[adkrish22290]

The news about Ford exiting India is from Times of India, which is notorious for sensationalising stuff, so unless verified or reported by another reputed news source, it needs to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Having said that though, in case the news is true and Ford does plan to exit India, I would not be surprised. Unlike GM, Ford sells good cars tailored for the enthusiast in India, with the Ecosport still seeing healthy sales each month. But the fact that they have not been able to achieve huge success even 25 years after commencing operations in India due to various reasons (which I won't elaborate as previous posts have mentioned them in varying detail), combined with the Covid-19 situation and Ford's own issues worldwide, will most likely ensure that Ford leaves India, albeit at the manufacturing and sales level. I still expect Ford's IT services in India to continue.

And should Ford decide to leave India in the later half of this year, buying a Ford car will be a risk as of now. Maybe in the short term, service and spares shouldn't be an issue, but in the long term (10+ years down the line), that will become problematic. Plus, the risk of the car's value hugely depreciating and being sold as junk or scrapped will be there.

[m8002?]

Why did Ford open another plant? I dont think the Chennai plant was running at full capacity. I was not even aware that they had another plant.

[reppy]

Originally Posted by avishar

The automotive world is a very different place today..

My compliments on some crisp writing there.

As far as Ford is concerned, their SUV lineup is enviable and I hope they find their way - the Edge and Explorer would be amazing products for India!

[PYSO]

Originally Posted by anjan_c2007

To sum it up, our auto industry has been growing by leaps and bounds ever since Ford made its entry in India. We are now among the Top 5 car makers.

We may be among the top 5 car makers in volumes, but unlikely to be in the top 20 by value.

Even in volume terms - it has been nothing spectacular. If my memory is right, volumes grew by 1% or so from 2012 to 2019, before making a massive dip in 2020.

Also need to consider that whatever volumes are there are dominated by Maruti and Hyundai. Don't think that other auto markets have such dominance by top two players. If you adjust for the dominance by the top two - then for the other players, India may not be in the top 20 auto markets by volume and top 50 auto markets by value.

I can cite a simple example. I don't have the exact data - but i think the German luxury trio (BMW, Mercedes, Audi) sell as many in Vietnam as they do in India.

And that's the reality. For everyone except Maruti and Hyundai, Indian market is of the same size as Vietnamese market. A tiny market.

I know I am going to be hated for pointing this out. But it is what it is.
.

[Starfire]

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

Has Ford given you any word that they are exiting India ? How can you speculate without evidence or viewing any document ?
No company is here for charity. So if Ford is in a loss in India and decide to exit, then it is a management decision and there is nothing we can do about it. It's not the companies fault. Everything is related here. Reasons like high taxation, Covid, mental blocks with some manufacturers leading to low sales etc., are all to blame.

Whatever the reason maybe, it doesn’t change the fact that you are putting a million of your hard earned rupees in a product whose future is a big question mark. Tomorrow if you put your money in a bank and the bank goes in losses and shuts down, will you be pondering on if its the banks fault/COVID’s fault/they were not here for charity/etc or will you be worried about the fact that you lost your money?

And no Ford has not given any word on exiting India, but nor did GM give a heads up before exiting either, leaving all their new customers who just recently bought their car in dismay, hence my reply to a question asked previously by a fellow team-bhpian. Ultimately, if a company will exit or not and if the risk is worth taking is all based on the consumer’s speculation, whether you like it or not.

[TrackDay]

I am reminded of the time back in 2013 or 2014 when the EcoSport was launched. Boy ! The rush and atmosphere at the showrooms was something else. Even the sales persons had some serious attitude, since they were making hay in the sun. After all it was one of the first compact SUVs in the market and we had never seen something like that here. Sad how things have come to after 8 years. Cars like the first gen Ikon, Fiesta and EcoSport will definitely have a place in the hall of fame amongst Indian cars sold. If they exit, it will be truly a sad moment for us automobile lovers.

[AZT]

It'll be a sad day if Ford actually ends up leaving. As much as I like Tata and Mahindra, we need more options apart from Maruti and Hyundai.

A concentrated market is always bad for the consumer.

[Carpainter]

Originally Posted by abhishek46

Looks like the total installed capacity of these plants is in the region of 400000 per annum.
Ford is barely able to utilize a tenth of that!

No wonder, they are keen to leave!

I believe they have made India a very potent export hub and their total production for domestic and export market is the reason why they installed this much capacity. May be they are not able to utilise 100% of it but this alone cannot be the reason for their exit if the news is true.

However it's a big concern for any prospective buyer and anyone who knows about this will not go near a Ford showroom for a new car. This will further decline their sale and in turn dealers will be affected. Whatever they do they should take a decision fast as it'll be beneficial for the customers as well as their dealers. Personally I'd really hate to see them leave. Their customers including some of my family members will be affected badly.

PS. Merge the two threads on same topic.

[ABHI_1512]

Originally Posted by fiat_tarun

It's like a repetition of the same thing again basis a speculative media article with hardly any more value being added to warrant a separate thread.

This is exactly my thought as well, a speculative article which might or might not be true is setting the cat among the pigeons !! This thread also reminds me of the discussion we had some days back about what the OEM’s/ Dealer’s think about Team-BHP. If Ford really cared about what the members of the forum think then they would have brought their halo products here in India without any second thought long back, let alone thinking of exiting the country !!

Coming to the thread, something is not right in the Ford camp and that their factories are grossly under-utilised is a fact that we all know already. We also know that some facelifts are in the pipeline and Ford is speculated to bring new products as well. So, something doesn’t add up and that’s the real speculation amongst us actually

While obituary is always written afterwards, here we are already writing them in hordes, all on the basis of a speculative article which provides no clear answers. Having said that, the Ford management is never forthcoming on any development anyways. Also, someone mentioned that Ford should have got their marketing strategy right and advertised about their safety aspect more. When was the last time Figo/ Freestyle/ Ecosport topped the sales chart on the basis of its safety ?? Despite having competent products in the mass market segment, Ford vehicles never made a dent in the Maruti/Hyundai citadel !!

Excluding the first gen Figo and Ecosport, all the models Ford made for India tanked despite having segment first features at one point of time !! Okay, Ford made mistakes too but the customers never made a beeline for their cars sans those two models. The major mistake Ford made is not listening to their own customers and fiddling with features every now and then. Not bringing fresher products which they could have easily brought to the country is another blooper.

Also, I agree with a post above in the thread about the taxation structure being a major impediment in a country like India where the country is stuck in some time warp. It’s a point to be considered that almost every major auto player is having negligible presence in India these days. Who would have thought that Honda/Toyota would be left to sell a City/ Innova/Fortuner when they could have easily sold so many global models in India but because of the taxation structure

All in all, I hope Ford stays, that’s the only way I can hope to drive a good looking next generation Endeavour some day or even a Mondeo, if not, then our loss and I would not blame Ford for letting us down but vice versa.

[ss212]

Originally Posted by amvj

This really pains me when car manufacturers decide to leave this country. I have a soft spot for Ford. They are accessible and sensible. People like me ruin this country by buying only Maruti and Hyundai.

I can completely understand this sentiment. Ford was an extremely accessible brand that offered FTD cars. From what I hear, they were cheap to maintain too.

Anyone who has driven the Ford Figo diesel (1st and 2nd gen) would know. In fact, I'd argue that while VAG cars are FTD, they lack the direct connectedness through the steering wheel that Ford has.

[YD14]

Maybe it is just speculation, but I feel like the scale is tipping towards Ford leaving India.

Ford had injected considerable amounts of money recently into their Brazillian operations and the costs of leaving weren't low either, but the Ford Motor company's stock continued to rise after the announcement of the exit. So this makes one part of the decision easier for Ford management that Wall Street certainly does not see these drastic moves as a bad thing. It is also the opinion of many industry experts in the US that American automakers cannot get a hold of Asian or Indian buyers' pulse (I guess so after seeing all the videos on youtube from American business news channels). So if Ford announces more investments into India it may affect their stock prices negatively.

Also, I cannot imagine Ford spending dollars in developing India-specific products after suffering a setback with the Figo twins. Not just India, I feel like Ford is giving up on emerging markets or developing countries in general. Even in Southeast Asian countries like the Philippines, Ford only imports vehicles. In Thailand Ford operates a plant in partnership with Mazda which produces more Mazda vehicles than Ford vehicles. The huge push in Europe, and to some extent in America, towards EVs doesn't help the case of developing ICE cars either.

[kiku007]

Originally Posted by Stribog

It massified the high end markets, does this make sense?

I hear you. I would say that Ford made Euro-engineered FTD cars accessible to consumers in the non-luxury segments. It was the their USP.

The article in question doesn't site any source but that's fine because any one can make this guess. Also 'operations' is a big word in this context. Ford will of course not wrap-up their IT or back-office operations. So the statement, "Ford is committed to India" will always remain true based on that technicality.

My bet will continue to be on Ford having a much smaller but niche-player role in India selling premium SUVs. Just get out of the segments Maruti-Suzuki, Hyundai and KIA dominate, and focus on low-volume but big-$ segments.

[hserus]

Originally Posted by kiku007

My bet will continue to be on Ford having a much smaller but niche-player role in India selling premium SUVs. Just get out of the segments Maruti-Suzuki, Hyundai and KIA dominate, and focus on low-volume but big-$ segments.

Most of Ford's manufacturing in India is for their export market - Ecosports sold worldwide for example are made in India. Production for the local market is a small fraction of their plant capacity.

[GTO]

Guys, for added perspective, just sharing two of my earlier posts on the topic:

Originally Posted by GTO

I put the odds of Ford staying in India vs exiting India at 50 : 50. On the one hand, they have been around for 2+ decades, have good products, a better reputation than 10 years ago and SUVs / Crossovers that are profitable + selling well (EcoSport, Endeavour).

On the other hand, Ford USA has been ruthless with getting rid of money-losing products & markets. In what was a controversial move, they got rid of smaller cars in the USA, choosing to sell only SUVs, Trucks, Crossovers & the Mustang. Ford also announced that it will stop making cars in Brazil. Ford's American CEO would be fed up of Ford India. In the 1-hour / month that he would spend looking at Ford India's reports, he would only see a poor ROI, a divorce (Ford-Mahindra) and hyper-aggressive competition from the entrenched players like Maruti & Hyundai.

Take a look at our sales charts and you will see that the only way to survive or grow in India is "new products". Maruti, Hyundai, Tata, Kia, Renault etc. are only growing stronger because of fresh new cars. Ford India needs a minimum investment of 10000 - 20000 crore in the coming years for its new cars. Will Ford USA invest? I don't think so. Let's not forget additional investments needed in the 5 - 10 year timeline for a shift to EVs.

If Ford India does stick around, it will only be with minimal new investments and selling cars picked from its global portfolio. Like Ford USA, the product portfolio will be trimmed and they will only be a seller of a fewer number of products with fatter margins (read = SUVs & Crossovers). No chance of any mass market aspirations. If Ford is still in India in 2030, it will be a selling a smaller range of cars in segments that aren't brutal. I don't see any hatchback or compact sedan in Ford India's future. The company - if it maintains a presence here - will be massively downsized.

Originally Posted by GTO

Sort of worried, guys. I'll put Ford's chances of exiting India at 50 - 60%. Don't think they will do a complete exit like GM because Ford has earlier subtly indicated (via their Mahindra JV) that they would like to maintain a foot in the door (keeping future Indian prospects in mind).

But Ford HQ @ USA has demonstrated that it will not tolerate any money-sucking businesses. Heck, they completely abandoned the hatchback & sedan market there, to focus only on profitable SUVs, trucks, crossovers & the Mustang. Ford has already exited markets where it had no future.

The company has been around for 20+ years in India and has little to show for it. Competition is also getting fiercer with new entrants like Kia, resurgent players like Tata and stalwarts like Maruti + Hyundai fighting tooth & nail for every sale.

Over & above, the future of electric cars requires huge investments. Can Ford ask USA HQ for big investments after losing money for a majority of its time in India? No way.

Originally Posted by ask_017

Tweeted my frustrations to Ford India after seeing the news today. And they have responded, but still no clarity.

Smartly worded. In my opinion, it's more of a statement saying "don't worry, you will have parts support if we leave" rather than anything else. Speaking of which, the other American company to leave appears to have handled part support pretty well - link to thread (Chevrolet owners, how is the spare parts availability & service since GM left India?).

Originally Posted by CEF_Beasts

Ford is saying they are committed to India and not leaving

1 year before GM left, Mary Barra came to India, held a big press conference and blatantly lied that GM is committed to India, even announcing a massive $1 billion investment. If the CEO can lie like this, what is to say of an email or press release? No company will announce in advance that they are leaving = that's a surefire way to kill their car sales overnight. It will always be an abrupt, last minute midnight announcement once all other preparations have been made.

[Gaur]

Originally Posted by PYSO

Also need to consider that whatever volumes are there are dominated by Maruti and Hyundai. Don't think that other auto markets have such dominance by top two players. If you adjust for the dominance by the top two - then for the other players, India may not be in the top 20 auto markets by volume and top 50 auto markets by value.

.

Absolutely true.

some time back i along with a friend were discussing on this Duopoly (Maruti+Hyundai) in India and realized there is no major auto market in the world with such a bias, other companies are just left with a peanut share to compete in, making it very difficult to succeed.

TATA-Mahindra exist because they have no other option.
Kia, thanks to Hyundai could piggyback on to it, not needed anymore, i think they are self sustainable now.
Toyota, as long as they have Innova,Fortuner no need to worry.
Renault/Nissan, they exist mainly because of the export potential from the Indian factories.


Others like Skoda/FCA/PSA/MG/Ford etc.. just hanging around as long as operations are sustainable, never know who might give up first...