[harishv]

Originally Posted by navin

Harish, maybe your own post here has a clue!

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1229627-post155.html

HEY NAVIN. LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD. DIDN'T STRIKE ME. COULD BE POSSIBLE FRIEND.

Originally Posted by ShyamSCrdi

Keep pushing it Harish. This is a whole forum you have going to get backing from so even the court can not rule against you.
Cheers

Thanks Shyam. Will do.

[me_sid]

Here is what we can do: Open Google. Search for "skoda instigate". The team-bhp post will appear as the first link there. click on the link and do it whenever you are free []. If every member does it atleast 3 times a day the hit count for our link will increase a lot. After few days you will see the magic. Just searching Skoda you will get our thread as the first link.

I think this idea is pretty good lets start this ASAP.

[jasher26]

Originally Posted by me_sid

Here is what we can do: Open Google. Search for "skoda instigate". The team-bhp post will appear as the first link there. click on the link and do it whenever you are free []. If every member does it atleast 3 times a day the hit count for our link will increase a lot. After few days you will see the magic. Just searching Skoda you will get our thread as the first link.

I think this idea is pretty good lets start this ASAP.

we maybe need to add words like "skoda india service review" in the name of the page and the title. This will help a lot.

Google algorithm uses the title of page, page name and content to rank pages. Of course link popularity helps a lot so leaving messages on other forums will help

Off the topic, please delete if required

[sidwadia]

The list just keeps getting longer !!! Check this link out. Harish , you may wanna contact them to garner numbers for a class action suit.

skoda laura Complaints

[sidwadia]

AMAZING......... check this one out 98 formal complaints!!!
Indian Consumer Complaints Forum | skoda

[Harbir]

Harish,

I am trying to understand the situation more clearly, but I get confused with all the posts on the subject so if you don't mind, I'd like to ask if I understand it correctly:

1. You car was in an accident
2. Nummer Eins, the Skoda dealer, installed parts that were not official Skoda replacement parts, but charged you for Skoda parts.
3. You discovered this and raised the issue with Skoda.
4. Skoda had the parts replaced with official Skoda orginal equipment replacement parts.
5. Skoda asked you to not procede against Nummer Eins and to let them deal with it.
6. You agreed
7. Skoda disenfranchised Nummer Eins, who is no longer a Skoda dealer.
8. While this was going on, somebody from Nummer Eins tried to steal the non-Skoda OE parts that had been removed from your car
9. Skoda wanted you to sign a letter by which you would take back your claim and be unable to make this claim in the future
10. When you refused to do this, Skoda took the position that it could not be proved that those parts had been fitted to your car by its dealer and asked you to pay again for the parts, though you had already paid Nummer Eins for the parts when the car was originally repaired.
11. Now Skoda refuses to return the car to and is looking like its trying to drag the case out to eternity, seemingly to prevent resolution that could possibly establish officially that its dealers do engage in fraud.
12. Therefore, it seems like Skoda was willing to fix your problem but only if you cooperated in ensuring that Skoda dealers committing fraud does not get established a legal fact.

Is this correct?

If it is correct, and Nummer Eins was indeed disbarred, I think Skoda went very far indeed, further than I could imagine any company in India going. That would mean that they are serious about dealing with dealers committing fraud, but are also interested in protecting the standing of the Skoda and its dealer body.

In that case, I think we can atleast give Skoda credit for having taken such serious action against Nummer Eins, which is no small issue, and for having fixed your car.

That leaves the issue of you refusing to sign the letter they wanted you to. On one hand, if you sign that letter, it would amount to dropping your claim, and of destroying the reality of this action by the dealer. On the other hand, somebody could argue that Skoda took extreme actions in order to compromise with you but you chose not to compromise with Skoda.

To me it seems like if you choose not to compromise then Skoda has the choice to either accept on paper that its dealers commit fraud, or it can decided that it has made good faith efforts to resolve your issues, fired the fraud committing dealer, and since you are in return not willing to help them with what they need, they'll fight you in the courts and use the tools available to them to get what they want.

The website for Nummer Eins is non existent ( www.nummereins.co.in )and the registration for the their domain name expired about 2 weeks ago. if this dealer has gone out of business because of this fraud, or has had to start up as a different company doing other things, I think thats pretty extreme action by Skoda on this case and it makes me atleast somewhat sympathetic to their desire for some protection in return for having taken such extreme action on behalf of customers.

[mmmjgm]

Originally Posted by Harbir

Harish,

I am trying to understand the situation more clearly, but I get confused with all the posts on the subject so if you don't mind, I'd like to ask if I understand it correctly:

1) Car not returned - coercion to sign the letter absolving SAIPL of all liabilities in this case. Case of arm twisting to suit themselves, dealer be damned.
2) Not agreeing to state that their dealer has done it on paper/in the court.
3) Last but not the least at least repair the product and give it back.

Harish, this is my understanding in this case.

There is another case but far more horrific as compared to Harish's case, here there are two cars in the garage (of a Skoda Dealer) , case of two cars, one Laura & the other an Octavia (both accident repairs) , the issue is over an advance given for a Fabia, with the same dealer. The dealer is holding onto the prospective buyers advance of over 5.9 lakhs in this case and not returning two cars & the advance.

The poor guy wanted to cancel the Fabia purchase after giving an advance to the dealer.

Horrific man. SKODA INDIA Complaints - I will never buy Skoda again!

[jasher26]

Originally Posted by mmmjgm

1) Car not returned - coercion to sign the letter absolving SAIPL of all liabilities in this case. Case of arm twisting to suit themselves, dealer be damned.
2) Not agreeing to state that their dealer has done it on paper/in the court.
3) Last but not the least at least repair the product and give it back.

Harish, this is my understanding in this case.

There is another case but far more horrific as compared to Harish's case, here there are two cars in the garage (of a Skoda Dealer) , case of two cars, one Laura & the other an Octavia (both accident repairs) , the issue is over an advance given for a Fabia, with the same dealer. The dealer is holding onto the prospective buyers advance of over 5.9 lakhs in this case and not returning two cars & the advance.

The poor guy wanted to cancel the Fabia purchase after giving an advance to the dealer.

Horrific man. SKODA INDIA Complaints - I will never buy Skoda again!

posted that link yesterday

too horrific

scary

[danc]

Originally Posted by Harbir

Harish,


If it is correct, and Nummer Eins was indeed disbarred, I think Skoda went very far indeed, further than I could imagine any company in India going. That would mean that they are serious about dealing with dealers committing fraud, but are also interested in protecting the standing of the Skoda and its dealer body.

I can tell from my previous experience in working with a major Indian telecom operator that getting rid of a dealer specially an exclusive one for whatever reasons is a Huge decision for any Indian corporate, because normally the dealers are local big shots with connections (and would not let the alternate dealer to function smoothly, at least for some time) and would also claim huge liability damages on the investments they would have done for the dealership and the opprtunity costs etc.

This means that Skoda was absolutely sure and had prrofs of the malpractices this dealer was doing. what is stopping them then to accept this fact and say sorry on behalf of their ex representative (the dealer that is) and in turn earn a lot of goodwill. There are malpractices by many car dealers of all brands, but not many take this type of an action, so why didn't skoda use this opprtunity.

Obviously the responsible managers did not suggest this course of action and the top management has choosen to be far removed from reality and just enjoy their stint while they are in India!

[downsouth]

For the last couple of hours, this thread has kept me glued to the screen. The attitude of Skoda is indeed shocking, but where does this all lead to. Just having bought a Linea, I am having second thoughts about the service my car will go through.

I still can’t digest the fact that a Dealer with whom we trust our beloved cars to be taken care of actually goes out and messes it up. Coming from Skoda is a lot more shocking than it is supposed to be, I am sure there a lot more such cases hidden. Just not from Skoda but other car manufacturers as well.

I don’t blame Skoda alone, there is a serious deficiency of service from a lot of private sector players. Finally there is a forum to voice our concern and united we can get some results.

P.S. I might have missed some of our lawyer member comments, but once the matter is Sub-judice aren’t you not supposed to discuss the matter in a public forum?

[GTO]

It is best for Harish to answer the case-specific questions from your post. BUT:

Originally Posted by Harbir

If it is correct, and Nummer Eins was indeed disbarred, I think Skoda went very far indeed, further than I could imagine any company in India going. That would mean that they are serious about dealing with dealers committing fraud, but are also interested in protecting the standing of the Skoda and its dealer body.

In that case, I think we can atleast give Skoda credit for having taken such serious action against Nummer Eins, which is no small issue, and for having fixed your car.

Huh? Give Skoda credit?! What the heck should we give Skoda credit for? Do you think that Skoda shut down Nummer Eins dealership because of *maintaining dealer standards* or Harishs case only? If that was a fact, then over half of Skoda's dealerships in India would have been shut down for cheating customers.

Consider this thread as an example : A Skoda dealer from Bangalore FORGED signatures of a BHPian. Yup, you got that right....FORGED. How? From passport copies that were left behind. And this wasn't one signature we are talking about.....a whopping FIVE signatures. Diffsoft approached Skoda - the company you want to give *credit* to. Guess what they did? NOTHING. It was ONLY after he went to the Police that TAFE backed off and admitted their mistakes.

Forgery / bogus documents / misrepresenting signatures is a bigger deal than replacing parts, according to Indian law. Why? Simply because putting counterfeit parts is one thing...counterfeit signatures is taking it to an entirely different level (misrepresenting parts versus an actual human being!). For fake parts, a consumer court order the dealer to pay some financial compensation to the owner. [q]Butttttttttttttttttttt, forged documents & faking signatures will get you in JAIL! And for 3 - 7 YEARS at that. [/b]

Now, I would like to ask you:

1. Why is Tafe Skoda still an authorised dealer of Skoda? If, as you say, Skoda is so serious about its dealer quality, WHY? After all, Tafe Skoda has committed a larger mistake, even from the customers point of view. You will also agree that someone forging your signatures and misrepresenting your consent is a calamity, compared to some parts changed in your Lotus. We both know the answer to this one, Harbir.

2. Why did Skoda NOT do anything about this matter when it was brought to their notice? I guess we would have realised by now, that Skoda India simply says that it is not responsible for their dealers behaviour. Get this : Diffsofts lawyer sent legal notices to the dealer and to Skoda. WHAT DID SKODA DO THEN? Nothing. This is what diffsoft wrote in this post after the ordeal was over:

Anyway no more Skoda for me for the rest of my life (they are yet to respond to my notices). I am going ahead and buying a Verna - I know it is not as good as Octavia /' Laura in build quality but I will have peace of mind

3. Why did it take the Police to set things right? Was the said car not being purchased from a Skoda authorised dealership? Now, how do we apply your statement which says "Skoda is serious about its dealerships committing fraud"? Absolute hogwash they are serious. In fact, Skoda India has as many frauds as their dealers do. One dealer stepping out of line is an exception. But when most dealers do, that says a lot about the manufacturers standards, training, systems and corrective measures. Of which Skoda India obviously has none btw.

That is only one example I have given you, and can provide countless more. And if Skoda was even a little serious about its dealership standards, there wouldn't be thousands of horror stories on Skoda's customer service (Multiple times that of any other supposed premium car manufacturer). It is because of SKODAS PATHETIC ATTITUDE that customers need to resort to the Police and to Courts for the most basic ethics and standards. The new age Indian customer is smart. And for sheer peace of the mind, he will look at brands other than the lousy Skoda. Not everyone has time to knock on the courts / police stations doors for justice. After all, we are paying customers!

[downsouth]

"Forgery / bogus documents / misrepresenting signatures" and everytime I used pass Tafe Skoda on St. Marks road in B'lore I used to be impressed with their choice of place.

They just took the sales pitch to the next level, of no return. I am going to do my two bits for Skoda sales and send out this link to all my outlook contacts, RIGHT NOW.

[YC.BALENO.CHD]

here comes another horror story from another skoda dealer.Are these guys on some record breaking spree or what? Its almost torture for a customer.After reading these issues i have asked my dad to never take his company car (skoda octavia rider 1.8) for servicing again and ask his organisation to change it with the newer Altis.Who knows the dealer might rip off few lakhs worth of parts from dad's company car.Skoda's image has taken a great beating in past one week.There cars may be solid but there after sales? Scary seems to be an understatement.

[cruiser_1982]

Originally Posted by sidwadia

AMAZING......... check this one out 98 formal complaints!!!
Indian Consumer Complaints Forum | skoda

FIAT with such a bad perception , has only 87 complaints. Cannot guess the fate of SKODA

[harishv]

Originally Posted by Harbir

Harish,

I am trying to understand the situation more clearly, but I get confused with all the posts on the subject so if you don't mind, I'd like to ask if I understand it correctly:

1. You car was in an accident
2. Nummer Eins, the Skoda dealer, installed parts that were not official Skoda replacement parts, but charged you for Skoda parts.
3. You discovered this and raised the issue with Skoda.
4. Skoda had the parts replaced with official Skoda orginal equipment replacement parts.
5. Skoda asked you to not procede against Nummer Eins and to let them deal with it.
6. You agreed
7. Skoda disenfranchised Nummer Eins, who is no longer a Skoda dealer.
8. While this was going on, somebody from Nummer Eins tried to steal the non-Skoda OE parts that had been removed from your car
9. Skoda wanted you to sign a letter by which you would take back your claim and be unable to make this claim in the future
10. When you refused to do this, Skoda took the position that it could not be proved that those parts had been fitted to your car by its dealer and asked you to pay again for the parts, though you had already paid Nummer Eins for the parts when the car was originally repaired.
11. Now Skoda refuses to return the car to and is looking like its trying to drag the case out to eternity, seemingly to prevent resolution that could possibly establish officially that its dealers do engage in fraud.
12. Therefore, it seems like Skoda was willing to fix your problem but only if you cooperated in ensuring that Skoda dealers committing fraud does not get established a legal fact.

Is this correct?

If it is correct, and Nummer Eins was indeed disbarred, I think Skoda went very far indeed, further than I could imagine any company in India going. That would mean that they are serious about dealing with dealers committing fraud, but are also interested in protecting the standing of the Skoda and its dealer body.

In that case, I think we can atleast give Skoda credit for having taken such serious action against Nummer Eins, which is no small issue, and for having fixed your car.

That leaves the issue of you refusing to sign the letter they wanted you to. On one hand, if you sign that letter, it would amount to dropping your claim, and of destroying the reality of this action by the dealer. On the other hand, somebody could argue that Skoda took extreme actions in order to compromise with you but you chose not to compromise with Skoda.

To me it seems like if you choose not to compromise then Skoda has the choice to either accept on paper that its dealers commit fraud, or it can decided that it has made good faith efforts to resolve your issues, fired the fraud committing dealer, and since you are in return not willing to help them with what they need, they'll fight you in the courts and use the tools available to them to get what they want.

The website for Nummer Eins is non existent ( www.nummereins.co.in )and the registration for the their domain name expired about 2 weeks ago. if this dealer has gone out of business because of this fraud, or has had to start up as a different company doing other things, I think thats pretty extreme action by Skoda on this case and it makes me atleast somewhat sympathetic to their desire for some protection in return for having taken such extreme action on behalf of customers.

Harbir - I would like to correct the sequence and add a few points.

Point no 1 to 4 and 11, 12 – absoulutely right.

I would like to go to point no.8, which is the crux of the issue –

8. It wasn’t anybody from Nummer Eins. It was Skoda Engineer Yogesh Vaidya under direct instructions from Head of Customer Care, Karthik Ramesh, who tried to smuggle the spurious parts out and tried to hand it over to Nummer Eins, and that too clandestinely, after I left the workshop. I had demanded they be handed over to the Police.

This was in May 2008, much before point no 5,6 and 7.

After that I had filed a Consumer case against Skoda and Nummer Eins on 17th July 2008.

Point no 5 - Skoda asked me not to proceed against Nummer Eins only with the Press. The case against them could continue.

Point no 6, 9 and 10 – absolutely right. This happened on 19th August 2008 at the JW Marriott, Mumbai.

Point no 7 – happened on 5th September 2008.

Please note that this fraud was discovered in April 2008. Skoda shut the dealer in September 2008. Skoda did not do it of their own free will. There was immense pressure put on Skoda though the Press, Television, Police, German Embassy, Indo German Chamber of Commerce, Czech Embassy, Volkswagen, affected customers etc. If Skoda had its way, they would have smuggled out the evidence, destroyed it and claimed that the parts removed from my car were genuine.

Credit to Skoda for having fixed my car?
No way Sir. Skoda dealer committed a theft in my car. Skoda is responsible for their dealer. I do not think Skoda did me any favor by rectifying my car.

This racket was on at Nummer Eins for a long time. Do you think it could flourish without the blessings of regulators at Skoda? The dealers were not the only ones to blame. There is a bigger angle to this whole story. Trust me, it is a Pandora’s box.

I would like to remind you that my accident took place because of the existence of spurious brake discs and pads in my car. I was lucky I was alone and not with my family. Skoda and its dealers are playing with the lives of Indian citizens and their families.

Yes, Harbir, I chose not to compromise with Skoda and Nummer Eins because if I would have, the next car that would have entered Nummer Eins after I left would have had the spurious parts installed in it. I believe serious action should be taken against the dealer and all those who facilitate him and they should be heavily penalized. I am not for accepting my car and brushing the whole thing under the carpet

After reading all the cases coming from various dealers, do you think, Skoda is seriously interested in protecting their standing?

Conclusion –
Despite Skoda people involved, I agreed to let Skoda off the hook.
I did not ask them to accept that their dealer committed fraud. Why should I accept that their dealer did not?

Originally Posted by harishv

GTO.

I believe Nummer Eins has started a new venture with ex Skoda MD as partner, called

Roadworx (Roadworx.in) is a aftermarket service center for high end imported cars.
It is promoted by One Stone International Pvt. Ltd., Mumbai in joint venture with Roadworks, Hamburg, Germany

The Directors are :
Imran Hassen (Ex-Skoda MD)
Ravneet S. Medi (NummerEins)
Frank Lischewsky (Roadworks, Germany)
H.S. Vijan (NummerEins)

Figure out the nexus. Sacked dealer starts new venture with ex-MD of Skoda.