[Muski]

I think the fact being missed here is how most crashes happen. Head on collisions (with both drivers not applying breaks) is rare. In most cases, relative speed of both vehicles is down considerably, due to better breaks, ABS etc now a days. Now as long as the relative speed is anything less than 60kmph, crash tests do hold up. For lighter vehicles, things are bad due to simple physics, but then, light vehicles are not supposed to driven hard, I personally never drive my etios really hard simply because it doesn't inspire that confidence (compared to say my uncles Vento)

Now as the car (Etios) has excellent breaks, even a 2 second hard breaking brings speed down from 100 to early30's. Add to that 4star safety with abs, airbags, I feel pretty safe in it. But I know that if I go head to head against say a Punto, my chances not as good. Hence, I prefer not to cross 3 digits unless it's an open road. This sedate style is imo another tax (entertainment?) you pay for buying a light car. But high speeds in a light car are very very risky.

[asit.kulkarni93]

Originally Posted by The AG 6167

http://epaperbeta.timesofindia.com/A...07122015001042

You seriously can't judge a car's safety by looking at random accident pics. I can show you pics of an S-Class or a 7-series where people have died. So going by your logic even those cars are unsafe? Did you analyze aspects like speed, how the whole accident took place, at what speeds and if all the passengers were belted or not?
Pls stick to the standard safety measures which are the crash test safety ratings.

[sandeepmdas]

Originally Posted by The AG 6167

Thank you for your comments, I would like to bring the fact to your notice that even if your car has scored 5 stars in a crash test it would mean worthless if it were to be hit by a heavier car so weight of metal does matter.

This is an image of a brand new Ameo/Polo that has crashed yesterday in Kerala; collided with a truck, but both passengers - 2 young ladies, siblings - walked out totally unhurt.

Source (in Malayalam):
http://www.mathrubhumi.com/ernakulam...alam-1.1864195

[ashishrathi88]

I would like to share one of the important points that I explain to my Sales people regarding Vehicle Safety.

Let's take the Example of Creta.

Now Creta comes with a body structure called "Hive" much like what Honda calls as ACE/G-CON".

Post a collision, the car might look out of proportion and completely damaged but it's important to know that the body structure and crumple zones had done their work in keeping the passenger bay safe and unharmed thought the car had taken all the hit.

At the end what matters the most is human life!

[The AG 6167]

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

You seriously can't judge a car's safety by looking at random accident pics. I can show you pics of an S-Class or a 7-series where people have died. So going by your logic even those cars are unsafe? Did you analyze aspects like speed, how the whole accident took place, at what speeds and if all the passengers were belted or not?
Pls stick to the standard safety measures which are the crash test safety ratings.

Asit you have not read my first post on this thread and apparantly all of you including reignofchaos has just read the first point of weight. All 9 points which include crumple zones, weight, safety features, ground clearance, handling, driver, etc. COMBINED TOGETHER work to make a car safe. Please stop misinterpreting my posts as I am not saying that just the weight makes a car safe. It is only one very important factor adding to safety which should not be ignored.

Also Team BHP is an open forum for discussion. By gods' grace neither you nor me have been in this sort of a crash to comment what the real scenario would be so how can you insist on the information provided by me to be misleading even without having read my post thoroughly?

[antz.bin]

I hope during the 3 star vs 5 star collision discussion, this fact is being taken into account.

https://youtu.be/-W937NM11o8

[i_see]

My contribution towards the discussion

https://youtu.be/ExQUGk12S8U

[ajayr]

Can we conclude that weight of the car IS a factor contributing to safety, much like presence of airbags, ABS etc.? If so, shouldn't crash test ratings also give (or take) points based on the weight of the car similar to how some crash tests give a zero star rating if there are no airbags?

[SlowRider]

Originally Posted by ajayr

Can we conclude that weight of the car IS a factor contributing to safety, much like presence of airbags, ABS etc.? If so, shouldn't crash test ratings also give (or take) points based on the weight of the car similar to how some crash tests give a zero star rating if there are no airbags?

If the weight of the car does indeed improve the survivability of its occupants, I reckon that has already been factored into the crash test results, and consequently, its star rating. I'm not sure it makes sense to count it twice.

Also, in defence of lighter vehicles, they're easier to stop and manouvre out of harm's way. It may well be that the speeds at which you crash is lower in a lighter car compared to a heavier one, all else being constant.

[jetti]

Originally Posted by The AG 6167

1.weight, its simple physics, a heavier car would have more momentum at the same speed than the lighter car which means that the impact of the crash on the heavier car would be lower due to a smaller counter force. For example - if maruti baleno (890kg) hits an elite i20 (1066kg) both travelling at the crash test speed of 64 km/hr then the baleno would crumple much more than the i20 because the i20 would carry a momentum (19,188 N) 20% higher than the baleno (16,020 N) taking the counter force on the baleno higher than what it has been crash tested for while the counter force on the i20 would be lower than what it has been crash tested for.
...

I was sceptical about this point, until I saw this:

Originally Posted by i_see

My contribution towards the discussion

This video describes very well what I think is the point you're trying to make.

At the same time, a car getting more points in a crash test also means that the passenger cabin is stronger. Light car with more stars will still be better than light car with 0 stars.
Only weight will not save anyone if the passenger cabin collapses. Nor will weight help if the crumple zone is not much.
So, both things matter is my conclusion.

[asit.kulkarni93]

Originally Posted by The AG 6167

Asit you have not read my first post on this thread and apparantly all of you including reignofchaos has just read the first point of weight. All 9 points which include crumple zones, weight, safety features, ground clearance, handling, driver, etc. COMBINED TOGETHER work to make a car safe. Please stop misinterpreting my posts as I am not saying that just the weight makes a car safe. It is only one very important factor adding to safety which should not be ignored.



Also Team BHP is an open forum for discussion. By gods' grace neither you nor me have been in this sort of a crash to comment what the real scenario would be so how can you insist on the information provided by me to be misleading even without having read my post thoroughly?

Sorry but I haven't misinterpreted any Information. Pls scroll through your posts you were bringing in posts related to a road accident which you haven't witnessed. It was just a news article. Without knowing the fact if the passengers were belted or not & judging a car by the intensity of the damage it has taken is pretty ridiculous. I have read all the points you have mentioned, maybe you are contradicting yourself when you emphasize on weight and then mention crumple zones and then give an example of how an Etios won't survive in a crash. When people say a safe car they mean the passengers remain safe during a crash. A lighter car with crumple zones will keep its passengers safe. That's the point. No amount of calculations presented by you can defy that.

[i_see]

Originally Posted by jetti

At the same time, a car getting more points in a crash test also means that the passenger cabin is stronger. Light car with more stars will still be better than light car with 0 stars.
Only weight will not save anyone if the passenger cabin collapses. Nor will weight help if the crumple zone is not much.
So, both things matter is my conclusion.

What I have understood till now is that a 1xxx Kg 4 star rated car is safer than a 8XX Kg 4 star rated car when they collide with each other

When crash testing is done, the rating gives survival % when that car crashes with another identical/ similar car, that is same build , weight and class. But when say a 800 + Kg hatchback crashes with another hatchback weighing 1000+ Kg, the heavier car has an advantage as it is built to withstand higher forces in a crash ( again assuming both cars have equal star rating in crash test )

[for_cars1]

Originally Posted by The AG 6167

....crumple zones, weight, safety features, ground clearance, handling, driver, etc. COMBINED TOGETHER work to make a car safe.

Originally Posted by jetti

...a car getting more points in a crash test also means that the passenger cabin is stronger.

.... Only weight will not save anyone if the passenger cabin collapses. .

Originally Posted by asit.kulkarni93

..... Without knowing the fact if the passengers were belted or not & judging a car by the intensity of the damage it has taken is pretty ridiculous.
....When people say a safe car they mean the passengers remain safe during a crash..

All of above statements are valid to ensure the final safety goal of an automobile:

The goal to avoid an accident in the first place by providing the best Active Safety Features (Handling, stopping power with traction, ergonomic design, better visibility) and in the event of a collision, provide the best Passive Safety Features (Passenger cabin rigidity, crumple zones, seat belts, proper head restraints, airbags) to minimize to the best possible extent, injuries to the occupants.

With technology advancements and increasing safety awareness, cars are getting safer, however due to lax safety Govt regulations in India, manufacturers can get away by compromizing on active and passive safety features for Indian market cars in order to increase their profits.

We as customers should start demanding only crash test certified cars for India and refrain from buying compromized models. The situation is definitely improving thankfully and we now atleast have a better choice of selecting safer cars compared to before.

The more crash test videos I watch, it becomes apparent that side curtain airbags is the most critical safety feature that can save the head from banging into the pillars or an intruding external object in a collision. It should be made mandatory in all cars. My vote for India's safest cars would go for the ones that come with curtain airbags.

Another glaring safety aspect that is skimped for Indian bound cars is the removing of rear head restraints for the rear middle occupant and also replacing the proper head restraints that should be upto the eye level with a low flimsy integrated head rest just to save a few bucks. Not at all acceptable. With these flimsy headrests or lack of it for the middle passenger, even a low speed rear end collision would result in a critical neck whiplash injury. Manufacturers can't take India for granted. Please provide proper headrests for all occupants

[Simhi]

Originally Posted by for_cars1

It should be made mandatory in all cars. My vote for India's safest cars would go for the ones that come with curtain airbags.

I would also request you to add one more feature to your list - Electronic Stability Control. An interesting thread covering this safety feature - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...dian-cars.html

[for_cars1]

Originally Posted by Simhi

.. Electronic Stability Control. An interesting thread covering this safety feature..

Agreed ESP is a very useful feature that enhances safety

In fact all safety feature ABS, EBD, Traction control, ESP, better headlights, steering feedback etc., incrementally makes the car safer. Every feature has its own undeniable importance that enhances safety.

The point I was trying to make is even if a car has all safety features, it is critical not to miss out on Airbags (these days most cars come with front airbags) especially curtain airbags are essential to minimize head injuries which is a high risk which needs to be protected in a collision.
Curtain airbags need to be made standard equipment even in cars that are built to a cost.