[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by mansidea

The title says : " India's Largest selling SUV: Mahindra Bolero "

and all we can see in it is just an " S " & fight for it - even getting on to personal attacks.

Nope the fight wasnt for that. Somefolks did get personal, but thats exepected on the forum. No hard feelings.

The objective of this thread as i understand is, Bolero is top on the sales chart & a discussion on its success story.

Yes partially correct, also to find out what the owners think of this very unassuming and simple(old tech) automobile that is giving good competition in these "modern" time automobiles.

IMHO, It's selling good numbers because:

• Its closer to the normal customer's (in its class) expectation & not because its perfect. A normal customer is not a bhpian or a hard core automobile enthusiast. He is looking for utility & VFM.

I am a bhpian(it says under my name). Whats a hard core automobile enthusiast? People who dont buy Bolero's? You will be surprised by the amount of knowledge that Bolero owners have about their cars and others too. Please dont jump to conclusions and mark out Bolero owners as not knowing much about automobiles.

Who dosent look for Utility and VFM - if that was not the case we could all have been buying San Storm's with turbo charged and supercharged engines with Air cooled intakes and what not. For your knowledge a person who buys a Merc S Class even looks for VFM and Utility.

Its projected image by the marketing team.

No not really, they do position it for urban folks too. They are not looking only at selling it to village folks. Point you should remember: They made it a BSIII if not they could have sold it in BSII avtaar to the rural folks and not bothered of selling in urban circles.

So you see your analysis still needs a a bit of thought.

Anyways what Bolero model do you have?

[shankar.balan]

Yup Spitfire is correct that Mahindra positioned the Bolero BS2 as a Rural Segment People Mover/ Workhorse and they introduced the BS3 version targeted at the Urban Yuppie/family/SUV/MUV enthusiast who had enough money to plump for a good sedan but preferred a tougher and more "off road" "off the beaten track" type of vehicle.
Indeed on the Bolero website also, the vehicle is described as a Mid Size SUV. Clearly the usage of internet / viewing of auto websites etc is larger in the Urban Milieu and thus, this strategy of theirs seems to be borne out.

[aadix]

btw, whats wrong even if the bolero is positioned as a suv?

anyways coming back to the main topic, inspite of all the pros and cons going on in this thread, there must be something to the bolero, cos from what i see here in andhra pradesh. every contractor right from the big epc ones to the small timers have boleros. that too mostly the new slx"s in white colour.

i guess in india as long as any vehicle is reliable, easy to maintain and is rugged, it will sell.. let is be positioned as a muv, suv or just a uv.

its the capability of the vehicle and not what it is termed as, matters i guess.

[shankar.balan]

well said aadix
and the Bolero does get the job done... admirably I might add.
no wonder it is a best seller

theres an old saying - "if it aint broken dont fix it" - I guess M&M are following that dictum atleast with the Bolero!!

Originally Posted by aadix

btw, whats wrong even if the bolero is positioned as a suv?

anyways coming back to the main topic, inspite of all the pros and cons going on in this thread, there must be something to the bolero, cos from what i see here in andhra pradesh.. every contractor right from the big epc ones to the small timers have boleros.. that too mostly the new slx"s in white colour.

i guess in india as long as any vehicle is reliable, easy to maintain and is rugged, it will sell.. let is be positioned as a muv, suv or just a uv.

its the capability of the vehicle and not what it is termed as, matters i guess.

[mansidea]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

[/list]I am a bhpian(it says under my name). Whats a hard core automobile enthusiast? People who dont buy Bolero's? You will be surprised by the amount of knowledge that Bolero owners have about their cars and others too. Please dont jump to conclusions and mark out Bolero owners as not knowing much about automobiles.

Relax Spitfire. Why jump into conclusions? I said a normal customer (A normal Automobile Customer - to be specific) not a bolero customer. For eg. ME. i have little knowledge on automobiles but a hard core enthusiast of anything on wheels & i buy what i likes. All bolero owners i know have thorough knowledge about automobiles but thats not ALL.

Originally Posted by Spitfire

No not really, they do position it for urban folks too. They are not looking only at selling it to village folks. Point you should remember: They made it a BSIII if not they could have sold it in BSII avtaar to the rural folks and not bothered of selling in urban circles.

Exactly my point. Who said its for village folks? Re look at the bolero ads. They do position it as an urban vehicle.

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Anyways what Bolero model do you have?

Do i need to buy every car to say something about it?

But in this case as i mentioned in my earlier post, My company owns 18 of it & i am responsible for 3 . Each one of it runs 24X7 with two drivers.

I think we are not value adding to the topic with this discussion. My intention was just to focus attention towards the positive side of Bolero & not fight over M or S.

Thanks.

[Spitfire]

@mansidea: My bad :( sorry to jump like that. What with folks comparing it to a bullock cart and what not.

Regarding ownership of a car and writing about it. You wont see me having length discussions on threads that are for other makes and brands. I wont go evaluating a Honda City or any other vehicle i have no experience on. I prefer to keep quite and let the owners speak. Its logical isnt it. But when someone who has never used a Bolero or for that matter any other car comes up with preconceived notions about it, it really dosent go well with me.

[shankar.balan]

I agree with Spitfire's below comment completely.
No point talking about things one doesnt know about.
Better to stick to discussing and if necessary defending things that one DOES know about.
cheers

Originally Posted by Spitfire

@mansidea: Regarding ownership of a car and writing about it. You wont see me having length discussions on threads that are for other makes and brands. I wont go evaluating a Honda City or any other vehicle i have no experience on. I prefer to keep quite and let the owners speak. Its logical isnt it. But when someone who has never used a Bolero or for that matter any other car comes up with preconceived notions about it, it really dosent go well with me.

[alpha1]

Mwahahahahaa!
this thread just brings up the issue of "snob" appeal that ppl have for their preferred vehicles (which they may or may not be owning).

Lets face is: those who hate calling Bolero an SUV is simply because of its "low" price, and low snob appeal in public.

If performance is your criteria, then even Safaris and Scorpios would fail.
And if utility is your criteria then CRV and its ilk are miles away.

So what other reason can it be for you not calling Bolero an SUV, if its not what I just said.
?

[shankar.balan]

I love that wicked laugh!
yes, whats in a name anyway?

Originally Posted by alpha1

Mwahahahahaa!
this thread just brings up the issue of "snob" appeal that ppl have for their preferred vehicles (which they may or may not be owning).

Lets face is: those who hate calling Bolero an SUV is simply because of its "low" price, and low snob appeal in public.

If performance is your criteria, then even Safaris and Scorpios would fail.
And if utility is your criteria then CRV and its ilk are miles away.

So what other reason can it be for you not calling Bolero an SUV, if its not what I just said.
?

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by alpha1

So what other reason can it be for you not calling Bolero an SUV, if its not what I just said.
?

Welcome to the owners who dont really go after snob value. See you learned something new.

Why we dont like calling the Bolero an SUV is because of the term itself. Sports Utility Vehicle what is it supposed to mean anyways?

Sports Utility Vehicle: A sport utility vehicle, or SUV is a generic specification for a passenger vehicle which combines the towing capacity of a pickup truck with the passenger-carrying space of a minivan or station wagon together with on or off road ability. Taken from the Wiki.

So its a mix of a station wagon, a tow truck, and has 4WD. I think thats a very confused vehicle in itself. I am not sure who came up with this SUV naming but to me it sounds like some manufacturers marketing ploy to rope in "snobbish" folks(customers) who dont like to get their feet dirty and prefer to be pseudo tough guys(thats the closet i get to being what is a snob in regards to vehicles)by driving their leather clad off road vehicles on smooth tarmac.

There are exceptions to the above(check the 4x4 section).

[Car-Agey]

You are right spitfire. After reading your post I remembered reading an ad in the Time magzine in our college library some two decades back. It was an ad for a pickup truck. It said some thing like "A truck you would love to take to a baseball game or movie theater on a holiday and show off at the club in the evening after using it in the farm".

I think thats what they called the SUV, probably targated at people who could not afford a car along with the pickup and felt shy to be seen in pickup at clubs or movie theaters.

So they called it the "Sports Utility Vehical" making their truck more attarctive to such buyers.

[shankar.balan]

What about this Spitfire?

As I told you, I had written to Topgear and Auto Car in 2005 in defence of the Bolero, after I had bought my Bolero and did some slush d (r) iving in Coorg and Ooty and so on!

Very simple - with that nice torquey XD3PU engine chugging peacefully along in 1st gear,its high ground clearance and general tank type build etc the Bolero ploughed on, true to its "never say die" spirit.

However, if someone were to have taken a CRV or something of that kind to that same terrain, regardless of its 4WD and so on, I am pretty sure it would have taken one look at the mud, rocks, stones, logs and the thick icing/ garnish of slush, turned up its undoubtedly attractive nose, dug its heels in and refused to get its hooves dirty. If pushed in, Im sure it would have whinnied and shied and then probably died of fright/ heart failure!

But then there is also another statistic which clearly tell us the majority of those people who buy these expensive Urban SUVs/ Soft Roaders and even Land Rovers etc, simply never take them off the road, ever.

So such snob value and snobbery as may be present, can be reserved by those self same people, for their garden parties or whatever.

The simpler chaps amongst us, would stick with proven toughness and reliability and use it to the hilt, enjoying every moment of it.

SUV/ UV/MUV/ Lorry/ Truck/ Jeep/ People Mover/ Rural Wagon/ Tractor - let them call it what they want - what does it matter anyway?

When inside it one is pretty nearly invincible!

Since Ive sold mine, I miss it a lot! Am waiting for the new Crde Bolero - then we will see!

Live and let live in the meantime

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Welcome to the owners who dont really go after snob value. See you learned something new.

Why we dont like calling the Bolero an SUV is because of the term itself. Sports Utility Vehicle what is it supposed to mean anyways?

Sports Utility Vehicle: A sport utility vehicle, or SUV is a generic specification for a passenger vehicle which combines the towing capacity of a pickup truck with the passenger-carrying space of a minivan or station wagon together with on or off road ability. Taken from the Wiki.

So its a mix of a station wagon, a tow truck, and has 4WD. I think thats a very confused vehicle in itself. I am not sure who came up with this SUV naming but to me it sounds like some manufacturers marketing ploy to rope in "snobbish" folks(customers) who dont like to get their feet dirty and prefer to be pseudo tough guys(thats the closet i get to being what is a snob in regards to vehicles)by driving their leather clad off road vehicles on smooth tarmac.

There are exceptions to the above(check the 4x4 section).

[Spitfire]

@Car-Agey: Thanks for understanding what i was trying to imply. I was waiting for another round of bricks.

Thats exactly how the SUV was perceived. After following through lenghty discussions on other threads regarding the meaning of what a SUV is to the Bolero being ridiculed for it being called a SUV, i understood that there is a big knowledge gap when folks try and address this SUV and MUV and UV break-up. Hope more see your post above and understand that folks raving about an SUV being superior to something like a Bolero understand that the SUV(i dont beleive in this term anymore) is exactly what they are pulling down or trying to make fun of.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

What about this Spitfire?

As I told you, I had written to Topgear and Auto Car in 2005 in defence of the Bolero, after I had bought my Bolero and did some slush d (r) iving in Coorg and Ooty and so on!

Very simple - with that nice torquey XD3PU engine chugging peacefully along in 1st gear,its high ground clearance and general tank type build etc the Bolero ploughed on, true to its "never say die" spirit.

However, if someone were to have taken a CRV or something of that kind to that same terrain, regardless of its 4WD and so on, I am pretty sure it would have taken one look at the mud, rocks, stones, logs and the thick icing/ garnish of slush, turned up its undoubtedly attractive nose, dug its heels in and refused to get its hooves dirty. If pushed in, Im sure it would have whinnied and shied and then probably died of fright/ heart failure!

But then there is also another statistic which clearly tell us the majority of those people who buy these expensive Urban SUVs/ Soft Roaders and even Land Rovers etc, simply never take them off the road, ever.

So such snob value and snobbery as may be present, can be reserved by those self same people, for their garden parties or whatever.

The simpler chaps amongst us, would stick with proven toughness and reliability and use it to the hilt, enjoying every moment of it.

SUV/ UV/MUV/ Lorry/ Truck/ Jeep/ People Mover/ Rural Wagon/ Tractor - let them call it what they want - what does it matter anyway?

When inside it one is pretty nearly invincible!

Since Ive sold mine, I miss it a lot! Am waiting for the new Crde Bolero - then we will see!

Live and let live in the meantime

You couldnt have said it better. That one statistic about never taking their vehicles off road tells me that they never really buy it for its purpose but rather for the snob value.

Yes Live and Let Live.

Everyone has his/her priorities. We can just give our opinions.

[wanderernomad]

Go to interiors in Himachal and see what Boleros, Commanders are doing to the roads( i am calling them roads since these vehicles ply on them, otherwise you wont recognise them as one). Just last weekend I came back from a whirlwind trip to a place called Kupvi where the road through Sainjkhud has been opened just 3 months back and is primitive to say the very least. I was travelling in the commander 4X4 750 DP and trust me I think I would have wasted my money buying a Scorpio (if I didnot have to drive it in the city that is) to travel on those roads.
The Bolero in all their avtaars were there and trust me when Himachal Govt buys them in bulk they know what they are doing as these vehicles are meant to go everywhere possible. There is no denying the fact that Bolero is a very capable vehicle and if what I saw an IPH driver doing with it while climbing up the Chanshal Pass, it takes my vote as the best SUV this side of 10L. I was driving the Scorpio and would have loathed to drive like what he did in his Bolero and absolutely no whine from the vehicle. If I could see anyhting in the Bolero's demeanour it was a slightly self congratulatory smile mixed with pride towards its more expensive cousin.