[New_Kid_Jay]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

Hey Jay! Boy did you throw a rock at a hornets' nest by saying so many things negative about Maruti. Many of them true even!

But in reality some things are mathematical certainties out there. There is no match to the K10B. Period. Like you said - Maruti can actually send a bicycle with that engine and people will buy. The reason - the engine is that good indeed! So Suzuki's mechanical mastery is pretty much beyond doubts. Its been 2 decades now and not a single car maker from any origin has managed to make a petrol engine upto even 1.2L that is better on all aspects than Suzuki's. And that's something!

Maruti isn't promoting driving these kei-spec cars on highways at 120kmph. These are city cars. Its us morons - the unread customers - who take cars in the B1 segment on the highways to race with Volvo buses. Its not Maruti's responsibility then is it? Customers should take a calculated decision in buying a car. If they pull out stunts with the SPresso (or any other car!) it sadly falls in the category of "natural selection" I'd say.

As a shopping/office/school run car - the SPresso, Celerio, WagonR K10, Alto - are all pretty good. And unchallenged.

We can't say its Maruti's fault that other car makers are not able to make cars that are good and reliable enough for these purposes. They come up with a KWID that sounds like a lawn mower or a Nano that makes people feel they are the poorest in the world.

(P.S. - I'm not a fan of the car as such. If I were shopping in ARENA, I'd still pick the Celerio.)

I'm well aware of the risk I took. Got a mod warning for it too.

Forums are meant to be heated. I don't mind that.

Not the only enthusiast forum I'm on. See, its not Suzuki I have a problem with. It's Maruti. Suzuki will profit with better cars too and Japs are honorable businessmen, to say the least. Never seen a emission scandals on them *wink.


I've grown up around Maruti and seeing the sad state of its current affairs, I am just an injured fanboy. I remember traversing Himachal roads in an 800. So much fun.

Same here, the only suzuki I'll pick in the entry level is the Celerio. Clean and simple car. It doesn't try to be something its not.

As for the other comments, we all are here to voice our opinions. Try not to start the blame game and just accept it.

At the mods, apologies that I went out of hand in a few places. Just the frustration of an enthusiast.

[ashis89]

Originally Posted by New_Kid_Jay

There are two targets for this car: the city drivers who are looking for an easy city car and the others. You do realise the others will try to munch highway miles in this thing. The new WagonR already has a problem with highway speeds and this one's no different. Another thing to worry about on the road.

Regards,
Jay.

A couple of decades ago, people did city and highway drives in M800s. That doesn't mean it was the perfect highway car but it wasn't incapable of a long highway drive.

Today, out on the highways, we see all varieties of cars. It's not always the WagonR, Kwids and Altos involved in accidents but even much superior cars fall victims to bad drivers (or sheer bad luck). A Nano is as capable a long distance tourer as the person driving it. It is up to the driver to know the car's capabilities and remain within those limits.

Originally Posted by New_Kid_Jay

As for the other comments, we all are here to voice our opinions. Try not to start the blame game and just accept it.

"Others" might not be able to afford a second/different car for the highway drives and have to manage with their WagonRs.

PS: I own a WagonR k10 which has done 86k kms, including several long highway drives. And no it is not perfect for the highways!

Coming to the S-Presso, the first one I saw was a red one with lot of chrome bits and I hated it. The second one I saw was a black one and it looked very smart! In the right colors, it does look good.

[RedStallion]

Originally Posted by New_Kid_Jay

Never seen a emission scandals on them *wink.

Please find attached link for your reference:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-a8485051.html

Cheers!

[New_Kid_Jay]

Originally Posted by ashis89

A couple of decades ago, people did city and highway drives in M800s. That doesn't mean it was the perfect highway car but it wasn't incapable of a long highway drive.

Today, out on the highways, we see all varieties of cars. It's not always the WagonR, Kwids and Altos involved in accidents but even much superior cars fall victims to bad drivers (or sheer bad luck). A Nano is as capable a long distance tourer as the person driving it. It is up to the driver to know the car's capabilities and remain within those limits.



"Others" might not be able to afford a second/different car for the highway drives and have to manage with their WagonRs.

PS: I own a WagonR k10 which has done 86k kms, including several long highway drives. And no it is not perfect for the highways!

Coming to the S-Presso, the first one I saw was a red one with lot of chrome bits and I hated it. The second one I saw was a black one and it looked very smart! In the right colors, it does look good.

As a youngling, who's trying to buy his own first car with his own hard work, I understand. I'm choosing to skip the entry-level entirely even though I can afford it rn.

Cars have gotten expensive over time and in India, owning two cars is a luxury most cannot afford. Totally agree to your point. But it doesn't mean we buy mediocre stuff. That was proven when the Estillo came out. It sold for the mechanicals but was forgotten within a year. This is probably just another one of those. The difference being, it has a bigger hype.

About the 800, while worse mechanically and on the safety parameters, had a better aerodynamic structure and a heavier chassis which planted it. The S-presso, loses out here.

Everyone defends this car by saying take a test drive and floor it on the highway, but as someone who studies cars, it's easy to see the problems even without a TD. I did accompany a friend for its test drive for everyone saying I have an armchair opinion.

As for the black shade, every car looks good in black.

This is my last comment for the S-presso. Jay out! Peace!

Originally Posted by RedStallion

Please find attached link for your reference:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-a8485051.html

Cheers!

That's definitely interesting. Well, you learn something new everyday. I must have missed it! Thanks.

[romeomidhun]

Originally Posted by New_Kid_Jay

Cars have gotten expensive over time and in India, owning two cars is a luxury most cannot afford. Totally agree to your point. But it doesn't mean we buy mediocre stuff.

Can you give some examples of "extra ordinary" cars in this price segment? Alto? Kwid? Santro? Redigo? Celerio?

You move up in the price segment, and you can buy better hatches. You can even buy a Mini Cooper. But not all are cash-rich. 4 lakh is a big money for many.

Originally Posted by New_Kid_Jay

...it's easy to see the problems even without a TD.

How do you know the engine characteristics, transmission, steering feedback, NVH levels etc without a TD? The maximum you can infer is about its cornering abilities by seeing a higher center of gravity.

Judging a car by its looks is the most foolish assessment.

[Porschefire]

Originally Posted by New_Kid_Jay

But it doesn't mean we buy mediocre stuff.

Hello Jay, welcome to the forum! I see that you've joined recently and already setting threads on fire! Please don't mistake me, I tell this in a good way.
"Mediocrity" is a broad term that is used very loosely by most of us. Broaden your horizon and take a look at cars below INR 20L sold in India for a moment, you will find many that are "mediocre" as per your explanation.

About the 800, while worse mechanically and on the safety parameters, had a better aerodynamic structure and a heavier chassis which planted it. The S-presso, loses out here.

What is the S-Presso losing here exactly? Although there is no comparison (since we're talking different eras), I'm pretty sure the modern day S-Presso is more frugal, tougher, safer, faster and planted than the 800.

but as someone who studies cars, it's easy to see the problems even without a TD.

Kindly elaborate on this buddy, for a noob like me, I would love to know how to evaluate cars without taking a TD.

As for the black shade, every car looks good in black.

True that, but the S-Presso doesn't come in black.

That's definitely interesting. Well, you learn something new everyday. I must have missed it! Thanks.

Pretty rudimentary miss considering you study cars, isn't it?
Just kidding.

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by New_Kid_Jay

but as someone who studies cars, it's easy to see the problems even without a TD.

Welcome to TeamBHP Jay!

Though you are a part of other enthusiast forums, thank you for putting the effort and doing us a favour by jumping aboard this forum

I am curious, since you say you study cars. Help me understand, because anyone who is a member of this forum, became approved to be one because they study cars too. Or do you mean you are academically/professionally into dissecting automobile engineering?

If you are an academic/professional who research automobiles, we would be grateful and lucky enough to understand your points as to why Spresso disgusts you, and what inference you have made to conclude Spresso to be a technically inferior product, so much that Maruti is doing a blasphemy to Indian car buyer?

But if your study of cars is similar to plenty others in this forum, which goes by pure common sense, these are the points that anyone would come up with, as reasons why they dislike Spresso:

1. Looks
2. Proportions that makes it an aerodynamic disaster - high CoG, smaller tyres - a lot of chance for a roll over, or at least, increased body roll- inferior handling characteristics around corners
3. Lack of 5* safety - wafer thin panels, Maruti's infamous structurally unstable platform

Now let me shed some of my understanding about the segment Spresso is placed in.

A segment, which currently consists of

Maruti Alto, K10, Spresso
Renault Kwid
Hyundai Santro
Datsun Redigo
Tata tiago

Tell me which of these is a
1. Aerodynamically efficient
2. Breathtakingly beautiful
3. Safe

Gorgeous Kwid/ premium Santro look good but are unsafe (GNCAP says). Redigo is going to be an orphan without an A.S.S. Tiago is pretty, built strong (doesn't mean it is safe, ex- Strongly built nano, scored 0 stars), and the petrol engine isn't as accomplished as the Maruti's, and Tata A.S.S and QC are something people would rather avoid.

Who is an A segment buyer?

Someone graduating from a two wheeler, with a very limited budget, who wants something that can seat 4. He isn't ready to spend much on service and spares. He isn't ready for breakdowns and niggles. He isn't taking it to Buddh or MMRT to burn the rubber. He wants something that is cheap to acquire and run, can work flawlessly for years to come and has a pretty strong A.S.S backing it up.

This is why Maruti wins the cheap A/B segment game. You cannot expect Maruti to give you a car with European looks and build, Japanese reliability, Italian handling characteristics, Korean features at a 4 lakh OTR price. Well, none of the automobile manufacturers provide such a car. We need to blame all companies if we have to. It is not that Maruti is demanding a Skoda money and giving us a Maruti.

Maruti is doing what any business entity does. Gauge the customer need, satisfy it and make profit out of it. Simple! I am no ways related to Maruti nor am I it's fanboy. I support Spresso here because it does what it intends to do. It completely satisfies a first time car buying non-enthusiast who finds it beautiful and doesn't care about what others think of him driving one.

Maruti doesn't care about enthusiasts. Those who proclaim to be enthusiasts can save up enough money to buy enthusiast cars(definitely nothing from A segment) or go the pre-owned route.

Just lashing out on an entry level car just for its looks and handling characteristics is absurd. If you believe tall boy structures are life threatening, say hi to so many people like me, who have been throwing 2 tonne, tall, aerodynamic blunders like the Safari/Scorpio around corners for decades now. We are all alive and well

[nikhilthegunner]

Originally Posted by New_Kid_Jay

As a youngling, who's trying to buy his own first car with his own hard work, I understand. I'm choosing to skip the entry-level entirely even though I can afford it rn.

Even though this might be off topic, I'm interested in knowing what car you're planning to pick. Which segment are you planning?

[Sheel]

Originally Posted by New_Kid_Jay

Try not to start the blame game and just accept it.

Accept what?


And what blame game are you talking about?

[Nalin1]

New_Kid_Jay

You are welcome to voice your opinions on this forum which is what makes threads interesting.

But when you voice your opinions with several like minded people waiting to voice theirs, expect some healthy discussions and difference of opinions.

People who do not accept your opinions will not just shake their heads after reading, but will pin down a reply to counter. How else will they agree/disagree??

[Reinhard]

Its okay fellows, he said he is done with his comments. All may not agree to his thought process & its okay on a forum. Let's not continue an argument anymore. He is new in the group & we want members to only continue & grow. Let's not take it off topic further. Only misunderstandings will grow. Peace .
===

So I saw a few new WagonR LXis recently & their ORVMs are the saddest thing I saw over last few months in all fields of my life. They literally pushed me into depression while driving. My Alto gets good mirrors. The old gen WagonR also got good ORVMs in LXi trim. What is with the new one! It looks smaller than the one on Nano to me. Totally disproportionate for the car.

Its as if we have an ORVM spectrum with WAGONR LXi at the lowest end and Harrier at the other! Everything else in the middle is good!

Anyone seen that on the LXi SPresso? Is it the same unit? Or a different one? I'm not able to see it properly anywhere in pictures yet.

[rrnsss]

@Prasannadhana. I agree with you on almost all points.

Let me add my view points in response to the enthusiastic people.

1. Looks of a car . Totally useless to me. I am sitting inside the car. The cars next to me on the road need to be beautiful. There is a crude analogy about the irrelevance of the looks of a woman when the lights are off, but I will refrain.

2. A segment cars bought by new buyers. Not really. When I looked at my latest car, I considered all the way from INNOVA to GO PLUS. Cost was not an issue. Will the car help me make my life easier by suiting my requirements..is the issue. I may have a thousand rupees to spend on breakfast, but I really just want to eat 4 iddlys. Just because I have money does not mean I HAVE to eat pizza in the morning. Just because I eat iddly does not mean I am poor. I am a human, I have needs. Car is a tool. Will the tool serve my needs?

3. Safety . 90% of safety is related to safe driving practices. Anyone who crosses 80 kmph on the highway is playing with fire no matter which car. Agreed that A segment cars are flimsy. But we can compensate for its build by driving safely. All cars in my opinion should be driven with extreme caution. India is a mobocracy. If you strike an other person in their local area you are done for. Nomatter if he was coming on the wrong side, drunk. If you don't understand the reality of the tribal country you are living in, may god help you.

4. A segment cars are bare bones. Yes ... And it is wonderful!!! If someone gifts me a merc E or bmw 7 , I would honestly sell it to someone and buy a simple car. Who wants to deal with all the complications of a behemoth? In city traffic an autorickshaw can keep up with a ferrari. On the highway it is ILLEGAL and unsafe to drive at high speeds. Having these "enthusiastic" cars are illogical.

5. Spresso has small wheels. So does the train I take to go to Pollachi. What is your point ? Why would I want massive wheels intruding into my footwell and boot reducing the space? Seriously... what is all this fuss about the wheels? Stop looking at the car for how it looks and start looking at it for what it does. Personally I find big wheeled cars fugly.

6. High center of gravity.... Yes... Some of us know how to slow down when taking corners. Those who don't understand the laws of physics can....well it is a self correcting problem.

As prasanna mentioned, we want a ferrari but want to pay cycle price and pretend that we are driving in Germany. All delusional expectations.

[PrasannaDhana]

Originally Posted by Reinhard

Only misunderstandings will grow. Peace

Absolutely, but then, there is no growth without a debate.

There is nothing in a forum to get offended about. As Ben Shapiro says "Facts don't care about feelings".

We are all sharing our individual perspective of what we believe are facts. We need not be offended when some one else's perspective isn't in line with ours.

[Kosfactor]

The small SUV`s discussion has run into page 44, incredible. I`m happy to see it succeed in the market as well (for now). We welcomed Ecosport, why not this? what`s so different here? is it the Maruti badge?

Safety is moving from 2 wheels and having to balance 2 kids and wife on a scooter \ bike to a 4 wheeled enclosed automobile called car \ suv \ whatever you wish to call it. SUV is in trend, Maruti will be stupid not to have one in their Portfolio that would appeal to the Alto K10 buyer. Any SUV body style is perceived to be upmarket \ trendy than its equivalent priced sedan \ hatch - For now.

I know plenty of people who talk about safety, buy stuff with 6 airbags that has no room for people with legs and then leave it at home, zip through traffic without helmet in a scooter! Humans (with high center of gravity in themselves) are pretty interesting creatures.

[ashutoshb]

I think, other than the toothed grille and thin, tiny wheels, the S-Presso is alright to look at. I tried to place a regular grille on it and here is the result.

A bit simple, but, IMHO, it looks less polarising now.