[sid3091]

For people who want an AWD/4x4, what choice do we have? The Mahindra thar isn't a viable option as a family car.

[syednizamudeen]

I'll keep things simple. I'd choose diesel powertrain over petrol any day for my driving requirements. I'm not a hardcore geeky enthusiast or keeps the car in garage collecting dust.

I live in a town and drive at least 50 km a day daily for work and do occasional family trips.

Considering the Torquey nature of the diesel and outstandingly fuel efficient when compared to its petrol counterpart. If one lives in a town like I do, where there's no serious bumper to bumper traffic or buying a car to cruise in the highways particularly or taking up to the hill station, the diesel option is the best choice hands down if one's goal is to munch kilo meters efficiently and without flooring the gas pedal.

if one buys a car to go to work or to shop mostly and drive for fun, Petrol is the one to choose.

I'll still buy the diesel as my everyday goto car or a long distance car. And use petrol as secondary car.

Choosing a diesel car shouldn't be very hard these days as the choices gets fewer and fewer and it saddens me like anything.

My 2016 Honda Jazz i-dtec comfortably returns 19-21 kmpl if ridden in mixed conditions and also ridden enthusiastically when I'm alone. (1.15Lakh Km on the odo).

Our 2017 Suzuki Baleno is smooth. But, it doesn't feel punchy or planted to drive on the highway and returns 14-17 kmpl in the above mentioned conditions. (19,000 Km on the odo)

Our 2021 Hyundai i20 Turbo DCT petrol gave 14 kmpl once we took out for a 1200 km round trip in 2 days. That too, My uncle didn't exceed 110 Kmph and the trip was 95% on the highways. ( 150 km on the odo when we took it for the trip).

Even though I love how the new 3 cylinder Skoda Rapid or the VW Vento drives, a Diesel Creta or a Seltos seems to be my next practical choice as it ticks more boxes for me than the petrol rivals.

I know Diesels would die sometimes soon. But, everyone dies some day.

[achyutaghosh]

Originally Posted by sid3091

For people who want an AWD/4x4, what choice do we have? The Mahindra thar isn't a viable option as a family car.

Exactly. No options, other that Thar, which you pointed out, and the yet to be launched XUV700 and Skoda Kodiaq- both might get AWD. The Tiguan Allspace has AWD too. However, AWD is not 4WD.

5 door Thar will have its USP, but even that may not be exactly family friendly

I was speaking to an offroad tour organizer yesterday, and he offered 4WD vehicles as part of the package. Guess may have to live with that model of 3rd party 4WD especially if you are in NCR.

[AirbusCapt]

Originally Posted by ashis89

Gadkari is known to make several 'visionary' statements from time to time. Most of them are impractical and don't get implemented. Remember his recent statement asking manufacturers to install 6 airbags in all their cars?

And they don't need to ban private diesel cars to introduce subsidy (unlikely, IMO) for some sectors. They have DBT in place already.

Do remember, if they go as per your idea, they would have to scrap all existing diesel cars. Another impossible idea, IMO.

Let me clarify my point. The government will not subsidise diesel. They will merely reduce the obscene tax rate they currently have. If diesel is 75/80 rs/liter versus 110 for petrol, just before elections, they make the farmers and truckers happy.

They cannot and will not ban private diesel ownership, however if no new diesel cars are sold by 2024, people will not jump into the diesel bandwagon when fuel prices are lowered. Regarding the used diesel cars it's easy to put them off the roads just like Delhi does (10 year rule etc) post winning 2024.

[Nitish.arnold]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

free-revving character

Don't agree to this pointer,
Petrol engines are free revving, not diesels.
------------------------------------
My vote is on: I will continue using my diesel Nissan Terrano till the end of it's legal life just because how good a workhorse it is.
After that, I will be most probably shifting to EVs.

According to my rough calculations,
there is a 5X difference between my annual fuel & maintenance of diesel car vs what the EV will cost me.

[kartavya]

Dont have any options for a highway car (which will be my next buy) except for diesel. With the running it will be doing I cannot compromise to single digit FE in petrol. The torque helps as well mind you.

[Pam81]

My Diesel car is having validity until 2027. I guess, I will be using till then while maintaining it in good shape. Sheer torquey characteristics are excellent to drive but for sure it emits a whole lot into environment. BS VI / EU VI Diesels are much better with tail-pipe emissions treated / absorbed in variety of after-treatment devices (LNT, DPF etc....). Pre-BS VI Diesels still emit smoke under hard acceleration does not matter how nice the engine is. It's a virtue of Diesel's combustion system, nothing can be done about that.

I would choose Turbo-charged Petrols (Direct Injected ones) and some form of Hybrids. I am not so sure of pure EVs if I will like their characteristics.

I had Ford Fusion Hybrid rented for 2 weeks during an work assignment in Michigan (US) and I simply loved the way that Hybrid works. It was phenomenal! Engine comes to life if I am aggressive at the gas pedal or else at the time of charge gets depleted. In any case, it was super friendly in city drives and in long drives, during coasting it used to shut-off engine and regenerates to charge the battery and it automatically brings the engine back again once it sees the equilibrium tilts between driver requirements and actual power delivery.

I agree the cost of having both ICE & EV powertrain in hybrid might not make sense in India especially the strong hybrids (capable of electric only driving up to certain speed & range). Time will tell...!

Meanwhile, in a recent technical conference, JCB announced that they have succeeded with Hydrogen Combustion with zero emission It might find in-roads into regular automotive scene in coming decade. https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...led-combustion

So, tomorrow's powertrain will have a diverse range, mostly complying to strong environmental regulations. We know we are weak in enforcements but rationalization with digital tech might solve that escape routes.

[OffRoadFun]

Originally Posted by Nitish.arnold

Don't agree to this pointer,
Petrol engines are free revving, not diesels.

Are petrols are free revving? Yes.
Does it matter to most of car owners? NO
It matters ONLY if you are into professional racing of at least looking for AMG or M/ RS models from Merc/BMW/Audi.
For others, as much as one would like to believe, it does not matter.

Yes, petrol engines have higher redline at around 6000RPM whereas diesels peak at 4500. This does not matter as there is a transmission between the engine and the wheels which balances RPM/Torque vs speed.

Here is a comparison of BMW 330d vs 330i, almost same power pasted again. 330d has 265HP vs 330i's 258HP.
Despite having similar powers, the transmission ensures 330d is around 9% faster despite a LOWER redline compared to 330i. And 330d consumes lesser fuel still. Of course the 330d engine will be around 100kg HEAVIER than 330i's, yet lower end torque ensures it beats 330i.



Yes, it can't be scaled to racing vehicles as diesel overhead in terms of reliability will be too much but for mere mortals, petrol's revving engine being superior is a myth.

And it does not stop here. BMW makes BMW X5 M50d which has just a 3.0L with 0-100 of 5.2s, Audi makes SQ7 with 4.0 V8 with 0-100 in 4.8s.

For all non-racers, these are more than enough courtesy of mature transmissions like DSG and ZF. Petrol engines now-a-days have no free revving advantage, except may be for sound.

[rednikhil]

Show me a car that has its petrol engine match the diesel engine in both the performance and fuel-efficiency parameters and I would gladly buy it over the diesel!
The Otto Cycle can NOT be optimized beyond a threshold; fundamentals of science don't permit it.

I think the answer is petrol-hybrid cars; there is a big gap in that space. Those need to be produced by more manufacturers on a mass scale, not just in the niche segment. I mean a proper hybrid, not the mild-hybrid gibberish but the electric-motor and petrol-engine hybrid stuff. There's definitely a scope for more R&D there.

[kaustubhp]

If I were not in NCR, Diesel would be my top preference. Like Shreyans said, your daily driver has to be sasta sundar tikau. I inquired recently at nearby Hyundai ASS, the difference of service cost of Hyundai Creta Petrol v. Diesel. He estimated a difference of Rs. 4000 per service, which is not substantial. The price of Petrol and Diesel are at a margin of Rs. 10 unlike Rs. 30-40 before, but that should not be a consideration given the steep rise every month. If the cost of fuel is high, one should definitely consider a vehicle which has low running cost per KM i.e., Diesel.

Having said that, if I were to buy a car in NCR, it has to be anything but Diesel because the resale value will fall down sharply after 6 years, which is the minimum I would want to keep the car. Selling the car outsider NCR would, I am told, not yield decent value. I could be wrong and hope so too. I spoke to a friend recently who bought Compass Petrol in NCR about his experience. He said logically, buying Petrol made more sense but in hindsight, buying a car keeping resale value in mind and not running cost and driving pleasure was not a great decision. It is a conundrum indeed. Some great observations in this thread.

[motor-saint]

This is exactly the discussion that I wanted to read after reading a couple of news articles recently about the future of diesel in India.

I've driven a Fiat Punto diesel for 9 years now (without any complaints about it's diesel engine), and for reasons relating to available boot space and leg room for long drives, I'm considering buying an SUV.

I'm not very specific about the kind of fuel the new car should burn, however for one of the options that I'm seriously considering (Jeep Compass), diesel is the best option. That vehicle comes at a premium pricing, and I'm looking for a car option for at least 10-12 years.

I would love to own an electric. But the highway charging infra is not ready in India (and I don't see it getting fully ready for a good 5 years).

I also considered hybrid engines. But there are very few hybrids in the market today.

Which is why some diesel vehicles are still a good option for new buyers. I will still consider a diesel engine car. Although, considering the future trends, I'm confused about what is the right amount to spend on it.

[tharian]

I have a Ford Aspire TDCi since the last 4 years. I was never interested in picking up a diesel however because of the cars I had shortlisted and the budget I had, it had to be the Aspire diesel since the petrol counterpart was nothing great and I had the same engine on my previous car which was a Ford Figo.

It took me a while to get adjusted to driving a diesel coming from a petrol, however over time and now I just drive the torque wave. My biggest concern of a diesel was the NVH especially as the engine gets old. Thankfully on my car, I managed to keep that in check to an extent by using fuel and oil additives. I don't get mind blowing fuel efficiency either from a diesel either, but I am fine with that too.

Having said that, my next car will be a petrol unless it is an SUV. It is not that I don't enjoy driving a diesel, they are both equally enjoyable in their own ways.

[arindambasu13]

It is now mostly a question of a turbo diesel versus a turbo petrol, when it comes to performance and fun to drive. With that in mind, I would any day take a refined turbo diesel with the superior efficiency and to some extent that torque wave in mind. Turbo petrols' fuel efficiency is absolutely terrible in today's day and age when driven enthusiastically, but not so in the case of turbo diesels. I would gladly choose a competent diesel engine especially when it comes to SUVs or bigger cars.

So yes, most of the recent hoopla about diesels getting defunct is not true in the Indian context, and a good diesel engine will definitely compete with and often outshine the corresponding turbo petrol engines on overall considerations. I picked up a Ford TDCI BS-6 Ecosport last year, at the time when diesels were not high on favour. To me, the choice was absolutely crystal clear. The diesel was a superior engine meeting all my power and fun to drive parameters, and so went for it eyes closed. No regrets whatsoever!

[sam264_2000]

Most of the comments on this topic are around how fun to drive the diesel engines are and about how good the fuel efficiency is. These are usually a given for diesels. I think this thread also touches another aspect - how much of a financial sense does it make to buy a diesel car now or in the next 2 years and what happens to your car valuations, say post 2025, when some of the popular manufacturers stop developing Diesel engines (ex: Hyundai CRDI)? Wouldn't the value of the diesel car we buy now be insignificant post that? What are your views on resale of passenger diesel cars, say 10-15 years down the line? My guess is it would depend on how fast the EV ecosystem develops. Availability of diesel fuel may not be much of an issue. I would like to know what you all think.

[Azharumon]

I am always a diesel head and will buy it as long as it is available. Diesels will be here for a good 10 years is my guess.