[ethanhunt123]

Its also called people preferring Better *** / interiors / Resale Value. Not everyone buys a Swift DDiS due to herd mentality. Earlier manufacturers like Fiat realise this will be better for both them and also us - the buying public.

[sridharps]

Till July, Swift has had a whopping 78% market share in this segment(petrol + diesel vehicles). I would be watching with interest on whether the Vista quadrejet can make a dent into this segment.
Palio MJD is a good vehicle but suffers from poor image, lack of promotion from Fiat and the indifference of the Tata sales reps towards the Palio. I don't see matters improving on this front.

[k_ajay]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

There is a thread on T-BHP itself named " Protest Against Tata Motors ". This thread has sufficiently proved about After Sales and Service of Tata. Moreover, I have heard about Tata after sales and service from many people.

I've seen that post too, and acknowledge that individual has had a tough time with Tata and probably has been mistreated and not dealt with professionally.

But no one person's misfortune can be taken as a blanket criteria for labelling a particular brands A*S as poor. There are several Tata vehicle owners who have also had absolutely hassle free vehicle support and ownership from them.

It's like, would you agree Maruti's A*S is bad if there are a few threads on an individual's misfortune with that brand?

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

Its more distracting and in case of Vista, its not properly designed. It must be a bit larger and more clear,specially the tachometer. Moreover this instrument console has sent A/C controls down too much.

Again, individual statement and preference. Most individuals who have test driven the Vista have mentioned the central IP is not a distraction.. To add, even some Spark owners have commented they've not had issues with a central console.

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

To the space issue, well, I have myself mentioned space as the positive point of indica vista, but the boot space could have been more for the size fo this car. Boot space must also have substancially increased as compared to G1TI as overall there is increase in wheelbase and cabin space.

We're not comparing Vista with previous generations Indica's in this thread here please. We're comparing products of three different brands. If you've generously rated Indica's boot as a negative, what stopped you from doing the same for Swift? Be reasonable.

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

Yes, but this depends upon individual preferences and requirements.

Again, unreasonable... Vista's negatives are not 'individual preferences' but Swift's are.... Amusing.

No one here is claiming brand a is the best or brand b is the best. No one brand can be better than the other, as you can see from this thread. But when you've chosen to make comparisons from you're point of view, BE REASONABLE..

[architect]

Originally Posted by coolexpert

Critical questions first, and then my ramblings.
(1) How bad is the Palio A.S.S? What is the chance of running into problem with a Palio SDX MJD? How easy is it usually to fix them?
(2) How noisy / vibrating is the Getz CRDi engine? How does it vary / change / evolve in the longer run?

The big question is, how many Palios are usually "bad"? In other words, how easy / rewarding would it be to dispose my Palio when (1) it becomes old and/or (2) if I become unfortunate and have problems with the car? Palio A.S.S. is supposed to be bad, but how bad? Anyone from T-BHP with prior experience on this (good/bad/exactly what)?

I can try and answer some of the qiuestions about the Palio MJD, but only from my personal experience and from my interaction with other Palio owners (not just the Fiat fans on TBHP).

The Palio MJD engine needs no description. Power delivery is more linear than the Swift and the engine has become more silent after 9000 kms of driving so far. The only things that vibrate in my car are the parcel rack and the after market ICE HU (the latter is not Fiat's fault).

I have not heard of any lemons on the MJD but its too early. Most people I have met at the Fiat A.S.S. are happy with the service and do not have any major problems to certify them as "unfortunate" or owners of "lemons". What is difficult to come by is a good service center. Delhi has Samyak, with whom I have been very satisfied so far and this is the opinion of most people whom I have met there. Service experience with other places doesn't seem to be so good, as I have myself experienced at Vivek Auto.

Fiat is plagued equally by lack of know-how about their cars at the Tata service centres as by lack of parts. If you have access to a decent original Fiat dealer than you are better off. They can handle the Palio's body / electricals / suspensions issues much better. Servicing of the engines should not be much of an issue as Tata is making efforts to make its workmen familiar with the MJD engine.

That said, you have to remember two cardinal rules about maintaining any piece of machinery: 1. Preventive Maintenance is better than post-damage maintenance. 2. You HAVE to devote time to maintain your piece of machinery. (1-2 days for regular service once in 6 months is not a big deal, is it?)

Resale is one thing I can't comment upon. But I think it is quite bad. However, the Palio MJD might just hold its resale value better than the older Palios, largely because of the ever-important mileage issue. But its too early!

[dobriyal]

Originally Posted by shantyrocks

of all the arguments one thing can be made out that ppl are voting for the vdi just because of the ASS?
I guess FIAT pe ab chaap pad gayi hai...
of offering bad *** even though guys in this forum have had good things to say only about the FIAT ***.
I think we in india dont give anyone a second chance.
all the best FIAT

I am close to the second service of my MJD, which will tell me more about the A.S.S. There were no problem in the first service with Pundit Auto (Pune).

, shantyrocks, getting a second chance is difficult when there's so much personal involvement and emotion attached in a car purchase. People never buy without taking advise and the advisers almost always play safe. It's so easy to forget the deeds of a non-performing politician because there are often no strong emotions involved while voting.

Which means Fiat needs work doubly hard to change the perception. They do seem to be taking some baby-steps:

• Launching 500 (which is meant to change perceptions about Fiat)
• Plans to launch a number of other models
• Plans to make Ranjangaon (near Pune) a "global base" for Fiat

At least we can hear them make some noise every few days.

[TheARUN]

Yesterday I had the opportunity to see the Visat up close.

The first impression, as cliched as it may sound, was evolutionary rather than revolutionary.

The design element that caught my eye was the headlight. Especially the small jutting portion that breaks the smoothness of the design.

The first thing I checked out was the boot. The boot looked smaller than a normal Indica. Was very disappointing. The rear seat was very comfortable and there was ample legroom. Everything looked fine, but it still looked like a budget car, with no fabric trim anywhere.

The most shocking thing was the price quoted. Some Tom, Dick or Harry that was representing the Dealer quoted the following.

1. Cheapest petrol vairant = 5,50,000
2. Quadarajet = 5,75,000

The figures are absurd. Later felt bad for it, but I told the person on the face that the Swift DDIS LDI is available for 5,35,000 and the cheapest Swift was 4,75,000

The car is not a patch on the Swift. Long live the Swift

[TheARUN]

I voted for the Swift.

It is a very good looker. And it is like a drawing board, you can tastefully do it up to your liking.

The things I would do if I bought one are

1. Alloys, preferably spinners. (They cost a bomb, but only a FERRARI can get you more attention)
2. Aftermarket tail and headlights, that look like Xenons
3. Spread the SWIFT badging on the tailgate
4. AUDI goatee type grill

Can't think of anything for the VISTA. The car looks ordinary

Would love to pull up in a SWIFT anyday

[greenhorn]

Originally Posted by TheARUN

Some Tom, Dick or Harry that was representing the Dealer quoted the following.

1. Cheapest petrol vairant = 5,50,000
2. Quadarajet = 5,75,000

The figures are absurd.

quite true. Tom Dick or Harry needs to be fired

Originally Posted by TeddyBear

On Road prices costiest in Bangalore
On Road price of Swift (Bimal)
Vdi=6.02
Ldi=5.61
Vxi=5.20
Lxi=4.84
Zxi=6.23

Vista On Road price in Bangalore (Prerna Motors)
Vista Quadrajet
Aura = 5.69
Aqua = 5.41

Vista TDi
Aqua Tdi = 4.73
Terra Tdi = 4.57

Safire petrol
Terra =4.13
Aqua =4.40
Aura =4.69 L

[DCEite]

To summarize.

DDiS - for someone looking at Fun to drive factor, after sales, reliability.

Vista - for those looking at practicality, space.

MJD - for those looking for Tank like build quality™ and doors that close with a reassuring thud™.

[MuzzledMoose]

VISTA being NEW KID ON THE BLOCK. Newer engines will have rectified the older bugs

[dj_turbo]

After having TDed Swift DDIS and Vista back to back, IMO Vista is a better package with better intreriors and reasonable pricing.

At the same TATA dealership, I asked for TD of Fiat MJD. We went to the parking area (which was different for Fiat cars) and he tried to awake the beast. But it didnot start at all, then the salesperson told me that it is out of Diesel. . (it seemed that they dont even bother if their TD car doesnt have fuel)

I am afraid that if at all I go for MJD, same might be true for Spare parts, service etc. I hope that doesnt hold true for other dealerships.

[shantyrocks]

doesnt the mjd and the DDiS share the same engine.
so wont the spares of the DDiS work for the mjd as well?

[aaggoswami]

Originally Posted by k_ajay

I've seen that post too, and acknowledge that individual has had a tough time with Tata and probably has been mistreated and not dealt with professionally.
But no one person's misfortune can be taken as a blanket criteria for labelling a particular brands A*S as poor...

I have seen more cases, not exactly this bad, but many. When we were hunting for a car, my father spoke to many owners and their response was not good. Recently, when a couple of my friends bought Swift DDis, they also went to Tata dealer, but were not satisfied by the response.

Originally Posted by k_ajay

It's like, would you agree Maruti's A*S is bad if there are a few threads on an individual's misfortune with that brand?

The general response on Maruti is not bad and moreover, there are more Maruti owners and still the response manages to be good.

Originally Posted by k_ajay

Again, individual statement and preference. Most individuals who have test driven the Vista have mentioned the central IP is not a distraction.. To add, even some Spark owners have commented they've not had issues with a central console.

Its just my view, but it is distracting a bit because they have not designed it well. The tacho is too small for comfortable viewing. Also, as I have mentioned earlier, this design has sent A/C controls down which is not a good thing at all.

Originally Posted by k_ajay

We're not comparing Vista with previous generations Indica's in this thread here please. We're comparing products of three different brands. If you've generously rated Indica's boot as a negative, what stopped you from doing the same for Swift? Be reasonable.

With each successive generations, almost all cars manage to improve upon the previous cars. For a car with relatively long ( for small car ) wheelbase and good interior space, the boot space hasnt gone up the way it could have. This is a negative. I know its not a comparison thread, but I feel Tata has opted for shortcuts. I was expecting Getz beating boot space. Swift hasnt entered in second generation, but Indica has, and Swift is never famed for its space.

Originally Posted by k_ajay

Again, unreasonable... Vista's negatives are not 'individual preferences' but Swift's are.... Amusing.

Well, again, as compared to G1TI, I expected more from Indica. That's why. I was expecting better suspension, handling, boot space and better engines. Right now only 1.25 ltr multijet is good option. The 1.1 Fiat motor with VVT is not sufficient to haul this now large car. Other is dicor 1.4. I was expecting a new range of petrol and diesel motors.

To me, atleast G2TI is a disappointment.

Note : Above are my opinions on G2TI as per which I have posted the negatives and positives of this car. No offence is meant to any one.

[blue_pulsar]

Saw a red Indica Vista on road today. Frankly speaking, it lacks the wow factor of the Swift. Looks like a modified Indica. Add to that its 'confused' look. No offense meant, but its headlamps looks like someone kicked on its a**.

But as others suggested, it might be extremely practical.

[Trapezio]

Originally Posted by aaggoswami

With each successive generations, almost all cars manage to improve upon the previous cars. For a car with relatively long ( for small car ) wheelbase and good interior space, the boot space hasnt gone up the way it could have. This is a negative. I know its not a comparison thread, but I feel Tata has opted for shortcuts. I was expecting Getz beating boot space. Swift hasnt entered in second generation, but Indica has, and Swift is never famed for its space.

Relative to the interiors the boot space has not grown. Agreed. But the existing boot space is not bad. You can fix a suitcase and a bit more in that for sure..! Moreover if you do not travel every second day with luggage you can manage with 60/40 seats.