[harry10]

Originally Posted by ashvek3141

13.5 on road is too step IMO.

I just hope that Kia prices the car sensibly and doesn’t get too carried away with the raging reviews!

Sorry, I meant top variant AT should be 13.5. Nexon has XMA at 11.2 so ideally Sonet HTK+ AT shouldn't be more than 11.5. Yes, Amt vs TC isn't a good comparison but for a general buyer Automatic is just automatic.

[CEF_Beasts]

The Kia Sonet has garnered 6523 bookings on Day 1 I expect it to be none other than a blockbuster just like its elder brother the Seltos!

[Aditya]

Kia has announced that it has received 6,523 bookings for the Sonet sub-4 m crossover on the very first day. The company had started accepting bookings on August 20, 2020 at its dealerships across India and on the Kia Motors India website.

While the booking amount has been set at Rs. 25,000, the price of the vehicle will be revealed in September. The Sonet will be produced at Kia’s manufacturing facility at Anantapur, Andhra Pradesh. The variants of Sonet will be broadly classified into two trim levels - Tech Line and GT Line.

To power the Sonet, Kia has used two petrol engines – a Smartstream 1.2-litre four-cylinder engine and a 1.0 T-GDi turbocharged, direct injection unit and a 1.5-litre CRDi diesel engine. The transmissions on offer include 5-speed and 6-speed manuals, a seven-speed DCT, a 6-speed automatic, and a 6-speed clutchless intelligent Manual Transmission (iMT).

The Sonet is equipped with features such as a 10.25-inch HD touchscreen head-unit with navigation, live traffic information and over-the-air map updates, an air purifier with virus protection, a Bose seven-speaker sound system with sub-woofer, ventilated front seats, LED sound mood lights, remote engine start for automatic and manual transmission via UVO Connect and smart key, multi-drive and traction modes for select automatic variants, wireless smartphone charger with cooling function and UVO Connect suite of technologies, with a range of 57 features including voice assist.

Safety features include six airbags, ABS with EBD, electronic stability control, hill-start assist control, vehicle stability management, brake assist and more.

Link to Team-BHP News Article

[ashvek3141]

Originally Posted by harry10

Sorry, I meant top variant AT should be 13.5. Nexon has XMA at 11.2 so ideally Sonet HTK+ AT shouldn't be more than 11.5. Yes, Amt vs TC isn't a good comparison but for a general buyer Automatic is just automatic.

If the GTX+ Diesel AT is priced at 13.5 on-road, it will leave the Venue in dust! People will pick the car without a second thought. But that kinda pricing I believe is far from reality. But hey, I just hope that KIA proves me wrong.

[Turbolove]

Originally Posted by motorworks

So either Hyundai and Kia are seeing decent contribution from Diesel automatics in the Verna, Creta and the Seltos to make this move or it is something being done purely as a differentiator from the Venue.

I remember reading an article where Hyundai stated that diesel accounts for 50-55% sales of the new Creta. So I guess its safe to say there is definitely demand for diesel.

[Bibendum90949]

This is from the Sonet brochure. It talks about wireless phone projection. Seems like Sonet's head unit would have inbuilt Wifi unlike Seltos. If so, one can have wireless android auto in Sonet.

[sv97]

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

This is from the Sonet brochure. It talks about wireless phone projection. Seems like Sonet's head unit would have inbuilt Wifi unlike Seltos. If so, one can have wireless android auto in Sonet.

But this talks about the 8.0 inch touchscreen and I highly doubt Kia will bring in a segment first feature in lower variants and deprive the top of the line variant with 10.25 inch touchscreen of this feature.

[ATRONIX]

Originally Posted by Bibendum90949

This is from the Sonet brochure. It talks about wireless phone projection. Seems like Sonet's head unit would have inbuilt Wifi unlike Seltos. If so, one can have wireless android auto in Sonet.

Most likely a 'Screen Mirroring' function rather than 'Wireless Android Auto'.

[Bibendum90949]

Originally Posted by sv97

But this talks about the 8.0 inch touchscreen and I highly doubt Kia will bring in a segment first feature in lower variants and deprive the top of the line variant with 10.25 inch touchscreen of this feature.

I too have noticed that they've mentioned it's available only in the 8" unit. As you said, it defies logic to limit the feature to an inferior unit. Normally, it's the other way around. Guess we need to wait for the car to arrive at showrooms to find out.

Originally Posted by ATRONIX

Most likely a 'Screen Mirroring' function rather than 'Wireless Android Auto'.

Screen Mirroring also works on Wi-fi direct technology which means the car's head unit should've inbuilt Wifi. If so, wireless AA is possible too.

[84.monsoon]

I would expect that Hyundai will very shortly launch the missing engine/transmission combinations in the Venue once the Sonet has had a head start. The Venue S+ variant has been launched recently but only available with the 1.2 NA petrol engine and 5 speed MT. Features-wise, the HTK+ trim of the Sonet is an exact replica of the Venue S+ trim, except that it gets larger 16 inch steel wheels instead of the Venue's 15 inch wheels. Other than this one aspect, the S+ is identical to the HTK+.

The Venue S Diesel Manual retails for 9 lakhs ex-showroom, and with the addition of an automatic transmission and a couple of extra features in the Sonet HTK+, Diesel AT, Kia has an opportunity to price it a hair under 10 lakhs.

[Brishti]

Since I own a Seltos HTE the Kia people called me for the Sonet and the SM said an equal Sonet to my Seltos HTE "Feature-Wise" would be a HTK @ 9Lac. That means a lac's difference between the two.

EDIT: Also there are issues with the UVO system in the Seltos, I hope they have fixed it with the Sonet. My cousins Seltos GT had its system hung, UVO issues, Network issues "reestablishing" among others. We are trying to get the whole system changed in the 10k service but they have still not changed those small plastic bits near the windscreen "They leave a huge gap" in my HTE even after 10 reminders.

[motorworks]

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

I, for one, am glad Kia launched the full-fledged Diesel AT with the TC Box and the most powerful tune of this engine in the Sonet. Compact SUVs are really good for city runs, but many people today also call on their Compact SUVs also for long distance travel duties. There is a rage for road trips among today's Gen Ys and Millennials.

Im all for multiple engine and gearbox combinations so that the customer gets ample choices. And i love diesels too, and I know how good this 1.5 diesel is from Hyundai, I have the earlier 1.6 in my Creta and its really powerful. However, my point is with regard to the current fuel prices where diesel is almost at par with Petrol. And in this case there is no case for anyone to buy a diesel car by paying a 1 lakh premium over the petrol, and when you add the AT in this scene, the prices could be very unrealistic. One has to be really driving a lot in the ownership period to recover the additional 1 lakh thru fuel efficiency alone, since the fuel prices are the same and I dont think the gap between diesel and petrol is ever going to go back to the previous levels.

And I understand this in bigger Cars, like even the Creta which is much bigger and heavier than the venue and the Sonet. So they may not be good on efficiency on petrols, so diesels may make some sense, but surely not in smaller cars like the venue and the Sonet.

[7000plusrpm]

Originally Posted by motorworks

I understand this in bigger Cars, like even the Creta which is much bigger and heavier than the venue and the Sonet. So they may not be good on efficiency on petrols, so diesels may make some sense, but surely not in smaller cars like the venue and the Sonet.

Let me share some counter arguments to this view.
1. I hardly compare the petrol and diesel of the same model. I would pick a suzuki 1.2L petrol but not it's 1.3 diesel. Because, to me the Suzuki petrol and Honda too is much superior. If I have to go for a diesel, I would pick a Ford or Hyundai over a Suzuki or Honda. It's not about the car, it's about the engine to me here. I would pick the superior one.

2. As for gearbox, again, I would prefer something reliable. In our roads, a torque converter will be more reliable for city duties than a dct.

With these in mind, I would prefer a tc automatic anyday over others.

Now, my shortlisted cars are based on above criteria, hence Polo and Sonet. And I feel it's good to have options always. So, I wouldn't say it doesn't make sense to have a diesel at combo in this range. Let's just say thaks to Kia for bringing a proper automatic in this range

[84.monsoon]

Originally Posted by motorworks

And in this case there is no case for anyone to buy a diesel car by paying a 1 lakh premium over the petrol, and when you add the AT in this scene, the prices could be very unrealistic. One has to be really driving a lot in the ownership period to recover the additional 1 lakh thru fuel efficiency alone, since the fuel prices are the same and I dont think the gap between diesel and petrol is ever going to go back to the previous levels.

I have a contrarian view.

While the price differentials of around 1 lakhs between NA petrol and Turbo diesel engines was true in the old Maruti era, today, NA Petrol engines in Compact SUVs are rapidly being replaced by the small turbo petrol. CSUVs tend to be heavier by 150 -200 KG or so as compared to similar hatchbacks, so the earlier NA petrol engines from the hatch-backs struggle to deliver good power and driving experience in the CSUV. For instance, in the case of the Hyundai Venue, the 1.2NA Petrol feels very under-powered and most petrol buyers are opting for the 1.0 tGDI.

Price comparisons between the turbo-petrol and turbo-diesel is more fair, since both engines are similarly expensive to build due to various reasons such as turbocharging. They also have similar performance figures. For instance, on the Sonet, both the Turbo petrol and the Turbo diesel deliver around 115-120 PS of power while the NA petrol can only deliver around 80PS. (Another matter that the Turbo-Diesel delivers 48% more torque)

If you compare on this basis, the premium that manufacturers are asking for the turbo-diesel over the turbo-petrol is far lower than 1 Lakh. For instance, the Hyundai Venue Turbo-petrol SX Manual sells at 9.79 lakhs and the Diesel SX manual sells at 9.99 lakhs - a premium of exactly 20K. If one were to argue that this is due to the artificial 10 lakh price cap, look at another variant. The Turbo-petrol SX (O) Sport manual sells for 11.21 lakhs and the equivalent SX(O) Diesel Sport manual sells for 11.53 lakhs - a premium of 32K. At this kind of premium, the Diesel surely makes sense.

Another point to note is that the turbo-petrols are less fuel efficient, (especially in city driving conditions where the turbo is not fully active), compared to the NA petrol engines, so while the Venue Turbo-petrol may deliver only 9-10 KPL in busy city traffic, highway mileage maybe similar to NA petrol. So the fuel efficiency advantage of the Diesel over the turbo petrol may be 4-5 KMPL versus 3 KMPL between NA petrol and turbo-diesel.

So when it comes to Compact SUVs, there is a totally new paradigm, completely opposite from what the Auto press have been insisting on for several years ("Unless your mileage is high no point in buying a diesel,
blah, blah...." This old paradigm was also recently backed by a massive Ad campaign from Maruti)


Old Paradigm (Anthem song of Maruti Suzuki):
"You pay 1-1.5 lakhs more for the Diesel car. Diesel fuel is almost the same price as petrol and the diesel gives only 3 KMPL additional mileage - so you will have to drive 90 K -120 K kilometres to justify the car price difference"


New Paradigm (Particularly applicable to modern Compact SUVs):
"Don't buy NA petrol, it can't pull your Compact SUV properly. You will pay 30K more for the Turbo-diesel over the Turbo-Petrol. Diesel is more fuel efficient by 4 KMPL than the turbo petrol, so if you buy the diesel, you will recover your additional upfront cost in just 15K kilometres and you will save an additional 1.5 Lakhs in fuel costs if you drive the car for say, 100,000 KM over its life"

Maruti may be justified in singing their anthem, since today, they do not have Turbo Petrol's in Compact SUVs like Breeza or SX4. They are so opportunistic that the moment they have a good turbo-petrol engine in these cars, they will switch to the new paradigm and start singing that song.

This is the very reason I expect the Sonet to sell a good share of Diesel cars. Indian customers are smart and will not be swayed by massive advertising alone.

[jasjotbains]

Originally Posted by 84.monsoon

I have a contrarian view.

Your post makes more sense than Maruti

However, with the addition of the emission complying system (DAF or something) will the costs of maintaining a diesel mill still be justified for someone who is not running at, say, 10-15k kms per year? Again, it's a comparison between turbo petrol and turbo diesel only.