[adityadeva]

Originally Posted by GTO

Will buy turbo-diesels till as long as they are on sale (easily another 15 - 20 years).

I think this expectation is too far fetched.

I personally think that fuel costs are never going to go down. So fuel costs alone would make diesels unaffordable in about 3 to 5 years time.

Government will definitely tax the fast charging outlets but still it would take atleast 7 to 10 years or even more for them to look like the daylight robbery they currently are carrying out on Fossil fuels.

I don't have the slightest complaint on rising fuel prices to be very honest, because as a race of homo sapiens, we already have caused a huge damage to environment and don't even have a second thought of regret about it. It really doesn't bother us even in our remotest dreams what kind of a planet we would hand over to next generation when we leave. But collectively we are disintegrating it.

So philosophy aside and 'practical approach' and common sense working out, tells me that energy density of the battery pack is going up on a regular basis to the point that, something like Moore's law for semiconductor might start applying to energy density vs charging time of EV battery.

So in case anyone who has no urgent compulsion should wait for the ev development. I have a gut feeling that the change might be quite a quick one around the corner once this semiconductor shortage supply chain is sorted out. Probably by 2nd half of 2022 onwards.

My expectation is that by 2027 ICE cars would get ditched if there's no huge natural calamity or pandemic. Corona itself has put back the ev industry by a good 5 years.

[klgiridhar]

Until recently, I did not have much experience driving diesel-engined cars over a long distance. During a recent trip to Chikmagalur with childhood friends, we hired an Innova and driving it for a few hundred kilometres, including the ghat sections of Kudremukh made me understand why people love them and talk a lot about the torque. The big diesel required very few downshifts, had a lot of torque at my disposal, was not struggling while climbing the ghats whatsoever whereas the other car which we had, the naturally aspirated Baleno felt dead in its 3rd gear and struggled to pull with 5 people on board in the ghats.

Haven't driven a turbo petrol car yet but if I have to choose between a diesel and a turbo petrol car, would go with the diesel eyes closed as currently I do not find the price difference that significant between the two as well as the excellent fuel efficiency of diesel engines is the icing on the cake. Also, I do not like people and the government alienating diesel engines to be highly polluting, especially after the BS6 norms kicked in.

In addition, I am quite surprised few people are of the opinion that EVs are coming and diesels don't make much sense in another 4 years like around 2025 or so. Yes, EVs may become a good proposition by then as city cars but not as your only car. The primary reasons being the poor range offered currently as well as lack of charging infrastructure. I see no push from the government in setting up charging stations. They also backtracked on the initial deadline of having only EV sales by 2030. All they did was just reduce the GST to 5%, some early bird incentives and dusted off their hands. What if someone wants to go from Chennai to Vizag? Or do a 1000Km trip in a day? In the last three years, I have seen only three charging stations (two points at each station) come up in the above route and two of them are not being shown as available. So, until the EVs offer a real-world range of 750-1000Km on a single charge, being relatively affordable and our country having good and fast DC charging infrastructure, I will not be considering them to be my only option. I do not see such an affordable mass-market EV coming anytime soon, nor the charging infrastructure flourishing like petrol stations.

Maybe, with upcoming emission norms, the gap between diesel and petrol vehicle prices may widen even more that the additional cost requires very high mileage (more than a lakh kilometers) to recover in fuel savings, then I will go for the turbo petrols. But, in case the cars are having significant performance differences between petrol and diesel options, say in cars like Altroz which GTO and some other BHPians have mentioned, no matter the price difference, it will be a heart over head decision and will get the diesel option if I like the car very much. Diesels are not going anywhere, anytime soon. They are here to stay for another 15 to 20 years minimum. So, will consider and buy them as long as they are available. Maybe after BS7 emission norms, they may not make sense under 20 lakhs due to higher costs and turbo petrols becoming more reliable and efficient by then or we have availability of good plug-in hybrids, but completely makes sense in bigger sedans, crossovers, MUVs and 4x4s. And those small sections of people who plan on doing a road trip around the world sometime in the next 20 years, your only option would be a diesel 4x4 as there are many countries much behind India in terms of electricity availability

[shancz]

I would say not prudent.
Apart with the DPF issues being reported the economics are playing their part too.
Of course MSIL/VW/Skoda stopping their diesels is contributing too mainly MSIL.

This is an interesting read, data is quite surprising, even I was surprised but the market speaks decisively.
Credits to Providers : ThePrint : Diesel numbers

[Goandiaries]

Originally Posted by clevermax

BS6 norms make me rethink - I will not buy another (new) diesel again. I do not want to struggle with any DPF clogging issues or adblue.

For exactly the DPF issues I would be thinking twice before getting another Diesel.

[z_3en]

Since the ban on vehicles older than 10 yrs in some places and fitness criteria in most. Is buying a a deisel vehicle older than 10 years still a good choice to make. My love for off-roaders is what got me to think of this questions. I have been planning on purchasing a fortuner MT mainly for its 4x4 capabilities (4x2 out the window). Since the recent price hike not only has the price of a new unit gone up but even the second hand market has more to cash on now. Not all of this hike is due to Covid-19 pandemic, but that for some other day. Since this purchase is mainly adventure driven I really wanted a vehicle that can take a beating. Fortuner being top in the list since I have to travel abroad for months together leaving the vehicle parked. So it is logical to own something that has low maintenance and can stand firm with time. All of these conditions are really pushing me towards the good old 4x4 MT first gen fortuner (for some reason they refer to it as Ironman fortuner ). Not only will it be waayy under budget but will also give me room to experiment with hell of offroading mods.



The Problem
Since I reside in north India (LKO) and just cannot avoid going to delhi/NCR will it be right to purchase something so old and awesome but a red flag due emission norms?

[ptaneja]

Guys a question.

Thinking of buying Kia Carens, and there is no price difference between Prestige Plus Petrol and Diesel.
With price being same, which one would you recommend in NCR ?
( I am planning to relocate to outside NCR after 5 years)

My doubt is , is there any remote news or rumour of govt planning to implement NGT ban outside of NCR too ?

[ruzbehxyz]

We all know that the future is EVs. However, we need to fill in the gap between our current vehicle(s) and the new generation EV which we may buy when it's mandatory or when EVs dominate the sales. During this transition period, you can retain your existing diesel car, because both petrol and diesel will be outnumbered. Besides Delhi, the rest of India has the advantage of retaining their diesel vehicles for 15 years. Renewing the RC after 15 years can be an issue in the near future, but you would have used your vehicle for long enough to sell.

[ptaneja]

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

. Besides Delhi, the rest of India has the advantage of retaining their diesel vehicles till 15 years.

Missing my question!
I have sold off my diesel vehicle and planning on buying a new one. I want to run it for 10 years and then sell it when it still has 5 years left.
Current generation of EV at 16L with 200km range is not worthy.

My question is, if anyone has read or heard about pan India ban on diesel vehicle post 10 years similar to what NGT did in Delhi?

[ruzbehxyz]

Originally Posted by ptaneja

Missing my question!

Although my reply is after your post, I have not answered your question. My post is just my thoughts in context of the thread.

My question is, if anyone has read or heard about pan India ban on diesel vehicle post 10 years similar to what NGT did in Delhi?

Exactly. That is what I said generally. There is no ban on diesel vehicles post 10 years, except in Delhi. Besides till you buy an EV, you can definitely buy a diesel vehicle now. However please note the resale will be peanuts, which will not matter if you have used the car well.

Mechanically you can have DPF issues like many BSVI Diesel cars have. On the other hand you can also look at a BSIV used diesel.

[ptaneja]

Originally Posted by ruzbehxyz

Exactly. That is what I said generally. There is no ban on diesel vehicles post 10 years, except in Delhi.

Came across the attached file while searching. This is an old 2019 draft...
I am concerned specifically about HP where I will be relocating.

What if out of nowhere NGT decides that Delhi pilot project was successful, let's put it on whole of India.

[Mafia]

Originally Posted by ptaneja

What if out of nowhere NGT decides that Delhi pilot project was successful, let's put it on whole of India.

Implementation across all metro cities is on the cards in the next couple of years.

In case they implement the 10-year ban, the sale and especially the resale of diesel will take a big hit. A nationwide implementation may not be needed as most models sell in high numbers in metros. The new development is on hold in most cases. Metro level implementation will kill diesel cars in India

[ptaneja]

Originally Posted by Mafia

Implementation across all metro cities is on the cards in the next couple of years.

Exactly my point.
I have just sold off my perfectly running Ciaz as it was reaching 7 year mark. Can't keep on doing it !

I'll better stick to Petrol for now. Even though with my running it would be costly, but atleast I will be able to hold on to it for 10 years.

Do you have any link,info etc on implementation plans for metro? I was searching this but couldn't find anything concrete.

[sagarpadaki]

Originally Posted by ptaneja

Exactly my point.
I have just sold off my perfectly running Ciaz as it was reaching 7 year mark. Can't keep on doing it !

I'll better stick to Petrol for now. Even though with my running it would be costly, but atleast I will be able to hold on to it for 10 years.

Do you have any link,info etc on implementation plans for metro? I was searching this but couldn't find anything concrete.

If you are holding for 10 years then diesel would be a better bet.

In my view, the 10 Year diesel ban will not be implemented pan India. It was implemented in Delhi NCR due to the high pollution.

There is no publicly available info on the scrappage policy being applied pan India.

[gurminder_81]

I already committed myself to pick up a diesel automatic purely for my highway drives: booked XUV 700 D AX7L AWD. Delivery will be in early 2023 or late 2022.

My current car: Honda Amaze SX is again a diesel: aged 8+ yrs with 1 lac+ on the odo will continue to serve the city duties for at least another 2-3 years or till the time it lasts.

Apart from the above diesels, my next purchases will surely be electric:

1. When the time comes to replace the ageing Honda, I will definitely look for an EV. Hopefully, we will have a good solid EVs under 10L with a reasonable city range. I plan to charge it at Office
   
2. When the time comes to replace XUV700 (at least 2032 and beyond), I will again look for an EV having AWD capabilities. Hopefully, we will have good options with long range EVs, with fast charging batteries, charging facilities spread across the length and breadth of our country.

I stay in an apartment flat right now, but when I retire (12-15 yrs from now), I will be moving to an independent house and also set up a solar power facility to charge the vehicles and use it for my house.

[Mafia]

Originally Posted by ptaneja

Do you have any link,info etc on implementation plans for metro? I was searching this but couldn't find anything concrete.

Major reforms are implemented small. And India has a large number of highly polluted cities. IT only makes sense to expand the policy if there is any benefit to be had in reducing pollution.

I don't have any info or link. It is a guess.