[praveen_n]

This is turning out to be a thread between TATA bashers and TATA lovers and no more has and relevence to the NANO fire incident..
There is an issue with NANO and TATA seems to be addressing it.Lets wait for TATA's response on what the issue is.
I do not honestly believe its an issue due to cost cutting measures ..
This is a technical issue and I am sure TATA will find an answer to it.

[ACM]

Had signed off from the thread, but have one suggestion.

Praveen is right, this thread has now become all about TATA Lovers, vs TATA Bashers, rather than about the Nano.

TATA Lovers / neutral guys (if) - Airbender, CPH, Cardeep, Rajdool, Ponmayilal, praveen, and appologies to many of those who are missed out. A simple suggestion - lets not again and again mention the same +ve points to counter the -ve ones, if the points raised by you were not understood by the TATA Bashers the first time round then they won't be understood the second time round.

This thread is already under scrutiny by Moderators as indicated by the mods a few threads back and going a bit overboard could attract penalties.

There actually are no new points to discuss on the Nano Burning issues, and all have already stated out the pointers on the topic with many those feeling that the issue is being overblown and reacted to in the wrong manner.

By continually repeating the same (even if +ve / neutral for TATA) comment / points, one just effectively keeps bumping up the thread. Suggest that all sides take a step back if all points that we wished to mention are covered, there is not point served in repeating a point beyond once more.

A -ve comment can be easilty put in to counter a +ve one, but not if the guys making a +ve / neutral comment just sit back.

This is just to avoid us all clutting the thread. Hope the suggestion is seen in the right spirit by all. Let the extinguishers be out.

[CPH]

All your quotes do NOT state anywhere that anyone has made the point that the fires are okay.

The thread started with the question, whether it is an isolated incident or the norm.

It is NOT the norm that the Nano catches fire.

Whether the fuel lines were of poor quality has never been stated anywhere. Ever heard of rejects?

Any production line produces rejects. Despite quality control some of them slip through because of the human factor. Wrong handling, poor fitting, carelessness of the people handling the parts and are added problems. This is why every batch gets batch numbers to help identifying possible problems.

The quotes you made are with the intention to manipulate and are totally out of context in any way. The found results remain 0! Maybe it has got to do with with that the Baleno is supreme as well as the mentioned locations?

I would appreciate your comments if they were in line with other incidents. It seems to be fine that people burn to death because it is a Honda. No big deal. Honda knew about the problem for a long time. No big deal! No thread going over 600+ posts! Of course not, because it is not a Nano.

None of the cars that ever have been mentioned in connection with fire had as much attention as the Nano and been given that bad press in due course.

You have made accusations against Tata that aren't correct and hold them up without any proof. The truth is that Tata has done what needs to be done.

Tata would even have the right to sue you for compensation on deliberatedly misrepresenting their position, which also could affect the owner of this site.

You have failed to prove that the Nano is a car where corners were cut. 3 rejects out of 55,000 is not a faulty design.

The Nano is one of the cars with the least problems problems and makes it even more outstanding for the fact that it is the cheapest production car ever made.

Unfortunately the 3 fires happened and 3 incidents of smoke form faulty stalks, but the problems were addressed unlike other manufacturers who continued producing despite knowing the problems for years.

[Gansan]

Is it just me, or does it occur to anyone else that some people seem to have an attitude problem towards the Nano? They seem to resent the very concept of it, and look down upon it, especially since it is from the TATA stable. I wonder if they would view it through the same prism if it was from a more prominent (read foreign) auto maker?

The nano is not my cup of tea, but I wish it all success. The monthly sales figures are already at the 8K mark and will overhaul the Alto figures in the not so distant future. Agreed,the few fire cases made a lot of news due to the hype created at the time of launch of the Nano, but I feel TATA has addressed / is addressing the issue genuinely. IMO there is one quality that distinguishes the TATAs from a lot of other famous auto makers - Integrity.

I am reminded of an old Tamil adage which roughly translates as "if the mother-in-law breaks it, it is just a mud pot; let the daughter-in-law break the same one, it becomes a golden pot"!

[CARDEEP]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

4. Yeah. Let us wait for more to burn before we raise the issue.

5. Yeah, only 0.16% of cars have caught fear. What's the big deal ?

Thank you for waking me up from the slumber... but, hey I am no beat or demon, nor am I a hypocrite.

I am trying to support Tata, because of the concept, which in business terms is best for third world countries like India. Cheap & safe means of transport to families, & Nano is the perfect embodiment of this concept. My main reason for Tata support is the business idea, which the foreign companies never tried to undertake. Take my words (though I won't care if you that that you don't believe in me) that I am more of the businessman than a art (car) connoisseur to blindly support Tata.

In fact your favourite Maruti (which is no longer Indian since long back, FYIP), owned by Suzuki never tried to do this despite having all the facilities to do so (please read as Govt patronage & taxpayers money for no charges). It is only Ratan Tata who envisaged the world's cheapest car (he could do so because he had the vision or business sense, unlike Osamu Suzuki, who is sitting on his forefathers money looking to double it by extracting hefty royalty from profitable subsidiary (without the least concern for launching beat things in India). This is why he is amongst the most respected businessmen in the world.

Well regarding the points that you have quoted from my posts, I would point out that this is best case of selective amnesia, as you did not care to read the spirit of my posts (especially the last one), & quoted the above ones to defend your disregard for a wonderful business concept. There is no problem with criticising Tata Nana or Tata as a matter of fact, but the problem is with the way you & few others have criticised.
Let's take it personally, say if you create a software which has bugs or I file tax return that has few errors, what do you expect the client or any third person to do, to give you a chance to correct the same or chase you/me to beat/kill you/me. I have been critical but supportive like a family member, cause it is Indian & you have been critical like it is enemy, & made by Tata to kill your/my people.

I have tried to put across my points the way I am used to doing on a daily basis (numbers & consultancy). My question to you - are you trying to put across your point the way the way you are accustomed to work? To put it more precisely, have you tried to win over our minds by putting something in soft copy, or this is the way you work/live... picking up fights with fellows.

PARDON ME FOR BEING RUDE & HARSH, but it had to be for once. Probably good for our friendship or not, whatever you feel.

I request you to argue in a boardroom fashion not a street-fight way (remember the abuses Tata-sympathisers/fanboy, etc.) which is unprofessional. I too used such once for Gansan, & regret it till date (Sorry again Gansan).

[supremeBaleno]

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

Thank you for waking me up from the slumber...

Was not intentional - I tried my best (by delaying) to avoid posting references, but that was seen as avoiding answering a question. So had to ...

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

In fact your favourite Maruti (which is no longer Indian since long back, FYIP), owned by Suzuki never tried to do this despite having all the facilities to do so.

This is OT here and I really do not care what MSIL's business strategies are, as long as they give me a reliable car for the money I pay them.

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

There is no problem with criticising Tata Nana or Tata as a matter of fact, but the problem is with the way you & few others have criticised.

Maybe there is something wrong in the way you see it. Though it is a known fact that Tata cars are the worst when it comes to QC (and admitted by owners on this thread also), I never mentioned anything about that factor on this thread as it is not relevant to the topic, except as a response to someone bringing OT stuff to the discussion. I dont think I said anything about the business idea either which is also not the topic of this thread. I also dont remember saying that since 6 Nanos have caught fire, Tata should be crucified or boycotted or that they are the worst manufacturers. I never said people should be wary of buying a Nano due to the fire. All I said was the cause needs to be traced because this is not something that happens on new cars, addressed and there should be a discussion on this (which is obviously why someone created a thread for this) and not be treated as something that can be brushed under the carpet quoting %ages.

What wrong do you see in this viewpoint ? Or are you saying that because Nano is a bright business idea, we should not be discussing the fires in the cars which is not something that is the norm in new cars ? If that indeed were the general consensus, I am sure this thread would have been deleted by the mods.

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

I request you to argue in a boardroom fashion not a street-fight way (remember the abuses Tata-sympathisers/fanboy, etc.) which is unprofessional. I too used such once for Gansan, & regret it till date (Sorry again Gansan).

Funny. You are the one who called someone a fanboy and you also admit to the so-called "street-fight" behaviour. I dont remember calling anyone a Tata fanboy or sympathesiser and you say I was unprofessional. To put your own query back to you, is this the logic by which you work/live ?

Originally Posted by Gansan

Is it just me, or does it occur to anyone else that some people seem to have an attitude problem towards the Nano? They seem to resent the very concept of it, and look down upon it, especially since it is from the TATA stable. I wonder if they would view it through the same prism if it was from a more prominent (read foreign) auto maker? The nano is not my cup of tea, but I wish it all success.

Gansan, care to elaborate a bit on the "it is not my cup of tea" part which you repeat whenever Nano is mentioned ? So, it is like "you like the concept, the company is great, everything is good, you wish the Nano all success, but you dont want to be owning one". In short you won't put your money where your mouth is. Why ? Because you know what comes with it. I would think hypocrisy is a worse attitude than plainspeak.

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

My sincerest apologies to Gansan.

Originally Posted by CARDEEP

I too used such once for Gansan, & regret it till date (Sorry again Gansan).

Apologies accepted, though there was no need for that! I knew you wrote it in a lighter vein!

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Gansan, care to elaborate a bit on the "it is not my cup of tea" part which you repeat whenever Nano is mentioned ? So, it is like "you like the concept, the company is great, everything is good, you wish the Nano all success, but you dont want to be owning one". In short you won't put your money where your mouth is. Why ? Because you know what comes with it. I would think hypocrisy is a worse attitude than plainspeak.

Sure, and I had mentioned it long back. Two things put me off; the auto like exhaust note, and the visible engine+drive train that shake and vibrate like that of an Ape' auto, whenever the driver accelerates or eases off! That is why I said it is not my cup of tea, and would not hesitate to put my money on it if the Europa version hits our markets, or on any of their other models.

And by the way, polite language never hurt anyone. Being rude is not the same as plain speak!

Note from the Team-BHP Support Team : Please use "Multi Quote" option for quoting Multiple posts, instead of creating another back-to-back post.

[CARDEEP]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Maybe there is something wrong in the way you see it. Though it is a known fact that Tata cars are the worst when it comes to QC (and admitted by owners on this thread also), I never mentioned anything about that factor on this thread as it is not relevant to the topic, except as a response to someone bringing OT stuff to the discussion. I dont think I said anything about the business idea either which is also not the topic of this thread. I also dont remember saying that since 6 Nanos have caught fire, Tata should be crucified or boycotted or that they are the worst manufacturers. I never said people should be wary of buying a Nano due to the fire. All I said was the cause needs to be traced because this is not something that happens on new cars, addressed and there should be a discussion on this (which is obviously why someone created a thread for this) and not be treated as something that can be brushed under the carpet quoting %ages.

What wrong do you see in this viewpoint ? Or are you saying that because Nano is a bright business idea, we should not be discussing the fires in the cars which is not something that is the norm in new cars ? If that indeed were the general consensus, I am sure this thread would have been deleted by the mods.

Thank you for your prompt response. I agree there is nothing wrong in your view point, but, I see your posts as offensive to others, especially the regular ones. This is why I have requested you to tone down & put it in a manner you are having best knowledge of. You can be persuasive or can be a revolutionary (but, the latter won't have any cause)... inspired from movie heroes... .

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Funny. You are the one who called someone a fanboy and you also admit to the so-called "street-fight" behaviour. I dont remember calling anyone a Tata fanboy or sympathesiser and you say I was unprofessional. To put your own query back to you, is this the logic by which you work/live ?

Please note that I have done it once & regretted despite putting my views like you.
Many of your posts are deemed offensive by fellows... do you regret. Probably you need not do so, & same could have been applicable in my case, but there is some difference in our persona, you are aggressive, but, I am firm.

[nickatnite]

Hopefully, TATA Motors have rectified or identified the problem re: fires and compensated the affected equitably and put this matter to rest. With the new CEO, i'm assuming this would have been the normal course of action. The Nano is a great little car and can become the 'cult car' for India like the Beetle.

[gshanky]

Originally Posted by Gansan

Is it just me, or does it occur to anyone else that some people seem to have an attitude problem towards the Nano? They seem to resent the very concept of it, and look down upon it, especially since it is from the TATA stable. I wonder if they would view it through the same prism if it was from a more prominent (read foreign) auto maker?

I agree. These are the ones who IMO live in "Tirisanku Sorgam". These "some people" would like to consider the compact hatchbacks in A, A+ and B segments as exclusive and detest NANO because it provides a cheaper alternative and still offer better space and comparable ride. It is a pity still many people think that way.

Originally Posted by Gansan

The nano is not my cup of tea, but I wish it all success. The monthly sales figures are already at the 8K mark and will overhaul the Alto figures in the not so distant future. Agreed,the few fire cases made a lot of news due to the hype created at the time of launch of the Nano, but I feel TATA has addressed / is addressing the issue genuinely. IMO there is one quality that distinguishes the TATAs from a lot of other famous auto makers - Integrity.

Well, IMO for the price it is still a very good deal. If the petrol version has these vibrations, I wonder how the diesel version would be? Hope TML has a solution for that. They need to be constantly innovating to have NANO successfully compete in global markets.

Originally Posted by Gansan

I am reminded of an old Tamil adage which roughly translates as "if the mother-in-law breaks it, it is just a mud pot; let the daughter-in-law break the same one, it becomes a golden pot"!

Haha. Well said. This is just an attitude problem and only way for TML to convince these folks is to keep delivering high quality cars.

[airbender]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

About the other reason of bad quality fuel lines, are they recalling all cars that went out with that batch and replacing the lines? I think that would be addressing the problem. ie. if that indeed were the cause. Because earlier there were references to shor-circuit in steering column being the reason.

Dealers are calling all the customers and replacing the faulty part. One member owning a nano also talked about it on this thread. Now atleast you won't say "I expect the issue to be addressed". THe short-circuit in the steering column is altogether a different issue and OT here.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

If a company uses a poor-quality part that is not only not good enough for the job even in the initial days of the product, but also results in the product going up in flames, what do you think it is called other than cutting cost and corners ?

Another member has already answered this.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

See references below from this thread, which try to make light of the fire in the nanos.

None of the references you quoted say fire is OK because it's 3 out of 50or55K. They only wanted to say it's not a norm.

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

I wonder why you see manipulation in everything.

Ofcourse you are manipulating the thread. One example.

"Hey, it is just 1 in a million cars sold" or "It is OK because it is not a design issue, just a faulty part" ?

No one said or implied this on this thread.

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by Gansan

Two things put me off; the auto like exhaust note, and the visible engine+drive train that shake and vibrate like that of an Ape' auto, whenever the driver accelerates or eases off! That is why I said it is not my cup of tea, and would not hesitate to put my money on it if the Europa version hits our markets, or on any of their other models.

Just one clarification about the highlighted part. This movement/vibration of the engine is what I observe while following the nano on my bike, and reminds me of what I can see while following the Ape' auto too. I do not mean to imply it is felt inside the car - I am yet to ride in / drive a nano. From what I have read in the review threads, it does not seem to be apparent from inside the car.

[chevelle]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

All I said was the cause needs to be traced because this is not something that happens on new cars, addressed and there should be a discussion on this (which is obviously why someone created a thread for this) and not be treated as something that can be brushed under the carpet quoting %ages.

Sorry to jump the gun. But i had to write this.

The other members have been trying to point this out to you since very long that TATA's are not sitting with their hands folded and are trying to trace the cause of fire in case of the last nano that went in flames.

For 2 nanos before that TATA already hired investigators and found out the reason and analysis has already posted on page 34 which i am sure you know. So i won't say they are brushing it under carpet.

And quoting percentages gives real time numbers which shows that its not present in every nano sold, which means it doesn't require large scale recall or term it as widespread defect. Still as a precaution/safety meausre, they are already replacing fuel lines under warranty which you can term as a recall if you want to, but i won't. Recall is something which i associate with what Toyota's did even though cars in India are not a part of it.

And if you don't believe in Figures and Percentages, i guess you don't see any point in the thread that comes up monthly on Car Sales Figures and Analysis.

Sorry for long post

OT: Didn't realize its my 500th post. Sorry SB it had to be like this.

[CPH]

Originally Posted by Gansan

Just one clarification about the highlighted part. This movement/vibration of the engine is what I observe while following the nano on my bike, and reminds me of what I can see while following the Ape' auto too. I do not mean to imply it is felt inside the car - I am yet to ride in / drive a nano. From what I have read in the review threads, it does not seem to be apparent from inside the car.

Be glad it does do this as otherwise with engine mounts too stiff it would tear the chassis apart in a few months.

[Gansan]

Originally Posted by CPH

Be glad it does do this as otherwise with engine mounts too stiff it would tear the chassis apart in a few months.

I will take your word for it and for all I know, even my car's engine might be having such movement under the bonnet while on the move. I was merely stating what I did not like and was not questioning any design feature!