[nainan]

Originally Posted by kbishwa

In my opinion Harrier would be priced close to the price of Creta's top varient, offering more feature vis-a-vis. So expect starting price of around ₹15 lakh ex-showroom. We may further see, depending on response, some stripped down variants at lower price point, and further destroying the Creta sales (remember Duster!)

For higher versions it will compete head-on with the Compass, Tiguan and Tuscon likes, and here undercutting by a couple of lakhs while offering 4WD & sunroof. 7 seater would just an option for those who want so and may compete with Skoda's Kodiaq and likes at much lesser price (localisation, synergy advantages would help).

Success is for sure, getting a capable vehicle with underpinning of the Discovery at less than half price, worth waiting!

Seriously, pricing a 140 bhp Tata SUV at the same level as a Jeep Compass at 170 bhp. Pricing the 7 seater at Kodiaq prices. Not unless they have not learned their lessons from the Aria. In India a product/brand has to work their way up the value chain and build momentum. The Tiguan and Tucson do not sell number nor does the Kodiaq for the very same reasons. Tata has to maintain a healthy price differential from the Compass for the 5 seater and the 7 seater will make at killing at 20. If they price it more chances are they wont get much momentum.

[itsashishsharma]

Originally Posted by nainan

Seriously, pricing a 140 bhp Tata SUV at the same level as a Jeep Compass at 170 bhp. Pricing the 7 seater at Kodiaq prices. Not unless they have not learned their lessons from the Aria.

Aria was a pricing disaster but post that every launch from Tata has been aggressively priced. Zest, Tiago, Hexa and Nexon, all are true VFM offerings, and hence a sales success. I am sure Tata is going to price this handsome car aggressively. But let's take a break from all this pricing discussion as it's not going to get us anywhere and let's wait till our maseehas like RavenAvi and others come up with a chirp. For all that this product has to offer, it will be a tremendous value and a success. Yes, the pricing will make the difference between a good success and a great one but let us all take a step back and not keep on this never ending discussion.

[IshaanIan]

Does Tata not have the availability of suitable petrol motors for this seemingly brilliant machine?

[amrutmhatre90]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Does Tata not have the availability of suitable petrol motors for this seemingly brilliant machine?

Tata already is testing a Petrol motor on this. Birdies mum on which motor it is.

[IshaanIan]

Originally Posted by amrutmhatre90

Tata already is testing a Petrol motor on this. Birdies mum on which motor it is.

That's good to hear don't care which motor it is as long as it isn't some 3cyl turbo or puny 1.4 turbo nonsense

[speedmiester]

Tata Motors to offer DIY configuration for Harrier.

This will be industry first in India unlike the one offered by Maruti as this involves engine options, seating, add on kits etc.

https://wap.business-standard.com/ar...2300024_1.html

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by neoonwheels

Well, with that MJD 2.0 and Creta pricing, it would certainly do well. BUT if its priced on par with Compass, then it is going to be difficult as in that range, people do care about brand too.

Tata after sales and service has a brand recall value of its own. It is not a positive one.

Originally Posted by rajshenoy

Harrier is easily wider and longer compared to Creta and expected to be more powerful as well. I still doubt if the real car will be as aggressive as the H5x concept but it surely is more premium than Creta.

We will need to look at bhp/ ton figures. Tata cars are not known for being diet conscious.

Originally Posted by speedmiester

Tata Motors to offer DIY configuration for Harrier.

Wow, now this is more like it. So I could have all the safety features on offer and remove all the unwanted features which add up to the costs.
Well, it may not be at a feature level, but at least it could spawn a new base optional model; one without alloys and leather seats (for example) but with all safety features. In any case, most of us upgrade to something else later.
Maybe they should also allow us to bring our own tyres
It will save us a few thousand rupees.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by speedmiester

Tata Motors to offer DIY configuration for Harrier.

This will be industry first in India unlike the one offered by Maruti as this involves engine options, seating, add on kits etc.

https://wap.business-standard.com/ar...2300024_1.html

This will mean a lot of flexibility and inventory holding unless they have excellent AI/ big data systemes to predict configurations and a very lead supply chain.

Again, I hope not, but judging by the Hexa volumes, the numbers willl be low and can allow for this.

[rajshenoy]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

We will need to look at bhp/ ton figures. Tata cars are not known for being diet conscious.

Agreed. However Creta too doesn't feel very aggressive either. The engine provides sufficient power(linearly) and the 2.0 engine on Harrier should offer more power and torque. Tiago and Nexon are selling well now and the brand image/service experience stories will be shared by these new owners which if positive can help TATA

[shortbread]

Originally Posted by IshaanIan

Does Tata not have the availability of suitable petrol motors for this seemingly brilliant machine?

Yes Tata does have a 2.0 petrol engine initially developed as an offering on the Safari Petrol (the rollercoaster ad). Nowadays it does duty on the Xenon export models, especially ones being shipped to the Middle East. Although developed on the previous 2.0 TDI engine, the naturally aspirated petrol variant is quite modern developing 135 PS and is 16 kgs lighter than the diesel.

The engine did wonders to the Safari back in the days when the behemoth used to struggle with the old 2.0 TDI unit. But there were no takers for petrol SUVs a decade back.

Here's an excerpt from the old Overdrive review of the petrol. I believe Tata can use it's new found forced induction expertise to mate a soft turbo-charger to the engine and help churn out around 170-180 PS (The original Peugeot block was already designed to take on a turbo). This mated to a six speed gear box would make for a lovely low-cost entry variant for the Harrier.

Engine & Transmission:

Tons of bottom and mid-range performance. Though the Safari 2.1Exi shares the same engine block with the turbo diesel unit, it has shed a hefty 14kg from the block and a further 2.5kg from flywheel! The four-cylinder engine dohc 16-valve engine uses an aluminum alloy cylinder head and cast iron block. The valve train is run by belt driven double over head cams with hydraulics tappets, one of the newer details which finds its first application in a homegrown powerplant. It has an under square engine configuration with 86mm bore and 90mm stroke, giving a 2092cc engine displacement having a 9.621 compression ration. The engine delivers 135PS at 3800rpm, and 195Nm at 2000rpm gives exceptional low-end and mid-range performance to the Safari. The power and torque curves have been really well matched and designed for an SUV which warrants better mid-range and bottom end performance rather than out and out high rpm power output.

A hydraulic clutch is employed to transfer the power via the five-speed manual gear box which is the same as the diesel powered car except that there is a vast improvement in shift quality over its diesel sibling.

Performance:

Finally the right stuff to match its muscular styling. The Safari 2.1Exi petrol is definitely smoother and more refined compared to its diesel counterpart. It was only the out and out performance that impressed me. In any gear with the air con on with the engine running at around 1500rpm, all it needs is a gentle push on the throttle pedal and there is an instant response from the 2.1 petrol motor. The 2.1Exi has upped its game in the performance stakes, doing a 0 to 100kmph time in 16.81 secs while the standing 400 metres came up in 20.55s; not a road burner but definitely one of the best in its class. The top speed of 154kmph was achieved in 5th gear. The roll-on figures show how much it has gained over the diesel in the mid-range and bottom end.

Due to the nature of power delivery and torque curve, driving the new 2.1Exi is real easy and also fun as overtaking is not a chore, and you don’t have to downshift all the time. Just step on the gas and she will thunder past the vehicle to be overtaken. This blend of power and low end grunt is something the diesel should have had. What is further impressive about the petrol engined Safari is that it is near vibe free and the refinement of the drivetrain is top notch. You would be hard pressed to know that this has all been done in India.

Fuel Efficiency:

Nothing to complain about! There is no gain without pain and for all the extra power and fun you have to pay the price of petrol (instead of diesel). I did not expect any miracles in the fuel efficiency department from a 2-ton SUV. The petrol’s Safari’s worst mileage under flat-out testing at VRDE was 6.5kmpl. On the highway cruise mode at around 85kmph, she managed 12.2kmpl.

source: http://www.tata.com/article/inside/O...=/TLYVr3YPkMU=

[Rahul Rao]

Every one is comparing the harrier pricing to the Creta and Compass.
The fact is that Mahindra has XUV500 which is a segment above, and priced parallel to the Creta. Costlier models of the XUV have many more features and equipments.
Those working on pricing the Harrier will have to consider the XUV too.

Rahul

[AlphaKilo]

Has TATA copied from Kia or the vice-versa?

Source: https://www.autoblog.com/2018/07/19/...#slide-7380348

[vibbs]

Originally Posted by Rahul Rao

Every one is comparing the harrier pricing to the Creta and Compass.
The fact is that Mahindra has XUV500 which is a segment above, and priced parallel to the Creta. Costlier models of the XUV have many more features and equipments.
Those working on pricing the Harrier will have to consider the XUV too.

Rahul

Not exactly.

The Creta begins retailing at 10 lakhs. However that is the 1.4 litre engine, so let's keep it out of discussion. I also hope no one expects Harrier to under cut these variants.

For the 1.6 litre engine there is no bare bones variants and begins only from the mid variants at 13.xx. So in a way, XUV 500 and Hexa have a cheaper entry point. I expect Harrier also to follow same. Slightly below the base variant of Hexa.

But that's where it ends. The most expensive variant of Creta retails at 15.xx whereas both XUV500 and Hexa are much higher.

I believe there is sufficient space between Creta and these two for Harrier to exploit and that is what they will target.

A barebones version below 12 and many options (customisable ones if the latest news to be believed) staggered between 13-15 depending on the selections done. And finally a full option Top variant -Auto+AWD/4WD around 16.5 - 17.

Of course I will be happy if Tata pull a coupe and undercut Creta variant wise, but looks unlikely at the moment.

Regarding concerns of weight for Harrier, the discovery sport with whomever it shares it underpinnings weighs over 1700kgs. I expect Harrier to be around there as well. So the power per tonne would be lesser than Creta I suppose. But then that is the case with much more expensive Discovery sport as well. I think it comes with a 148 Bhp engine?

[TORQUE_AANJANEY]

Before I bought the Hexa earlier this year in May upgrading from the XUV500, I had a lot of questions about -
1.) What happens to Hexa ?
2.) How will TATA sell H7X along with Hexa without one seriously cannibalizing the other ?
3.) How does TATA even think of having 3 different 7 seaters - H7X, Hexa and Safari Storme, so closely priced and yet having their individual markets ?

It seems now a lot of those can be answered. Through reliable sources in TML, I have come to know that Storme's production has either been stopped or is about to be stopped in the immediate future. Stocks might still be there with dealers or with TATA but fresh production has been given a red signal. So 1 competing product out of 3 get's eliminated.

After March 31, 2020 as per the new emission norms (BS6) kicking in, no car manufacturer in India can continue to have fresh production or vehicle launches based on BS4 engine / emission, though they shall be allowed 6 more months after Mar '20 to clear the stock. AFAIK, TATA is not working on making the Varicor 400 engine doing duties on Hexa to be made BS6 compatible. Hexa will remain the last car to host the Varicor 400. The newer engines from FCA to do duties on Harrier and H7X is transversely mounted as both are expected to be primarily front wheel driven cars with either AWD or 4x4 capability (like Discovery Sport), unlike the Varicor which is a RWD longitudinally mounted engine in Hexa & Storme. And if at all TATA was interested in making the FCA engine compatible in a longitudinally mounted setup in Hexa, the R&D should have already started by now and we should have already started to see test mules of this new Hexa, if a facelift is to be expected by Mar 2020. But none of that is in works and it won't be a rabbit out of a hat, that TATA will be able to pull after Mar, 2020 when Hexa will have to be discontinued in absence of a facelift.

So the signs are ominous that Hexa production will discontinue after Mar, 2020. H7X is expected to launch towards mid or end of 2019. TATA could also delay it marginally to coincide with the end of road for Hexa to completely eliminate cannibalization or have both of them continue for brief period of 2-3 months by launching H7X end of 2019, before Hexa stocks clear. Hence I think H7X might be only marginally costlier than Hexa or even similarly priced and not at all in the range of Endeavor, Fortuner, CR-V, XUV700, etc. And on top TATA won't have to worry about 2 very similarly priced vehicles in the same segment because as H7X would be starting it's journey Hexa would be almost ending it.

So while it aches my heart, that Hexa like Aria will have a shorter lifetime runway (since now I own it) 2017-2020, me and all my fellow Hexa owners will have to swallow this bitter pill and resign to the thought that we will be owners of an extinct species of car soon and this fact along with emissions norm changes won't make the resale any sweeter as well.

On the other hand I keep my fingers crossed on how much of a polished product can Harrier (H5X) / H7X be from the TATA stable ? Sure they have Land Rover expertise in the house but this will be their first attempt of a monocoque SUV with a transversely mounted engine in the mid size segment (ignore Nexon as it's based on the Indica platform and is a sub 4 meter compact SUV). M&M took multiple attempts in their similar venture with XUV to make it the product that it is today. The 1st gen XUV owners in the initial batches were literally made guinea pigs with too many teething issues on the XUV. So it will be tough for TATA and tougher for TATA fanboys part of the Sierra, Safari and Hexa cred to accept any half baked (engineered) product from TATA who cannot hold a candle to the above 3 iconic brands from TATA.

Anyone thinking differently or having a very different opinion than mine feel free to chime in.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by TORQUE_AANJANEY

2.) How will TATA sell H7X along with Hexa without one seriously cannibalizing the other ?
3.) How does TATA even think of having 3 different 7 seaters - H7X, Hexa and Safari Storme, so closely priced and yet having their individual markets ?

You have explained in detail how the strategy could pan out through 2020 and beyond. Instead of adding to that, I will add my thoughts about your second and third questions.

Even if H7X and Hexa cannibalise each other, at least the sale will stay within the Tata stable. One look at a Maruti product lineup and we know they would have multiple options for every budget. Perhaps Tata is also trying to do this in the long run. Going the Fiat or VW way; where you have only a couple of offerings will not really bring in the numbers if they want to mount a serious challenge for the no. 2 slot. Let us not kid ourselves about the no. 1 slot for another few years

In my opinion, the product positioning and target audience of both the 7 seaters could be different. The H7X could be targetted towards personal vehicles and maybe they would release the Hexa for the taxi market, where it could be a serious contender for the overpriced Innova. I too do not see a short term future for the Safari. I hope Tata works towards reviving Safari/ Sierra/ Gypsy from the drawing board/ on a new platform in the medium to long term.