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Old 10th April 2019, 18:31   #106
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

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Originally Posted by achilles101 View Post
They are not leaving.. this is a way to maintain presence but with lesser cost and risk
Sorry my bad , but they have surely taken a step back from market
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Old 10th April 2019, 18:38   #107
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post

Ah oh... Now this is taking things too far. I really am at a loss of words here. It is not Fiat premises in case you missed it. The Ranjangaon plant is a 50:50 JV between Fiat and Tata. Both partners have equal stakes and have the same interest of maximising the productivity of the plant. So if Fiat does not have enough production requirements at present to utilize the capacity it suits Tata to use that for extending their production lines.

It has absolutely nothing to do with Tata being in awe of Fiat quality or any such other thing. So the basic premise of the assumption that the quality will go downhill may be faulty.
Zappo, while one can argue about plant utilisation being the prime reason for Tata to decide where Nexon can be produced (they have 2 plants, Pune and Sanand lying unutilized to a large extent), the points I am raising about quality are my first hand experience.
When I used to work in Pune plant, there was this drive of migrating to European Quality systems especially the World Class Quality (WCQ) which is similar to Lean but customised to European methods. Guess where the WCQ was followed rigorously? That was one of the main intention of Tata to tie-up with Fiat for manufacturing. The vendors also had to migrate to this new system and pass audits. Whoever selects the vendors, ultimately the vendors have to get parts approved by the plant (Vendor Quality). There used to be cases where Vista manufactured at Pune plant and Ranjangaon plant could be identified.
To avoid going further off-topic, Ranjangaon plant's quality levels are actually very good.

Now, if M&M and Ford will need to onboard either or's quality system to run it like a seamless unit, there is going to be friction. Ultimately it may result in better quality of M&M or toned down quality of Ford, only time will tell. Even suppliers used to come to me and say with pride, that they are Fiat approved or VW approved but would stick with us for goodwill and volumes.

Last edited by turbospooler : 10th April 2019 at 19:08. Reason: Corrected few points
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Old 10th April 2019, 18:39   #108
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I don't think they are here to stay. I think this is a politically correct way of signaling an eventual exit. Do we honestly believe that they will buy back their way back to 100% ever in case things improve. This IMHO clearly states the intention of Ford, they have realized this is a market that they can't crack even after 20 years.
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Old 10th April 2019, 18:58   #109
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

I think this speaks volumes about how serious Ford were looking at the Indian market even before the so called "Automotive Boom". Gross mismanagement, ignorant top level executives and shear negligence to offer Indian customers what we love the most - Small, spacious, fuel efficient, affordable hatchback. For all its relatively unknown brand name back then, Hyundai took the Indian market and its customers more seriously.

Quote:
Ford entered India in 1995 and then became the Ford that we know of in March 1998.

Current Portfolio:
Ford Mustang (Launched July 2016) Built in USA.
Ford Endeavour (Launched January 2016) Built in India.
Ford Ecosport (Launched June 2013) Built in India.
Ford Figo Aspire (Launched August 2015) Built in India.
Ford Freestyle (Launched April 2018) Built in India.
Ford Figo (Launched September 2015) Built in India.[16]

Discontinued:
Ford Escort (19962001)
Ford Ikon (19992010)
Ford Mondeo (20012006)
Ford Fusion (20042010)
Ford Fiesta Classic (2005-2015)
Ford Fiesta (2011-2015)

Hyundai came to India in September 1998.

Manufactured locally:
Hyundai Eon (Launched 2011)
Hyundai i10 (Launched 2010)
Hyundai Grand i10 (Launched 2013)
Hyundai Xcent (Launched 2014)
Hyundai Elite i20 (Launched 2014)
Hyundai i20 Active (Launched 2015)
Hyundai 4S Fluidic Verna (Launched 2011)
Hyundai Elantra (Launched 2010)
Hyundai Creta (Launched 2015)
Hyundai Tucson (Launched 2016)

Imported:
Hyundai Santa Fe Third Generation (Launched 2014)

Discontinued:
Hyundai Santro (19982014)
Hyundai Santro Xing (DISCONTINUED)
Hyundai Accent GTX (19992002)
Hyundai New Look Santro (20012003)
Hyundai Sonata Gold (20012005)
Hyundai Sonata (Launched 2012)
Hyundai Accent Viva (20022004)
Hyundai Accent CRDi (20022006)
Hyundai Terracan (2003-2007)
Hyundai Getz (20042007)
Hyundai Accent GLS (20042005)
Hyundai Sonata Embera (20052009)
Hyundai Accent GLE (20062011)
Hyundai Verna (20062010)
Hyundai Getz Prime (20072010)
Hyundai i10 (2007-2010)
Hyundai Verna Transform (2010-2011)
Hyundai Elantra (20042010)
Hyundai Tucson (20052010)
Hyundai Sonata Transform (20102011)
Hyundai Santa Fe Second Generation (2010-2013)
Hyundai Accent Executive (2011-2013)
Hyundai i20 (2008-2014)
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Old 10th April 2019, 19:00   #110
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

This is disturbing news. Though I was following the grapevine on this collaboration news, I always assumed that it would be restricted to platform sharing like the Toyota + Maruti agreement. The 49-51 and handing over control to M&M is not something I'm very excited about.

Sigh. One more point against my impending buying decision for the valiant Endeavour. Not to mention the possible panic drop in resale of Fords.

Last edited by vigneshkumar31 : 10th April 2019 at 19:01.
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Old 10th April 2019, 19:08   #111
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Ford may be biding it's time till 2030 when the electric powered cars totally take over and almost all auto majors switch away from Internal Combustion engines. This is when Ford makes a comeback if they have a good portfolio of EV by that time and take over the JV from mahindra ? They don't want to accumulate losses till then.
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Old 10th April 2019, 19:09   #112
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

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Originally Posted by vigneshkumar31 View Post
]Sigh. One more point against my impending buying decision for the valiant Endeavour. Not to mention the possible panic drop in resale of Fords.
Panic drop in Ford resale? You just said the magic words. I buy used and the Endy suddenly jumped to the top of the line for my next ride when I buy it.
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Old 10th April 2019, 19:19   #113
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

To an extent it is a failing for India Inc too that we are losing big car manufacturers.

Its dissapointing to see that they couldnt use India as a manufacturing hub.

We need acknowledge that infrastructure, labour quality and governance in India is lacking compared to manufacturing hubs such as Thailand and China.
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Old 10th April 2019, 20:18   #114
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Got this over a WhatsApp group.

Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra-img20190410wa0006.jpg
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Old 10th April 2019, 20:27   #115
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

So will the Mahindra badge be slapped onto existing and future fords like the Dacia Logan?

Hope the Ford trucks, i.e., Endeavour don't have to bear this ignominy. Will Mahindra get access to the thailand spec 2.0 diesel BS6 compliant engine for the Endeavours replacement next year onwards? Or will it get the 2.2 from Xuv/Scorpio.

What about the newly developed dragon petrol engines. Will Mahindra chose them over it's own newly developed 3 cylinder petrol engines?

Are we to say goodbye to Sync 3 in future that will be replaced by Mahindra electronics?
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Old 10th April 2019, 20:59   #116
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

The original Ford - Mahindra was one of the few joint ventures where the principals parted with no acrimony on either side. Essentially because well thought out achievable goals (for both parties) were spelt out, with a timeframe. The two parties, I think, are comfortable with each other.

What I'd like to know is how MM is funding its acquisitions, and model launches. Hope it is not a house of cards.

Regards
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Old 10th April 2019, 21:03   #117
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Looks like Ford on the whole has shaken up their business' leadership positions: CNBC: Ford shakes up management in a move to retool business model to high-tech auto market.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/10/ford...ech-autos.html
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Old 10th April 2019, 22:45   #118
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Probably this is why some auto enthusiasts have to compromise with Maruti and Hyundai although they would like to purchase Fords or Fiats.
I was thinking of buying an Aspire,but after this news I am definitely apprehensive and will give it a second thought.

Probably I will check out Tata cars now.

Last edited by autohead666 : 10th April 2019 at 22:47.
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Old 10th April 2019, 23:04   #119
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

Quote:
Originally Posted by thoma View Post
Got this over a WhatsApp group.

Attachment 1867427
The other portion of the circular:
Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra-0_img20190410wa0008.jpg
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Old 11th April 2019, 01:38   #120
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Default re: Ford to end independent operations in India; will hold 49% in JV with Mahindra

I think we are reading too much into the tie up with M&M. Some of my personal observations

Sales >> Ford should not be compared to GM. GM had cars that just didnt sell. GM had rubbish like Sail, Aveo, Enjoy, which were all nothing but poorly engineered Chinese cars. Bad build quality, no specific USP, bland design. Ford on the other hand has decent numbers. Ecosport does 4.5k constantly. The Aspire/Freestyle/Figo easily brings another 4k. The Endeavour sells about 500 units every month, thats a 30 lakh SUV, with decent margins. As long as there is a demand for their cars, they have no reason not to keep selling. I do not see a dip in demand for them in the near future as their cars come with their unique USPs and there are takers for them.

Service >> As long as there are decent sales numbers, ASS will not be a problem as there will be a constant source of revenue for the company and the workshops which will keep the owners of the service centres happy. For GM, the cars were not selling, So no revenue, it must have been a immense loss making propositions for the dealers and the workshops alike.

With ultra expensive dealerships and service centers due to rising costs, including ever rising operational and capital costs, the numbers that Ford are managing might not be enough to sustain having multiple dealerships and service centers. So what they might be trying is to spread and share the costs with M&M. I assume we will see M&M and Ford co branded workshops, which can service vehicles from both brands.
Increased utilisation , better return on revenue, its a win win for everyone.

We are also in the midst of a slowdown in car sales, nationally as well as globally and everyone is saying that nobody knows how long this will last. In such scenarios, it will only be sensible to share costs and keep expenditures low. Also the upcoming rise of EVs entails very high investments, with no guaranteed returns. So every car manufacturer is trying to make partnerships to ensure that they have the requiste technology when it comes of age and that it does not go belly up due to the high investments that such EVs require. Ford has already mentioned that they are not exiting India, on second thoughtsm why should they , now that they are finally in black. Also they are among the major exporters.
Just like GM continues to export after exiting India, I dont think Ford would like to stop their exports either. So they will keep producing cars, but are just trying to sell cars with M&M thereby reducing the huge costs that are required to maintain a dedicated sales and service channel.

M&M will be happy with the know how transfer from Ford, but I'm sure Ford will not be sharing their upcoming EV or alternate fuel technologies.
Also more revenue through the same showrooms will be more than welcomed, my thought.
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