now a lot of those can be answered. Through reliable sources in TML, I have come to know that Storme's production has either been stopped or is about to be stopped in the immediate future. Stocks might still be there with dealers or with TATA but fresh production has been given a red signal. So 1 competing product out of 3 get's eliminated.

Anyone thinking differently or having a very different opinion than mine feel free to chime in.

Since the Indian Army has already selected the Storme and is planning to replace its Gypsy fleet with the same I dont think Tata can shelve the vehicle. Hence they would have to re-engine the same to meet the BS 6 norms. Since the Storme and the Hexa are built on the same platform this engine can be ported to the Hexa as well. Hence I see it unlikely that the Hexa is discontinued. I think there both Hexa and the H7X both should co-exist to ensure a complete portfolio for Tata. It is time for the Storme to retire and I hope that the legacy is continued by naming the H7X as the Safari. They can add Atmos or Gravis or whatever else at the end to distinguish it.

[Rahul Rao]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

Even if H7X and Hexa cannibalise each other, at least the sale will stay within the Tata stable. One look at a Maruti product lineup and we know they would have multiple options for every budget. Perhaps Tata is also trying to do this in the long run. Going the Fiat or VW way; where you have only a couple of offerings will not really bring in the numbers if they want to mount a serious challenge for the no. 2 slot. Let us not kid ourselves about the no. 1 slot for another few years

If you remember the2 wheeler sector Bajaj was once No1. Then they went down way down, and now are 4th behind Hero Motors, Honda, and TVS. so any thing is possible.
Numbers wise Tata is in 3rd slot, and their nos are about 50% that of Hyundai in No 2 position. Going by the logic that once a buyer matures to a heavier, better built car he rarely goes back to a Maruti, but first cars are almost always Maruti's however pathetic their built.
Another few years may show us Tata closing on to Hyundai but still at No 3 also not at the expense of the first 2, but at the expense of those with falling sales who are even way back.

Originally Posted by selfdrive

In my opinion, the product positioning and target audience of both the 7 seaters could be different. The H7X could be targetted towards personal vehicles and maybe they would release the Hexa for the taxi market, where it could be a serious contender for the overpriced Innova. I too do not see a short term future for the Safari.

Tata is not interested in the taxi market, and are not giving discounts for bulk purchase. A friend who is one of the largest players in the taxi Market (those in pune will easily guess who) was looking to replace about 250 vehicles which had run 5 lakh + km, 170 of them were Aria (as a fact feed back to Tata from his Aria drivers is one of the reasons behind the trouble free Hexa) rest divided between Xylo, Tavera and Innova.
Tatas did not provide any discount, so he has just procured 15 Crysta and 50 Xylo this month, and placed a order for the same numbers next month.
Tata is still not budging in any way for the September lot.

Rahul

[TORQUE_AANJANEY]

Originally Posted by nainan

Since the Indian Army has already selected the Storme and is planning to replace its Gypsy fleet with the same I dont think Tata can shelve the vehicle. Hence they would have to re-engine the same to meet the BS 6 norms. Since the Storme and the Hexa are built on the same platform this engine can be ported to the Hexa as well. Hence I see it unlikely that the Hexa is discontinued. I think there both Hexa and the H7X both should co-exist to ensure a complete portfolio for Tata. It is time for the Storme to retire and I hope that the legacy is continued by naming the H7X as the Safari. They can add Atmos or Gravis or whatever else at the end to distinguish it.

I think the B6 norms are only applicable for passenger vehicles and not commercial and special needs vehicles like those of the army. I could be wrong but I haven't seen any other authentic note till now that contradicts it. The Safari for the army is only made out of a dedicated manufacturing facility of Tata from where passenger vehicles don't roll out. You can check Tata's press release itself when they got the defence order for Storme. So for passenger vehicles production line, Storme is history. Hexa not until B6 norms kick in.

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by TORQUE_AANJANEY

.........
1.) What happens to Hexa ?
2.) How will TATA sell H7X along with Hexa without one seriously cannibalizing the other ?
3.) How does TATA even think of having 3 different 7 seaters - H7X, Hexa and Safari Storme, so closely priced and yet having their individual markets ?

It seems now a lot of those can be answered. Through reliable sources in TML, I have come to know that Storme's production has either been stopped or is about to be stopped in the immediate future. Stocks might still be there with dealers or with TATA but fresh production has been given a red signal. So 1 competing product out of 3 get's eliminated.

........AFAIK, TATA is not working on making the Varicor 400 engine doing duties on Hexa to be made BS6 compatible. ......

All this is theory and there's nothing confirmed at the moment. Also it revolves around insisting that diesels will continue to play an important role in the future....which could be far from the truth.

There are two major developments coming on, BS6 and the other is CAFE. The only way manufacturers can meet these is by using low polluting small capacity petrol engines coupled with hybrid drives to supplement additional power requirements. The decreasing diesel market share, lowering govt. subsidies and strict action on large capacity diesels by the court means they are dying a slow death and this is already seen in falling diesel market shares globally.

The Future Powertrain Conference, a two day UK event held in October 2016 saw a brief presentation from Tata Motors European Technical Centre.

Powering India into the Future: Factors Influencing Future Powertrains

While I have no idea as to what the definitive plans are and multiple news sources have said that Tata and M&M are developing a new family of diesel engines, I doubt how the stricter pollution norms can be met without the help of some firm of electrification.

[TORQUE_AANJANEY]

Originally Posted by shortbread

All this is theory and there's nothing confirmed at the moment. Also it revolves around insisting that diesels will continue to play an important role in the future....which could be far from the truth.

I agree it's some extrapolation but I would disagree that it's just a hyperbolic conspiracy theory. No passenger car manufacturer in India can sell non-BS6 emission compatible cars after Mar 31st, 2020 is a fact unless the govt extends the deadline. So that is not quite up in the air.

And given the complexity involved with trying a new engine (even with modifications to make an existing one compatible with BS6 emission norms especially diesels) is not going to be an easy 2 months long fire drill. Given the time left for the deadline, we should have started to see Hexa testing with the new engine. Mind you, they have to ensure it works with their current 4x4 and auto transmission along with ESP, unless they plan to get all 3 of them newer (which is more than just a mild refresh of the model). With no such activity undertaken yet, I see the chances slim of a facelift coming by for Hexa. Whether TATA will take Hexa out of the market for few months / years after Mar 2020 and re-introduce later in the fleet, with a facelift is speculative at best.

I have also heard from M&M folks that the latest XUV500 is also their last on this platform. Post that the XUV500 will be borrowing the Sangyong Tivoli platform currently being used for XUV300 (as the media calls it now) and given it's modular nature will be extended to accommodate XUV500 dimensions as well. Why all this ? Because if they will rework their mHawk or choose a different engine to be made BS6 compliant they might as well try the platform change at the same time.

This is near short term assessment as until Mar 2020 from now is a shade over 1.5 years away, which is indeed a short runway in automobile planning calendar perspective. The overall diesel ban or mandatory hybrid / EV, etc is much longer roadmap with quite a long distance to cover before we cross that bridge. 2030 is when India plans to ride that tide.

[srishiva]

I guess the Harrier would be below XUV and the 7 seater would be above XUV in pricing. The Harrier would have to be on par with Creta. That should cover a good range of requirement

[Latheesh]

I think they may offer 4 seat option + rear center console (similar to concept) as a MTO variant.

[nainan]

Another speculative render
2018 Tata Harrier H5X production render SUV – Launch confirmed for current fiscal year

[desiaztec]

Pertinent to most of the posts here, the most common and oft read words I noticed are 'I believe', 'My opinion', 'Even if', 'my idea', 'I think', 'I guess'. All of us are only speculating, some criticising and few appreciating. Let's wait for it to be launched before concluding anything.

[Latheesh]

Originally Posted by desiaztec

Pertinent to most of the posts here, the most common and oft read words I noticed are 'I believe', 'My opinion', 'Even if', 'my idea', 'I think', 'I guess'. All of us are only speculating, some criticising and few appreciating. Let's wait for it to be launched before concluding anything.

I am pretty sure all those comments including your latest post are already read by someone from Tata Motors. Most car makers keep close eye on threads like these (and other forums). Whatever we posts here can even influence them during their decision making. People who post here are not just random people but Tata's prospective customers.

Imagine how boring it would be if we just read official car launch/reviews on this forum everyday.

[TORQUE_AANJANEY]

Well I wasn't kidding when I gave the news of the new XUV500 from M&M. However I missed on the Scorpio and Thar. All 3 will undergo fresh redesign with new platforms. Expectedly all of them should launch after or immediately before April 2020.

https://www.cartoq.com/all-new-mahin...irmed-details/

I'm eager to see any such news from the Tata stable, but I haven't. Rather the information has been more around, decommissioning older platforms like the X2 (Aria / Hexa) and replacing them with their newer platforms. So Hexa in it's present set of clothes is going to give way to the freshly designed H7X and a facelift (or may be fresh launch altogether) to a completely different vehicle which won't share much of it's DNA with Hexa / Aria. Time for some shaking up in the Indian Auto industry around status quo.

[arvindmanju]

This thread is about Tata Harrier, off late I see lot of speculations about future of HEXA XUV, can we stick to Tata Harrier discussion please.

thank you,

[sachinayak]

Originally Posted by nainan

Another speculative render
2018 Tata Harrier H5X production render SUV – Launch confirmed for current fiscal year

If the production version looks like this, it would probably be the most handsome SUV out of the Tata Motors stable (and perhaps in the current automotive space too).

Original Image (as posted on Rushlane)



Tweaked Image (for a render in a different color)


Image copyright respective sources.

[Dr.Suraj]

So received this as a forward today. Not sure if this is good news or bad news?
I was under the impression Tata is developing an in-house dual clutch box? The Hyundai Tucson is a TC AT box. 6 speed. 9 speed anyway seemed far-fetched for a Tata. But... LR platform, Fiat engine (same as Compass), Hyundai Gearbox (from Tucson) at Creta pricing - Tata's own 4x4 system. Seats again expected from the same Merc supplier like Hexa? This is turning out to be quite a potpourri of things!
Will they serve us a mouthwatering product - the perfect recipe for success?

[Rahul Rao]

The tata 2.2 lit engine has a 85 Bore 96 stroke which at .885 is at the upper end of optimum ratio for Medium speed diesels. Mahindra and Ford also use the same dimension in their 2.2 Lit engines. There is lot of scope to improve this engine further, another fact is that they also have the option of using the Fiat 2 Lit in place of their own 2.2 Lit in the euro VI version.
Hyundai is planning on assembling its 6 speed gearbox in India, with in house requirement in adequate to sustain the assembly operation, they have to sell to others.
Punch powerglide which supplies transmission for Hexa, GM India and Isuzu MUX may not have an engine suitable for a engine with lesser torque.
Rahul