[blacmagic]

OFF TOPIC: heaven save us from rampant incompetence. is this what a government webpage should look like where the title itself spells "government" wrong?

Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR

:: Ministry of Consumer Affairs, Food&Public Distribution :: Governmant of India

[VeluM]

Harish really deserves all the congratulations he has received. I do not know of many people who would think that the effort and hardships faced worth the effort of making life easier for consumers in general. Most of us (including me) would accept the "free" replacement of spurious parts by genuine and some money to "keep quiet".

I would like to mention here that I have a problem with my Spark which I escalated by emailing the GM consumer complaints address. I also copied the GM head of India on that email, and so far the response has been pretty close to awesome. Although the problem persists, it is not due to lack of effort on either the dealer's or GM's part (although the service center did need a bit of negative incentive to do the work properly).

I mentioned in my email that as the owner of the car, I would think it should be mandatory that I be informed that a part is going to be changed, and then it be left to me to say whether I wish to be present or not at the time the change is to be made. Oil change is something of a joke here in Bangalore, as my last car (Maruti) went without one for over a year until it wouldn't start, even though I had paid for oil changes at four separate Maruti stations (two were also dealers). Once bitten, I now make it a practice to tell the service person that I want to be there for any part/oil change.

That's not a solution, but I think it is better to be safe than sorry.

In Harish's case, one really can't be expected to be present throughout an accident-repair scenario, and also if they remove perfectly good parts and replace them with spurious ones. Well, the less said of what I think about that, the better. Might get banned for language.

I have also (as my contribution) advised my sister against going for a Skoda, and myself will never even think of buying one. Not even second hand.

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by Ravveendrra

If Skoda sails out of India, they will be doing so on their own steam (or lack of it). If that happens, consumers in India will be the ultimate losers.

Cheers,

Ravveendrra

Why at 1st glance your posts seem like very balanced but till the time one reaches end of it, many a times it tilts Skoda's way?

Tell us, how consumers in India will be the ultimate losers? Indian economy just by its sheer size is one of the biggest for any biz & hence its difficult to ignore it. By leaving India Skoda will be the ultimate sufferers & not the consumers. Consumers will have choice, we're not banana republic with monoploistic biz environment. There are better cars which are "truly" luxury. Also, its in fact better that Skoda leaves, if you still feel otherwise, how would you answer following:

- the issue was not one-off by one dealer. there are atleast more than 20 bigger & similar issues out of which atleast 5-6 are spares pilferage/ theft by different dealers in different parts of the country. This can not happen without Skoda turning a blind eye & indirectly (or directly) encourages it.
- How would you explain Skoda's emplyee Yogesh Vaidya forcing JMD & smuggling Harish car's parts to Nummer Eins?
- How would you explain Skoda forcing JMD to suppress truth?
- How would you explain such extreme extreme multiple complaints coming only from Skoda? I mean we've hear awful A.S.S. from some other mfrs but have you ever heard of multiple cases of Spares pilerage/ theft by dealers conniving with mfrs?
- How would you explain their rude & terse replies (verbal & written) starting from the service advisor to MD of their International venture treating customer complaint as a joke. some of them are posted in these 2-3 threads & many more you can find by googling it. Have you ever heard any other dealer staff or any other biz telling customer that "itne din car yahaan chhodoge to damage or part missing to hoga hi na"
- Have you ever seen amy other mfr or biz or company with such an arrogance?
- How would you explain plight of a customer who have to stand on a road with his car with a poster glued to his car explaining the torture he has gone thro'/ Imagine how would he be feeling? Have you seen any other car mfr customer however bad its A.S.S. is driving customers to such a level?
- What would you say if harish does not win the case & the issue is not resolved? right now there is no reason to believe that the issue will be solved as Skoda has not given slightest of indication

Raavendrra - there is something drastically wrong & its not being acknowledged by the co. someone telling you is not aan cknowledgement, many dealers DOING it to many customers SHOWING the positive results is the acknowledgement & a step towards improvement. is that happening? NO.

Some of the posts in this thread by some tbhpians read like written by a lawyer who is very very careful not to cross limit to jeopardize his credibility & like astrologer keep it both ways, whichever side wins so that he is not on a losing side, thats how lawyers communicate, right? like Yes or no, if not proven guilty then innocent, if 1 thing done correctly, hype it to mask 10 bad things & give benefit of doubt. Or like giving "benefit of doubt" to a criminal who has not one but multiple no. of similar allegations in the disuise of that he told me that he is improving.

Its not Harish's court case alone its Harish's ISSUE (& also may be others issues) which needs to be resolved. Harish may lose the court case thanks to lawyers & their likely arguments as per above examples. That does not mean he was wrong & his issue is closed in favour of the co. that also will not mean Skoda has started improving & consumers will be benefited if it stays on or consumers will be the ultimate losers if it leaves.

Its easier to say goody goody things but put yourselves in harish, kapil or that banglorean's shoes & think how valid those goody things are considering the paid inflicted.

I'm sorry if my post sounds bit extreme but couldn't help it after reading some of the posts which are technically alright but lags in common sense.

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by ACM

I guess Skoda and all other manufacturers as well, do need to have a technically correct statement that means that " dealer goof ups are not their responsibility" in fine print.

Oops. Thats a very deadly statement. Customers buy & service cars at dealerships? why? because they love them or because they get it free there? Wrong, they do it as Manufacturer has DIRECTED them to do it WITHOUT ANY OPTION.

In any case, in any biz involving a principle-Dealer-Distributor chain, principle is considered to be responsible for all actions of its Dealers. He has appointed him, he is controlling him, he is making sure customers are directed to him. In case of car dealerships, mfr is (or should be) in a better control. If it can't control dealers who does fraud, then it should quit that business on moral ground stating its incapability to control dealers who dupes customers. Is Skoda willing to do it? Why should customers be duped because of Skoda's incapability to control the dealers? Why Skoda is not responsible for letting it go on? Why then it forces the customers to go to its dealers only to fasten a screw? to get the customer duped again?

[YC.BALENO.CHD]

It all reminded me of an incident almost 8 years old.I was too young to remember it in detail but here is how it went.We had a '97 M800 as a regular car,we were based at dehradun and had to travel to delhi.During the trip,the car developed strange sounds from front wheels.The car had run 50k then.We gave the car to a MASS at Noida and the disk pads had to be replaced.Dad had to go to Hyderabad for a 7 day seminar and so we took back the car after around 8 days.The car seemed fine then but during our journey back to home the car seemed to lose pick up.Dad got the car checked at Dehradun (at our local mechanic) and it was found that some part had been replaced by a defective one and M-SEAL used to make it work temporarily.I dont remember what part it was,but as the mechanic told it usually takes a day to replace it and for the M-SEAL to get solidified it must have been done at NOIDA only.Dad consulted the MASS at dehradun and they were of same opinion.
Dad got quite agitated and as we were about to buy an ESTEEM at that time,the decision was put on hold and dad wrote to MUL.Within a week they called and told that an engineer would call and we may fix an appointment with him.True to their words,two people came,inspected the car,listened to our theory,took the car for further inspection,brought it back in the evening and said that it was MASS,NOIDA's fault.
In the next ten days,the local MASS took our car,changed the part,gave a free wash,and when the car was delivered back,its petrol tank was full,i.e.atleast 20 litres of free petrol and also he gave two coupons for free service.All that for a 4 year old entry-level car.Soon after a letter from MUL followed with an apology and a statement that they have taken necessary action against MASS,NOIDA.
Impressed by it,we did buy an esteem soon after,and the 4 vehicles we have are all from maruti. (800,esteem,baleno,sx4).
Now as i reflect back,i think how apologetic MUL was,at a time when the competition was not much and it was just an old M800.

And then we have this horrifying tale(s) from a 'luxury' car manufacturer.
Sure,dealer indulging in malpractice isn't surprising,what is surprising is the fact that instead of being apologetic,they cover up their dealers fault and harrass customer and 'threaten' people here.Is skoda being operated by a bunch of school going kids? The way they portray their professionalism or the lack of it,surely denotes to it.
Its time the 'luxury' car manufacturer should learn from 'people's' car maufacturer.

Sorry for the lengthy post mates,thought i should share the incident.

Regards

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by Ravveendrra

GTO and Navin have already stated that it is in nobody's interest to run Skoda into the ground. By doing so, they have set us on the path of becoming enlightened consumers who can help Skoda clean their backyard. It is time to follow. We can help by sending them constant feedback particularly on bad or crooked practices by dealers and employees. Of course, this does not mean that they should not be hauled over coals for bad products or service. Let the fight continue but, as Thad has rightly pointed out let us use our 'common-sense' .


Cheers,

Help them by sending constant feedback on bad or crooked practices by dealers & employess (what makes yopu believe Skoda doesn't know it & want our "help" to know it) to achieve what? To fight court cases against customers like Harish. Till the time they clear all the mess they don't deserve to be here (however extreme it sounds). Once they clear it they are welcome with both the arms enveloping them. isn't it fair? But then till then lets drop this crap of giving chance etc - let them demonstrate first. Check below posts what they are demonstrating:

Originally Posted by evo

Update on Skoda`s so called Waking Up

I still havent got written confirmation of what they told me on the phone- That they`ll repaint my car and replace the LCU.

I hope they now also have the decency to get me a spare key which I`ve been asking about for really long and to service the car.

But no written confirmation as yet.

Originally Posted by harishv

An exceptional case. Hmmmmm..... I wonder what could be so exceptional in my case. Let me think.......

IS IT EXCEPTIONAL BECAUSE.....

- a Skoda dealer was caught red handed with his hands in the jar?

- collusion between Skoda personnel and dealer lay exposed?

- Skoda had to shut down their first dealer?

- a lone individual stood up to a MNC conglomerate and bruised its ego?

Your dented ego got you all so exceptionally blinkered, that you behaved the way you did, with Team BHP.

- your internal document landed in the hands of the customer?

- this case saw the light of day by getting neatly exposed by the Press and on the World Wide Web?

- your disgraced dealer promptly starts a new venture with your ex- MD.

- the only defense you could manage is 'sub-judice'?

It is exceptional for SURE because it is very easy to figure out why Nummer Eins did what they did and very difficult to figure out what Skoda is doing?



Is it exceptional because your GM himself admits ki 'gandagi hain'?





Or is it exceptional since you find nothing exceptional in your dealer dealing in spurious parts?




GTO/MODS

It would be a great experience to see exceptional skeletons come tumbling out of the Skoda closet.

Tell you what Mr. Ramesh.

THIS CASE IS EXCEPTIONAL because I hold YOU personally responsible for jeopardizing the lives of my family and me.

Originally Posted by rajiv.kulkarni

I too hope that they leave soon, however they will NOT go back UNLESS the CONSUMER teaches them a lesson which they will not forget in their life time. Its high time the end user gets affirmative and demands service rather than being at the mercy of the DEALERS and such spurious manufacturers.

Originally Posted by amit

Normally for an auto enthusiast, any car maker that exits our market isnt something to be happy out. As it is we have very few car brands avaliable in our market. Unfortunately, I hope Skoda packs their bags and goes back.

[harishv]

Originally Posted by Theyota

Harish,
Have you contacted the trade unions of Skoda and VW? Skoda has OS KOVO as trade union and VW has IG Metall.

Lets take this game of gilli-danda to their turf. its about time they closed your case.

Hey thanks Theyota. How would that help?

Originally Posted by sudev

As you can see this is what he posted right at start. Their appeal tactic is why the case is stuck up. I would approach the case at consumer forum for final disposal. The interim order is stayed but is also the proceeding at lower court stayed??

No sudev. The proceeding in the lower court is on. Next date 22nd April

Originally Posted by blacmagic

Raveendra, that second sentence should be nowhere. absolutely nowhere.
the dealer and the service center operates with the company's blessing.
the company itself assures people that they will receive the best possible service at the authorized service center. the company even goes so far as to say that if you get so much as a bolt opened outside a service center, you WILL lose your warranty and be ostracized - irrespective of how good the other guy is.
so how can a company wash its hands off all responsibility - 6 pt or invisible ink - when the same endorsed service center makes mischief?

Originally Posted by blacmagic

no they should not. and certainly not in fine print. if they need to have that statement, it should be in big bold letters so that customers dont go to dealers with the false sense of assurance provided by the company's backing.
if you don't want to take responsibility for the dealership's actions, you SHOULD NOT endorse them in any way whatsoever, let alone accept money from them.
if a company is not responsible for stuff you get done at a non-authorized service center, and is not responsible for stuff you get done at an authorized service center, can I know what exactly a company is responsible for?

One hundred percent. We go to this dealer because he is authorized by the company to be his representative. Absolutely right you are, blacmagic.

blacmagic, greenhorn, Sam, Vahaan, veluM, Teefosi, Kashish, samyak and the Team - Thanx

[sudev]

Originally Posted by harishv

No sudev. The proceeding in the lower court is on. Next date 22nd April

Wishing you best for your date 8-)
Sorry for the pun but hope it cheers you up!

Why is the consumer court taking so long? Has the sate forum stayed proceedings here? If not then you need to get in touch with local consumer forum activist and see how the court can be moved to give final order. AFAIK the law lays down a 90 day period for giving final order from date of petition. And the consumer courts have much wider powers than regular courts to the extent that they can cut down on typical delay tactics employed by respondent lawyers.

[opendro]

When I forwarded this thread to some of my friends and the intimation thread from Skoda, my friend was asking why team-bhp is still keeping Skoda as a logo in the header part of every page. May be it should be removed if we want to show Skoda and the affected customers that we do our bit. Just a thought.

[amit_mechengg]

Harish
Please take a print out of all the relevant posts. enlarge the font for the court judges too see them properly.
show them the 100 cases of fraud by skoda. prepare a report on this.
i think this will help u on 22nd APRIL.
i wish u success, all the best

[harishv]

Originally Posted by amit_mechengg

Harish
Please take a print out of all the relevant posts. enlarge the font for the court judges too see them properly.
show them the 100 cases of fraud by skoda. prepare a report on this.
i think this will help u on 22nd APRIL.
i wish u success, all the best

amit - Was coming to that. How can one take a print out of an individual post? can you assist?

[bblost]

You can do this in any browser that opens multiple tabs. Like Chrome/ Firefox.

Click the middle button of the mouse on the post number printed on the top right corner of the post. That will open that link in a new window.
Notice the -post566 in the below url
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/1259360-post566.html

Print the pages.

[amit_mechengg]

harish,
do as per bblogs directions, click on the number near permalink, open in new page and then print. browse through the thread well and take all positive post.

[harishv]

thanks bblost, amit. got it. started printing already.

[VahanPujari]

Originally Posted by YC.BALENO.CHD

It all reminded me of an incident almost 8 years old.I was too young to remember it in detail but here is how it went.We had a '97 M800 as a regular car,we were based at dehradun and had to travel to delhi.During the trip,the car developed strange sounds from front wheels.The car had run 50k then.We gave the car to a MASS at Noida and the disk pads had to be replaced.Dad had to go to Hyderabad for a 7 day seminar and so we took back the car after around 8 days.The car seemed fine then but during our journey back to home the car seemed to lose pick up.Dad got the car checked at Dehradun (at our local mechanic) and it was found that some part had been replaced by a defective one and M-SEAL used to make it work temporarily.I dont remember what part it was,but as the mechanic told it usually takes a day to replace it and for the M-SEAL to get solidified it must have been done at NOIDA only.Dad consulted the MASS at dehradun and they were of same opinion.
Dad got quite agitated and as we were about to buy an ESTEEM at that time,the decision was put on hold and dad wrote to MUL.Within a week they called and told that an engineer would call and we may fix an appointment with him.True to their words,two people came,inspected the car,listened to our theory,took the car for further inspection,brought it back in the evening and said that it was MASS,NOIDA's fault.
In the next ten days,the local MASS took our car,changed the part,gave a free wash,and when the car was delivered back,its petrol tank was full,i.e.atleast 20 litres of free petrol and also he gave two coupons for free service.All that for a 4 year old entry-level car.Soon after a letter from MUL followed with an apology and a statement that they have taken necessary action against MASS,NOIDA.
Impressed by it,we did buy an esteem soon after,and the 4 vehicles we have are all from maruti. (800,esteem,baleno,sx4).
Now as i reflect back,i think how apologetic MUL was,at a time when the competition was not much and it was just an old M800.

And then we have this horrifying tale(s) from a 'luxury' car manufacturer.
Sure,dealer indulging in malpractice isn't surprising,what is surprising is the fact that instead of being apologetic,they cover up their dealers fault and harrass customer and 'threaten' people here.Is skoda being operated by a bunch of school going kids? The way they portray their professionalism or the lack of it,surely denotes to it.
Its time the 'luxury' car manufacturer should learn from 'people's' car maufacturer.

Sorry for the lengthy post mates,thought i should share the incident.

Regards

Now See, Raavendrra. This is called Manufacturer stepping in & ensuring good service. Is Skoda doing even 1% of this?