[Mpower]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

Then the Bolero has a edge it handles much better then the Scorpio.

I'd like to see more people confirm that. Maybe they should put the Scorp body on a Bolero chassis, pocket the cost savings and end all their worries.

[Spitfire]

If it is sarcasm i will let it pass. But if it is not i think you need to know that much more stuff goes in then just changing the bodies. Also are you saying that the Bolero and the Scorpio have the same chassis? Also you think that Mahindra just plonked the CRDe engine from the Scorpio onto the Bolero without any other modifications?

PS: You may know more then i will ever know but humility is a quality and i guess you should imbibe some. Everyone here has come to learn, if you by making above statement think you are superior then so be it. Other members who think i am wrong do send me a pm.

[shankar.balan]

couldnt agree more Torqy - after all it is a direct benefit to the consumers!

Originally Posted by Torqy

...sounds quite like "Why should a 60 year old guy buy new clothes / shoes?"

What's wrong with a new engine?

@Mpower: I confirm spitfire's comment on the Bolero's handling- having owned both vehicles I felt always that the Bolero's handling was better - largely since it is less top heavy than the Scorp. Put Alloys on the Bolero (16 inch as per the new crde rumour) , stick that crde 100 bhp into it, boost the brakes and add a few little modifications from the company's side to improve the vehicle a little more (all of which I am sure they have done because whatever their faults may be, they are pretty thorough) and believe me you will have an unbeatable UV. I am a firm Bolero fan because I know and trust its capabilities.

Originally Posted by Mpower

I'd like to see more people confirm that. Maybe they should put the Scorp body on a Bolero chassis, pocket the cost savings and end all their worries.

[jp1]

I am a Bolero user for the past 8 years and I vouch for its qualities. It is a very comfortable vehicle for a small family, for city driving (it is 1 ft less than Scoprio in length) and for long trips. The only thing lacking in it was a modern engine which Mahindra is addressing. Along with the new engine, braking also being improved. The current engine (mine is XDP) has adequate power for city driving or occasional high way driving at around 90Km/Hr. But biggest problem I am having is overtaking on highways, it is a bit of a problem with current engine power. I think with the CRDE that should be taken care. More power does not mean responsible people are going to drive it at high speeds, but it suits especially while overtaking on highways and stop and go situations. End of the day a Jeep is a Jeep, whether it is 60 years old or not, as long as it retains its character and keep improving with modern comforts, we will buy it.

[Spitfire]

I have used a Bolero for 4 years now. The one with the non turbo engine. Makes about 72.5 bhp and 15.5 kgm of torque. The chassis has never given me any scope for concern. Only issue is dont take sharp turns at speeds above 50 kmph, if you do that in a Bolero or for that matter in a Scorpio, you dont know your wheels.

Has anyone tried hard braking in a Bolero and a Scorpio, i tried that when we did a sort of a test on my friends private road. Jump on the brakes at 80 kmph. The Scorpio stopped in a lesser distance but gave you the fright of your life what with the chassis and suspension screaming out loud. The Bolero stopped a couple of meters more(bad brakes) but no drama. The vehicle was under total control. The one issue with the Bolero is its Power Steering very vague at high speeds so a bit scary. The Scorpio dosent fair any better though.

I always wanted to move up to the Scorpio from the Bolero, but everytime i thought about it i was not convinced, its(Bolero) not the best by a fair margin but for what it gives in return is mighty pleasing.

[bblost]

Originally Posted by Spitfire

When you say the Scorpio can hardly manage, what are you trying to say? Handling? Then the Bolero has a edge it handles much better then the Scorpio.

I agree. Driven them both on the same roads and always felt much better in a Bolero when compared to a Scorpio.

[shankar.balan]

well said. mine was the XD3PU engine no turbo.
and now that ive upgraded (in a manner of speaking) to a Scorp I agree with your points.
In fact, anyone who drives and treats an MUV/SUV type vehicle while cornering, on mountain roads and even driving at high speeds, in the same way that he/she would treat a low slung sports sedan/ saloon/ hatchback, is asking for trouble.
Lets not forget that these vehicles are inherently differently configured and have a higher CG and different characteristics which need to be respected for their own virtues.

Originally Posted by Spitfire

I have used a Bolero for 4 years now. The one with the non turbo engine. Makes about 72.5 bhp and 15.5 kgm of torque. The chassis has never given me any scope for concern. Only issue is dont take sharp turns at speeds above 50 kmph, if you do that in a Bolero or for that matter in a Scorpio, you dont know your wheels.

Has anyone tried hard braking in a Bolero and a Scorpio, i tried that when we did a sort of a test on my friends private road. Jump on the brakes at 80 kmph. The Scorpio stopped in a lesser distance but gave you the fright of your life what with the chassis and suspension screaming out loud. The Bolero stopped a couple of meters more(bad brakes) but no drama. The vehicle was under total control. The one issue with the Bolero is its Power Steering very vague at high speeds so a bit scary. The Scorpio dosent fair any better though.

I always wanted to move up to the Scorpio from the Bolero, but everytime i thought about it i was not convinced, its(Bolero) not the best by a fair margin but for what it gives in return is mighty pleasing.

[Spitfire]

The Bolero was a major exercise by Mahindra in the 90's to go upscale and launch a rather much improved luxury vehicle over their crude and noisy jeeps. It first tried with the Armada, understood that there is a market. Worked on the Armada a bit more and launched the Bolero. Under the skin the Bolero is nothing but a Jeep developed with years of experience in manufacturing one.

With the Scorpio they got into newer territory. They had moved up to accomodate the Scorpio. Something that would try and compete with products all over the world and improve the image of Mahindra even further. This was fuelled by the success of the Bolero. They have been trying to make the Scorpio a much better product over the years - only fault they are giving more importance to the looks and gadgets over suspension and other critical components.

The Bolero meanwhile due to its inherent jeep background stood the test of time quite well and with the new DI turbo and the variants started raking in the numbers. Since the product was making good money for them they agreed to channelling the money earned to improve the product. First they did the cosmetic job. Then the one major complaint by any Bolero owner was we need more power and a much refined engine(the non turbo was discontinued). Other then that the vehicle is great. So the CRDe engine.

If they have done their homework well, i am thinking the Bolero will see even better sales. Only issue could be it might eat up Scorpio sales, but then a Bolero owner and a Scorpio owner are totally different.

Again, its not the best vehicle and is crude in some respects compared to what should have actually been available. But then if you dont have high expectations the Bolero should do it for you. The CRDe engine may or may not work, but the Bolero is one product any company would be proud of.

[Blue Thunder]

Well said, Spitfire , you have mentioned the relevant points very beautifully and .

.

[Jammy70]

@spitfire - wonderfully summarised in post #84! One gets the feeling the product managers in M&M wouldn't know so much about the way the bolero has evolved...

@shankar - thanks, mate for the very useful inputs. Now let's just sit back and wait for M&M to get on with it and launch it.

@mpower - sorry mate for having hijacked the discussion (from reasons for bolero being no.1) to the bolero CRDE subject. Putting all that's been said till now, I do believe, like you said, currently bolero is a favourite in B category towns and rural areas due to its 'tough as nut' image. The one thing not going for it with urban markets was the lack of power and by plonking in the CRDE heart I think M&M is addressing that issue. If that happens, I don't see why Bolero shouldn't continue to be the number 1 SUV by a good margin for a very long time.

[shankar.balan]

BANG ON SPITFIRE - Im a 100% with you on this one.

Indeed, one of the reasons that they never bothered offering small touches like split foldable rear seat and a few other little comforts like AC/Heater in all the variants in the Bolero was that many people would have started considering it seriously as a real jeep type SUV and would have probably preferred it to Scorp! Indeed, I certainly would have!!

I will PM you a set of suggestions I had written to Mahindra as also what I wrote in defence of the Bolero to TOP GEAR Magazine in 2005. Top gear to do them credit, published that letter. (I suppose they have to show the world how sporting they are in receiving criticism!)

Top Gear , Auto Car and the other Auto Mags have always been unnecessarily sarky and dismissive towards this lovely MUV/SUV in their New Car Buyers Guide - saying silly things like" No Spanish Dancer this one, buy only if all else is out of reach etc." I was highly displeased with that dismissive and patronizing tone and wrote to them.

I am truly happy that they are coming out with a new improved version and indeed, I might even chuck the Scorp after a couple of years use and go back to the new Crde Bolero - I like it that much!

Originally Posted by Spitfire

The Bolero was a major exercise by Mahindra in the 90's to go upscale and launch a rather much improved luxury vehicle over their crude and noisy jeeps. It first tried with the Armada, understood that there is a market. Worked on the Armada a bit more and launched the Bolero. Under the skin the Bolero is nothing but a Jeep developed with years of experience in manufacturing one.

With the Scorpio they got into newer territory. They had moved up to accomodate the Scorpio. Something that would try and compete with products all over the world and improve the image of Mahindra even further. This was fuelled by the success of the Bolero. They have been trying to make the Scorpio a much better product over the years - only fault they are giving more importance to the looks and gadgets over suspension and other critical components.

The Bolero meanwhile due to its inherent jeep background stood the test of time quite well and with the new DI turbo and the variants started raking in the numbers. Since the product was making good money for them they agreed to channelling the money earned to improve the product. First they did the cosmetic job. Then the one major complaint by any Bolero owner was we need more power and a much refined engine(the non turbo was discontinued). Other then that the vehicle is great. So the CRDe engine.

If they have done their homework well, i am thinking the Bolero will see even better sales. Only issue could be it might eat up Scorpio sales, but then a Bolero owner and a Scorpio owner are totally different.

Again, its not the best vehicle and is crude in some respects compared to what should have actually been available. But then if you dont have high expectations the Bolero should do it for you. The CRDe engine may or may not work, but the Bolero is one product any company would be proud of.

[Torque-ative]

Originally Posted by Mpower

No, its more like why should a 60 yo take steroids, start pumping weights and playing rough sports. There is only so much that chassis can handle....the Scorp (30 yrs younger?)can barely manage.

How old are you ?! Not very I am preassuming.

If an old man wants to pump iron,..let him its his perrogative.
No harm in adding some lean muscle mass right ?!
Whether or not he wants to go playing rugby is up to him,..but lifting weights sure will make him more sure footed.

To each one his own
Cheers!

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by Jammy70

@spitfire - wonderfully summarised in post #84! One gets the feeling the product managers in M&M wouldn't know so much about the way the bolero has evolved...

Thats how many projects are worked upon. There is no rocket science involved. The basics are the same when it comes to any product.

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

BANG ON SPITFIRE - Im a 100% with you on this one.

I will PM you a set of suggestions I had written to Mahindra as also what I wrote in defence of the Bolero to TOP GEAR Magazine in 2005. Top gear to do them credit, published that letter. (I suppose they have to show the world how sporting they are in receiving criticism!)

Top Gear , Auto Car and the other Auto Mags have always been unnecessarily sarky and dismissive towards this lovely MUV/SUV in their New Car Buyers Guide - saying silly things like" No Spanish Dancer this one, buy only if all else is out of reach etc." I was highly displeased with that dismissive and patronizing tone and wrote to them.

I am truly happy that they are coming out with a new improved version and indeed, I might even chuck the Scorp after a couple of years use and go back to the new Crde Bolero - I like it that much!

Hey Shankar thanks for the note buddy. Good to know we have another Bolero in our midst.I am looking forward to that pm

And yes i do remember reading that mail in Top Gear mighty pleased to know it was someone from here. Anyways i do not agree with most of the stuff the mags have to say, they have their opinions.

I am hoping the Bolero CRDe stands upto our expectations, fingers crossed. But trust Mahindra to come good on it.

I am keeping the old model Bolero just for the way it has served me. I might go in for the CRDe but i tell you it would be a big decision to let go of the current one. Well i may keep both

Lot of folks who i have suggested the Bolero have been hesitant before buying one. But all those who did go with it do make a note of letting me know how good the vehicle is after they have used it.

[shankar.balan]

seriously me old pal, you should consider picking one up - perfect when you take into account your likely usage/budget/ space etc etc etc. Im keeping an eye out for launch/ test drive - will keep you posted on that and maybe we can do a test together eh?

And I can say that the MM Brand Manager/ Product Manager and President are very proactive people - I speak from personal experience.

Originally Posted by Jammy70

@spitfire - wonderfully summarised in post #84!
@shankar - thanks, mate for the very useful inputs. Now let's just sit back and wait for M&M to get on with it and launch it.

[simplyself]

On the whole Bolero is a good vehicle. And it brakes well, too. I had many experiences with its good braking. Even when one brakes hard, there is no fuss, the vehicle stops in a straight line.

By the way, can any one find me a 2004 -06 model Bolero fitted with DI engine and 4-speed gearbox with leaf springs in front?