[carwatcher]

If you look seriously, the safest cars in India are the ones which are currently standing in the Parking lot.

Then the second best are the ones with Deity's statue inside.

Third ones that have Bull bars fixed on them at the front and back.

Next ones are those having 5-Star rating stickers earned by their foreign brethren.

One more category of cars with guaranteed safety are the ones having plates mentioning President of some political outfit, Lawyer, Police, PRESS, Govt. Employee, etc.

If you are talking about occupant's safety or pedestrian safety then they shall be the ones which will be rated by a competent agency which looks like sometime in 2017 if Govt. is to be believed.

Rest all is guesswork IMHO.

[Doge]

Originally Posted by JediKnight

The 2014 Honda City has the highest safety rating of any car in ASEAN NCAP crash tests. This has been discussed here: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...ata-vista.html

The indian Honda city is actually one of the last cars you want if you're obsessed with safety. The City in India has received some major chassis stress members cut, especially in the rear. I think its the unsafest car in its class actually.

[outdoorlover]

Originally Posted by Doge

The indian Honda city is actually one of the last cars you want if you're obsessed with safety. The City in India has received some major chassis stress members cut, especially in the rear. I think its the unsafest car in its class actually.

Can you please elaborate on any credible source of your observation of some "major chassis stress members cut". Thanks in advance.

[Doge]

Originally Posted by outdoorlover

Can you please elaborate on any credible source of your observation of some "major chassis stress members cut". Thanks in advance.

My car had a minor impact a year back( 2012 City). This impact may have been minor but the car crumpled like a piece of foil where as the car which hit it( XUV) had a broken tail light.
I spoke to someone in the body shop and I was told that honda has removed a few major components from the chassis to make their cars lighter( read more FE) from third gen on wards. Safety was one of the areas where I thought that the City is excellent but please take those Thai videos with a pinch of salt. This may seem to be like "bro science" but I will never recommend a Honda to anyone and will sell this tin can soon.

[pratyush6]

Originally Posted by .Albatross.

Cars from Ford, Skoda, VW and Fiat are relatively safer in sub 12 lakhs segment. This belief is based solely on evaluating the damage caused to the car occupants and the car after an accident of an equal intensity.!

I'd agree with this. Whenever someone asks me which car to buy - I'd be like pick out of these companies - Ford, Fiat, VW & Skoda. Well you can go higher but most of us with a budget of 10-12 have only those options. And I am completely fine with paying a premium (even when it shouldn't cost that much) for extra safety features.

Some of the cars that tout mileage as their USP - No offense but I checked out the Celerio - I was aghast at how could someone even conjure that up? It looked as if the doors were made of tin foil.

Yes, the above mentioned car won't give me the best bang for the buck, but ultimately, I drive because I want to commute safe and not fast.

[carwatcher]

You are missing one crucial point vehemently argued on TBhp in defense of Honda that the car is designed like that. It is supposed to crumble in the interest of Pedestrian safety.
I am confused as to this is entirely correct reason or a justification.

Also one incident comes to my mind when some relative of Fardeen Khan died in Delhi in a road accident while sitting on the rear seat and was hit by Swift or Dzire from the rear. Mind you the City isn't a hatch.

Originally Posted by Doge

My car had a minor impact a year back( 2012 City). This impact may have been minor but the car crumpled like a piece of foil where as the car which hit it( XUV) had a broken tail light.
I spoke to someone in the body shop and I was told that honda has removed a few major components from the chassis to make their cars lighter( read more FE) from third gen on wards. Safety was one of the areas where I thought that the City is excellent but please take those Thai videos with a pinch of salt. This may seem to be like "bro science" but I will never recommend a Honda to anyone and will sell this tin can soon.

[sun_king]

Originally Posted by Doge

<snip>
I spoke to someone in the body shop and I was told that honda has removed a few major components from the chassis to make their cars lighter( read more FE) from third gen on wards. Safety was one of the areas where I thought that the City is excellent but please take those Thai videos with a pinch of salt.

With all due respects, showroom and workshop folks go creative when you ask them a difficult question. (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...alerships.html). It does not mean that they are right.

I did a quick check, 2007 City ZX weighed 1070 kg, 2012 NHC V is 1100 kg. I am not pointing out to an actual 30 kg weight increase between two comparable models, but just stating that no massive weight gains occurred between these models.

And statements like "has removed a few major components from the chassis to make their cars lighter" are the ones that need a bigger pinch of salt. Usually minor components are removed, major ones are retained for obvious reasons!

This may seem to be like "bro science" but I will never recommend a Honda to anyone and will sell this tin can soon.

The Honda's front is designed to mitigate pedestrian injury and hence is expected to deform severely on frontal impact. It is by design. This need not translate to reduced protection for the occupants. I'd be proud to say that I'd rather have this feature than a bull bar that can rip open a concrete pillar.

[outdoorlover]

I think we continue equating metal weight with car safety. This has to change as technology has moved. If this were true, TATA and Mahindra would've topped all NCAP test ratings! The type of high tensile steel used, design and execution of impact absorbing crumple zones etc are meant to reduce damage to occupants as well as pedestrians.

Of course, it is another matter that there have been no standards or mandates in India on what is required for safety starting with airbags, abs, ebd, minimum NCAP rating etc and hence you find even global major like Renault launching cars like their Datsun distancing the Renault-Nissan name from the unsafe products that they're releasing in the Indian market which would never have been accepted in their own countries. They even went to the extent of creating a bench seat in the front for their first launch prompting some folks to use that as a child seat! But this post is not about blaming them but about our own lo safety consciousness which is coupled with the lax safety norms required by law.

[Ragavsr]

Originally Posted by outdoorlover

I think we continue equating metal weight with car safety. This has to change as technology has moved. If this were true, TATA and Mahindra would've topped all NCAP test ratings!

No one is equating metal weight with safety. It just happens that the safest vehicles with respect to build quality like Ford, Fiat , VW,Skoda are heavier.

Honda fans should stop talking collapsing sheetmetal as a safety feature because every modern xar has that.

As a bonus , Honda also gives a car whose passenger cabin also collapses in an accident.

If Honda can build a light weight car where the passenger shell is not compromised, then we can then talk.

[outdoorlover]

Originally Posted by Ragavsr

That doesn't mean the Indian Honda City is safe. The Indian Honda City has only 2 airbags and has numerous structural components deleted in the name of cost cutting. I would say its among the unsafe cars given how much damage to passengers have suffered in crashes of comparable intensity in which the Euro/Yank cars have been safe and protected the passengers.

"Numerous structural components deleted in the name of cost cutting" : do you have anything factual to prove such a statement ?

[Ragavsr]

Originally Posted by outdoorlover

"Numerous structural components deleted in the name of cost cutting" : do you have anything factual to prove such a statement ?

Asking for proof won't end this. Do you have any factual proof to show that all the structural components of US and EU Honda cars are present in Indian Hondas as well?

In the absence of real evidence, corroborative evidence is there for everyone to see. Skoda ,VW,Fiat and Ford have numerous examples of surviving horrific crashes.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...y-vw-polo.html

Japanese cars control 80% market share . They will be involved in even a greater share of accidents in sheer numbers. But why aren't we hearing examples. Probably, the occupants are not surviving horrific crashes to tell the tale.

You might own a Honda but you have to accept the fact that Honda is selling compromised cars in India.

Fixing even six airbags on a structurally weak cars will not help.

[suresh_gs]

Folks

I own a Hyundai Santro Xing. Any thoughts on the safety aspects of this car??

[Ragavsr]

Originally Posted by carwatcher

You are missing one crucial point vehemently argued on TBhp in defense of Honda that the car is designed like that. It is supposed to crumble in the interest of Pedestrian safety.
I am confused as to this is entirely correct reason or a justification.

Also one incident comes to my mind when some relative of Fardeen Khan died in Delhi in a road accident while sitting on the rear seat and was hit by Swift or Dzire from the rear. Mind you the City isn't a hatch.

Pedestrian safety is dependent on the angle at which the car hits the pedestrian. That is why the EU cars' front ends are being redesigned to meet pedestrian safety standards.

The thin cost cut sheet metal have a low threshold speed at which they start crumbling. There is no need for the sheetmetal to crumble for 10kmph accidents to protect its occupants.

All modern cars have sheetmetal that crumble in accidents. Honda should stop advertising that as a feature.

The better built Euro/American cars don't have thin sheetmetal in the name of cost cutting seem to have higher threshold speeds say 30-40 kmph at which the sheetmetal starts crumbling.

Its a double bonus. The better built cars not only have a safer passenger shells but also suffer lesser damages in slow speed fender benders.

[Vik0728]

Originally Posted by suresh_gs

Folks

I own a Hyundai Santro Xing. Any thoughts on the safety aspects of this car??

Hey suresh, my first car was a Hyundai Santro Xing and have had loads of memories with this pocket rocket.

Coming to the safety aspect, well I am really unsure if it would even fare past 2 stars in today's NCAP ratings. In comparison to its 'The-Then' competitors, Santro was quite well built and put together.

But this offering from Hyundai never had airbags, ABS, EBD, etc. IMO its a good city car but probably not the safest around.

[Doge]

Originally Posted by sun_king

With all due respects, showroom and workshop folks go creative when you ask them a difficult question. (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...alerships.html). It does not mean that they are right.

I did a quick check, 2007 City ZX weighed 1070 kg, 2012 NHC V is 1100 kg. I am not pointing out to an actual 30 kg weight increase between two comparable models, but just stating that no massive weight gains occurred between these models.

And statements like "has removed a few major components from the chassis to make their cars lighter" are the ones that need a bigger pinch of salt. Usually minor components are removed, major ones are retained for obvious reasons!



The Honda's front is designed to mitigate pedestrian injury and hence is expected to deform severely on frontal impact. It is by design. This need not translate to reduced protection for the occupants. I'd be proud to say that I'd rather have this feature than a bull bar that can rip open a concrete pillar.

AFAIK, all modern cars are designed to absorb force of impact in an event of collision with a ped, not just Honda. All EU Ncap tested cars go through pedestrian impact tests and all 5 star cars are as safe for pedestrians as a Brio. This doesn't give them any excuse for the pathetic build quality. My cousin used to drive a Jazz in UK. The first thing she said when she got into my City was that why does my car feel so flimsy.
And why would you need pedestrian impact safety at the rear?

Originally Posted by outdoorlover

I think we continue equating metal weight with car safety. This has to change as technology has moved. If this were true, TATA and Mahindra would've topped all NCAP test ratings! The type of high tensile steel used, design and execution of impact absorbing crumple zones etc are meant to reduce damage to occupants as well as pedestrians. Pedestrian safety is ensured by designing cars in such a way that they don't harm humans if you run over them. The gauge of steel is one of the ways to do it but majority of it depends on the design.

Modern cars are getting heavier and the only reason is safety and emissions. The mahindra's are built in an old school way hence the hefty weight. For example, a F10 BMW 5 series is a lot heavier than a E39 even with a lot of aluminum in its body. Sadly the reverse is happening in India.

Originally Posted by outdoorlover

"Numerous structural components deleted in the name of cost cutting" : do you have anything factual to prove such a statement ?

No proof as of yet but my personal experience with this " G-Con" car has given me my benefit of doubt. Why don't you tour the body shop once? Might sound like "in the air advice" when we can't judge how hard was the hit but you will observe that these cars crumple too easily even if they have the so called crumple zones.

Originally Posted by carwatcher

You are missing one crucial point vehemently argued on TBhp in defense of Honda that the car is designed like that. It is supposed to crumble in the interest of Pedestrian safety.
I am confused as to this is entirely correct reason or a justification.

Also one incident comes to my mind when some relative of Fardeen Khan died in Delhi in a road accident while sitting on the rear seat and was hit by Swift or Dzire from the rear. Mind you the City isn't a hatch.

Already answered that ped safety thing before.
And that Fradeen Khan case isn't alone. I've come across a lot of 3rd Gen Ivtec's which have been squished from behind,mine included. I guess they have a natural tendency to turn into Jazz.

Originally Posted by Vik0728

Hey suresh, my first car was a Hyundai Santro Xing and have had loads of memories with this pocket rocket.

Coming to the safety aspect, well I am really unsure if it would even fare past 2 stars in today's NCAP ratings. In comparison to its 'The-Then' competitors, Santro was quite well built and put together.

But this offering from Hyundai never had airbags, ABS, EBD, etc. IMO its a good city car but probably not the safest around.

Safest car in that class was probably the Matiz as far as I remember.