[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Sort of selective amnasia ?? Scroll few posts back and see who brought in QA / Niggles / Safari and everything other then nano in this thread.

Nope - no amnesia at all. I posted (http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/2051183-post592.html) about Safari only in response to ACM's post about Safari having Airbags/ABS (no way relevant to this thread). I guess you are the one who needs to scroll back and check.

Every time something about Nano-fire was mentioned on this thread, we have had topic-diverting comments questioning one's patriotism, exhortation for Indians to buy Indian cars ala some Americans, pointing out an issue in Indian car being racist, failed US banks, Bhopal tragedy, Nuclear liability bill, Nano being India's pride, Singur, conspiracy by competition to burn the Nano, posters here being paid to post against Tata/Nano, collision resistance of cars, Toyota-recalls, allround disk-brakes in Aria, Sumo thread being related to this thread, expired potato chips etc etc etc. In short everything other than the topic in question.

[soccer]

Hey guys lets all cool down a bit. The fires causing a whole lot of heat.

On a more serious note, the QC of TM should be the burning issue here rather than a burning Nano. And not much has changed. The Test drive of the Top End Safari Dicor has convinced me of this. More of it on an another thread and another time.

God Bless.....

[airbender]

I asked a simple question last week. Why is that some members show interest only in nano fire thread when there are other cars catching fire too. The responce was:

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Like everyone else, I choose my threads based on what interests me, which is mostly small cars or sedans upto 10lakhs.

Then I asked about beat(there are a lot of such examples on this very thread) which was less than 2 months old which is a small car and is less than 10 lakhs. The responce was:

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

I don't own a Beat.

I guess you won't own a nano either.

For some reason tata related threads attarct the most attention when it is related to something not good. In a practicle, real world scenario if a car from X brand and y brand cathces fire both of them attract equal attention. Replace X or Y with tata the equation changes. This is something which happens very commonly in india. There might be ten incidents happening but only brainwash the public about one single incident and they would only remember that one incident. After sometime the public opinion is that only one incident happened. A very nice strategy working very well from centuries in india. If anyone tries to counter this they will be called names.

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by airbender

Why is that some members show interest only in nano fire thread when there are other cars catching fire too

Maybe because it is not a pattern with other cars like seen here and also because they are mostly not new cars. BTW, I really don't understand why you want to know what interests each member here. I would say it is really none of your business to keep asking why someone missed some thread or is posting on some other thread. Why not instead post something related to the thread ? I really fail to understand this curiosity. Do I question your choice of threads?

And when you quote me, it would help to quote in full. My response was not simply "I don't own a Beat". You wanted to know why a Beat-on-fire did not bother me and I replied

Originally Posted by sB

What is there to bother me ? I don't own a Beat. Also if instead of just 1 Beat catching fire, it were to become a repeat affair, then people would be wary.

AFAIK, there was 1 instance reported of a TD Beat catching fire. If this were to become a series, I am sure there will be a thread here like the nano-fire one.

Originally Posted by airbender

I guess you won't own a nano either.

Most probably not. And I am not sure what that has to do here - do I need to own a Nano to post here ?

[airbender]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Maybe because it is not a pattern with other cars like seen here and also because they are mostly not new cars. BTW, I really don't understand why you want to know what interests each member here. I would say it is really none of your business to keep asking why someone missed some thread or is posting on some other thread. Why not instead post something related to the thread ? I really fail to understand this curiosity. Do I question your choice of threads?

And when you quote me, it would help to quote in full. My response was not simply "I don't own a Beat". You wanted to know why a Beat-on-fire did not bother me and I replied

AFAIK, there was 1 instance reported of a TD Beat catching fire. If this were to become a series, I am sure there will be a thread here like the nano-fire one.

Most probably not. And I am not sure what that has to do here - do I need to own a Nano to post here ?

I was only quoting from what you posted. The beat was actually a new car. Coming to that pattern, no of beat's on roads is less than 1/3 of nano's on the street. There were other examples of test drive cars catching fire. But none of them are of interest. Even if a non-nano catches fire tommorow that's not a concern because if excuse no n.
When someone mentioned none died in nano fires and people were burned to death in honda city's you replied saying saying "does that mean you have to wait for someone to die in a nano". Can I use the same logic for beat also. It's clear from your own posts that you are interested in punching holes in only one brand.

3 out of 50000 nanos catching fire is not a design issue. Tata responded to the initial 2 incidents by replacing the faulted equipment. Now the third one happened. No one knows if the faulty equipment is replaced or not on the third one and tata said they are looking in to it. They have paid the buyer in full. Who else in the indian auto market has responded in such a way. How many of the other automakers even issued a statement on these things. What else is expected from Tata's?

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by airbender

When someone mentioned none died in nano fires and people were burned to death in honda city's you replied saying saying "does that mean you have to wait for someone to die in a nano".

I looked up the accidents thread and see 1 City-fire at Chennai where they are still speculating if it was actually a fire or a murder. Is that how the Nano fires were reported ?

Originally Posted by airbender

3 out of 50000 nanos catching fire is not a design issue. Tata responded to the initial 2 incidents by replacing the faulted equipment.

Even if we go by your hypothesis that it is not a design issue, but a faulty equipment issue, don't you think it is an issue that needs to be addressed? That's all anyone is saying here.

Let us look at it from another point of view. You have bought a new car in the states (whatever make) and are driving it home when it catches fire. Would you ignore that saying "Hey, it is just 1 in a million cars sold" or "It is OK because it is not a design issue, just a faulty part" ? Maybe you might, if we were in the age when Henry Ford was starting to assemble cars. Not today.

If my new car were to go up in flames, I am going to be royally pissed off, irrespective of the country of origin of the manufacturer. Especially when we have thousands of cars being delivered on a daily basis and none seem to catch fire.

[airbender]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

don't you think it is an issue that needs to be addressed?

Why do you think tata is not addressing the issue? They already issued a press statement in this regard and they are replacing the equipment in question. So what else do you expect from them. Did you see any other automaker doing the same. One member posted a link where hyundai didnot even pay the buyer for the damages.

I have never read any member saying fire is OK. Every one is expecting the issue to be taken care off and tata's are doing just that. But my only question is why give other automakers a free hand.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Even if we go by your hypothesis that it is not a design issue

You don't have to go by my hypothesis. If it is a design issue it won't be 3 out of 50000.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

I looked up the accidents thread and see 1 City-fire at Chennai where they are still speculating if it was actually a fire or a murder. Is that how the Nano fires were reported ?

Like it happens in an hollywood movie. It's not just the fire which is in question. The doors were locked and cannot be unlocked. This is not a single incident reported. If you care to read the thread completely you can read more. Every fire except that off nano is a conspiracy right.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

"Hey, it is just 1 in a million cars sold" or "It is OK because it is not a design issue, just a faulty part" ?

Can you please tell me which member or where does anyone say fire is OK? If you cannot answer this then you are manipulating the thread.

[supremeBaleno]

^^^
If you think other automakers are getting a free hand, please open a thread for those fires (if there is a pattern), so that it can be discussed there. Would help those that own the car or have gone through the ordeal by getting the cause the attention it deserves.

Regarding fire being OK, what do you think is implied by all those posts saying that %age of Nanos on fire is miniscule ? That it is not a big deal, I would think.

I just mentioned what members were discussing about the City fire. Neither did I post there, nor do I care if there is a conspiracy/crime angle. If you have a different viewpoint on that, please post it there. BTW, I did not know that conspiracy was only applicable to Nanos.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

^
I just mentioned what members were discussing about the City fire. Neither did I post there, nor do I care if there is a conspiracy/crime angle.

Once Honda has accepted the fire hazard in that particular model and issued recall ( albeit full 3 year late ) is there still room for a conspiracy theory in the Chennai and South Delhi fire incidences.
Important point is that Honda offered no independent probe or compensation for these cases in India and fire hazard recall was due to incidences outside India.They routinely state XYZ recall does not affect model sold in India but perhaps these two incidences where people died forced them to do so.

[airbender]

Well, you have not answered the main question:

Why do you think tata is not addressing the issue?

Everytime you get a chance you would say I would expect the issue to be adressed. What makes you think it's not addressed.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

^^^
Regarding fire being OK, what do you think is implied by all those posts saying that %age of Nanos on fire is miniscule ? That it is not a big deal, I would think.

I donot remember anyone saying or impliying fire is OK. If you think otherwise posts me some reference's. It's only when people say it's a design fault or a result of massive cost cutting we would respond saying if it is design fault or massive cost cutting why only 3 out of 50000. And you have been repeatedly manipulting that as saying fire is OK resulting in pressing the hot button by some people.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

I just mentioned what members were discussing about the City fire. Neither did I post there, nor do I care if there is a conspiracy/crime angle. If you have a different viewpoint on that, please post it there. BTW, I did not know that conspiracy was only applicable to Nanos.

Another senior member has answered this for you very nicely.


Don't really understand what some members like you are complaining about?

[supremeBaleno]

Are you implying that there is no cost-cutting in a made-to-price cheapest car in the world ? If no cost-cutting were involved, why do you think the part being replaced is faulty in the first place ?

References are many on this thread. You will find them if you look for it.

[airbender]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Are you implying that there is no cost-cutting in a made-to-price cheapest car in the world ? If no cost-cutting were involved, why do you think the part being replaced is faulty in the first place ?

References are many on this thread. You will find them if you look for it.

Classic example of how you escape answering questions. I am not saying there is no cost cutting(one more example of you manipulating my words). Even with the replaced part they have not raised the prices so no cost cutting there.

Well, why don't you answer those questions I have been asking you repeatedly.

1. Why do you think tata is not addressing the issue?
2. Can you post any reference's to any one saying fire is OK?

[CPH]

Originally Posted by airbender

Classic example of how you escape answering questions. I am not saying there is no cost cutting(one more example of you manipulating my words). Even with the replaced part they have not raised the prices so no cost cutting there.

Well, why don't you answer those questions I have been asking you repeatedly.

1. Why do you think tata is not addressing the issue?
2. Can you post any reference's to any one saying fire is OK?

I was doing the work for him looking for all the references:

There are 0 references!

Without trying to cut costs the Nano never would have become a reality. But this cost cutting was not cutting corners.

Cost cutting is done all the time by every company. Many companies cut corners on top of it. This is why the last CEO of Mitsubishi now serves 9 life sentences.

Why he thinks Tata is not addressing the issues is beyond anyone's reasoning with common sense.

When the three cases of smoke from the steering column happened Tata sacked the supplier and fitted a different make. This should be in anyone's book called addressing.

When the first incident happened different specilists were drawn in to investigate. After the other 2 incidents happened it was pointed to a raptured fuel line. The fuel lines are being changed.

What else are they supposed to do? I doubt we will get an answer to this question.

[rkg]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Are you implying that there is no cost-cutting in a made-to-price cheapest car in the world ? If no cost-cutting were involved, why do you think the part being replaced is faulty in the first place ?

References are many on this thread. You will find them if you look for it.

i10 also has fire incidents due to faulty/cheap fuel lines.

does that mean Hyundai has cut corners/made i10 to a cost. Does it make i10 a cheap car?

Did hyundai offered any compensation to the guy whose car is burnt, like TATA refunding entire amount in Nano fire cases

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by airbender

I am not saying there is no cost cutting(one more example of you manipulating my words). Even with the replaced part they have not raised the prices so no cost cutting there.

I wonder why you see manipulation in everything. If a company uses a poor-quality part that is not only not good enough for the job even in the initial days of the product, but also results in the product going up in flames, what do you think it is called other than cutting cost and corners ?

They put in a poor-quality part in the 1st place - poor enough to cause fire - and you are making a big deal of the fact that they did not raise prices when replacing something defective. Great. Glad you did not say that they are doing a favour to the customer by replacing the part.

Originally Posted by airbender

Why do you think tata is not addressing the issue?

As I understand it, they have posted 2 possible causes for the fire - of which the foreign-object in exhaust is kinda hazy - I doubt a car would catch fire due to that reason. About the other reason of bad quality fuel lines, are they recalling all cars that went out with that batch and replacing the lines? I think that would be addressing the problem. ie. if that indeed were the cause. Because earlier there were references to shor-circuit in steering column being the reason.

Originally Posted by CPH

I was doing the work for him looking for all the references:
There are 0 references!

Obviously, you are not good enough at what you do - try harder next time. See references below from this thread, which try to make light of the fire in the nanos. For starters, this was what you yourself had to say :

1.

Originally Posted by CPH

A handful cars you make a big fuss on things that have totally blown out of proportion, when not even anyone was hurt.

No one was hurt, so what is the big fuss about, right ?

2.

Originally Posted by CPH

And you are arguing over a handful of Nanos catching fire. No a single driver, passenger or pedestrian has been killed.

Another gem from you. Its just a handful of cars and again no one is killed. So big deal...

3.

Originally Posted by CPH

When you add up the odds the Nano doesn't fare all that badly. At least better than some much higher rated cars.

Yeah, odds are better than the Toyotas that had a sticky A-pedal - so whats the big deal about 6 cars on fire in 50K sold ?

4.

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

BTW, what is the percentage of burning Nanos vrs the Nanos delivered... .25%... does it justify such outcry in light of what is happening with almost all other manufacturers.

Yeah. Let us wait for more to burn before we raise the issue.

5.

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

BTW 4 Nanos out of (almost 25k units) delivered till date means 99.984% without the burning Nano syndrome. Isn't it enough to quell the fears of existing/prospective Nano owners?

Yeah, only 0.16% of cars have caught fear. What's the big deal ?

6.

Originally Posted by rajdoll

People who are mocking nano, specially indians, let me tell you there is more probability of you getting hurt on indian roads than getting some burns in a nano, if you check the statistics.

These are from just a few pages. And there are more in this thread itself.

BTW, while looking up these references for certain people who were insisting on seeing these, I stumbled upon this question by a tbhp-ian which seemed to have got lost in the pro and anti-Tata barrage.

Originally Posted by Ponmayilal

Can anyone cite a 100% similar burnout of any car straight out of the showroom and within hours? I am just curious.

I have read of various cars catching fire in Chennai newspapers, but none were new. Do we have instances of a brand-new car (as in just out of showroom - no mods) catching fire ?