2012 F1 - Circuit of the Americas

SilentEngine · 23rd November 2012, 00:23

Ferrari's decision may not be illegal, but certainly not one to be proud of.

The reason why none of the teams protested much was because none of the top teams (McLaren/RedBull mainly) were affected negatively by this. Hamilton/Vettel/Webber were already ahead of both Ferraris and Button was out of top 10.

Few seasons back (2005 or 2006 don't remember exactly) when we had 2 sessions of single lap qualifying there was one race where most of the drivers deliberately went slower (Schumi even went off the track) in first session because there was some rain expected later in the day. By going slower they wanted to ensure they ran their second lap before the rain arrived. It was not illegal, but certainly not in the best interest of the sport. FIA changed the qualifying system soon.

This is exactly like that. Not illegal, but not good for the sport. I hope FIA does something to stop this from happening in future.

anachronix · 23rd November 2012, 07:19

Damon Hill!?

He is the most nasty dirty wuss of Formula1! I often think he was the one who found Team orders in F1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykI39M27y10

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoombiee

How come we never saw such behavior from Damon Hill, Mika Hakkinen or Kimi Raikkonen? Havent heard any controversy involving Jensen Button either. All of them are world champions.

Hatari · 23rd November 2012, 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoombiee

How come we never saw such behavior from Damon Hill, Mika Hakkinen or Kimi Raikkonen? Havent heard any controversy involving Jensen Button either. All of them are world champions.

Anachronix has given you a nice a example of Damon's behaviour,
Mika.. You think DC had equal status?

At one race, when Mika qualified P1 and DC P2. They conveniently decided they would race only till the 1st corner of the 1st lap. They guy who came out in front would go on to win. Guess who has an advantage into turn 1, guy who's on Pole ofcourse!
Kimi.. he is a rockstar! "stop bothering me" is example enough!

Button, is the only Champion (ever in F1?) to admit he is slower than his team mate on most occasions - when car setup doesnt suit him 100%.
I dont see him ever being WDC again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jraj

Bahhh,how convenient.Thats the lame excuse given by Alonso supporters

Mclaren is the team that let Senna and Prost race.I guess Alonso is a nobody before them.Only if Alonso had made it a 2 race contest between him and Kimi,maybe he could have got the support from Mclaren.But to do that Alonso should have stayed ahead of his F1 debuting teammate throughout.

Coming back to Shangai 2006,yeah yeah,that I can understand.Fisichella was faster than Alonso and Michael was catching up Fisichella pretty fast.Eventually he did overtake them both.What could have Renault made in that situation - maybe asked Alonso to pit and as soon as he came out,they could have instructed Fisichella to crash just like they asked Piquet Jr to.Too bad that Fisichella wasnt a complete team player like Alonso and Piquet Jr

It is hilarious that you bring up Senna & Prost. That was the most tumultuous time McLaren have ever had! You think that situation is ideal? Where a team mate INTENTIONALLY takes the other out??

Remember, that happened 20 years ago, with minimum media intrusion. Today, with car radio esp, that would have been impossible.

Piquet Jr.. He's just tipped Alonso for the title.. and has great praise for the Spaniard
http://totalf1.com/full_story/view/4...claims_Piquet/

SilentEngine · 23rd November 2012, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatari

Piquet Jr.. He's just tipped Alonso for the title.. and has great praise for the Spaniard
http://totalf1.com/full_story/view/4...claims_Piquet/

Piquet Jr. Really?

Quote:

Piquet, who was Alonso’s teammate at Renault in 2008 and 2009, thinks that the 2012 Ferrari has been outclassed by the likes of Lotus and Sauber this season.

“The Ferrari is worse than those two, but sometimes a miracle is done because of Alonso.

I stopped reading after that.

Ferrari worse than Lotus and Sauber

Hatari · 23rd November 2012, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentEngine

Ferrari worse than Lotus and Sauber

Yeah.. for sure. Alonso would already be champion in a Lotus!

Harshal.Bhosale · 23rd November 2012, 18:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatari

Alonso would already be champion in a Lotus!

Seriously. Looking at the number of times Grosjean has manged to spoil his potentially-good races this year, Alonso in his place, or in a similar car would've had the title in his kitty long back. Not to mention the close encounters he and Kimi would've had!

StarrySky · 23rd November 2012, 18:18

Let's not forget that Alonso had the best or equal-best car and a rookie team-mate in 2007 and did not win the title.

anachronix · 23rd November 2012, 18:36

With a boss that said "We weren't racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando."

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarrySky

Let's not forget that Alonso had the best or equal-best car and a rookie team-mate in 2007 and did not win the title.

Try and get over this folks, its in the rule books and Ferrari used it. With a fast car any team has the luxury to workout their own strategy for sunday, with a slow car you got to work around it on sundays. They did it as a team, Massa is fine and I dont know why you folks have a problem. This has been Formula1 for so many years. Feel free to watch a different sport if you want something clean & tidy! No team is clean in Formula1, let me know if you have any team you think that is an angel in disguise.

zoombiee · 23rd November 2012, 19:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by anachronix

With a boss that said "We weren't racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando."

Try and get over this folks, its in the rule books and Ferrari used it. With a fast car any team has the luxury to workout their own strategy for sunday, with a slow car you got to work around it on sundays. They did it as a team, Massa is fine and I dont know why you folks have a problem. This has been Formula1 for so many years. Feel free to watch a different sport if you want something clean & tidy! No team is clean in Formula1, let me know if you have any team you think that is an angel in disguise.

Then whats the problem with accepting what was done was unethical and unsportsman like. Thats what everyone is trying to point out. Others are equally bad thats agreed, but what happened at COTAS was bad.

StarrySky · 23rd November 2012, 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by anachronix

With a boss that said "We weren't racing Kimi, we were basically racing Fernando."

Remind me, did he say that at the first race of the season or before the last race of the season after Alonso's relationship with the team had broken down? Going into the last race, Alonso indeed was Lewis' closest competitor with Kimi being 7 points down with only 10 points available for the win.

It would've been so much simpler for Alonso if he could comfortably beat his rookie team-mate from the outset and give himself the upper hand in the team, but alas!

anachronix · 23rd November 2012, 23:22

I say it again, its not an uncommon thing in F1. Lets move on!

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoombiee

Then whats the problem with accepting what was done was unethical and unsportsman like. Thats what everyone is trying to point out. Others are equally bad thats agreed, but what happened at COTAS was bad.

Is this thread about the first race of 2012!?

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarrySky

Remind me, did he say that at the first race of the season or before the last race of the season after Alonso's relationship with the team had broken down? Going into the last race, Alonso indeed was Lewis' closest competitor with Kimi being 7 points down with only 10 points available for the win.

SilentEngine · 24th November 2012, 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatari

Yeah.. for sure. Alonso would already be champion in a Lotus!

That's hypothetical, Let him win first in a Ferrari.

Harshal.Bhosale · 24th November 2012, 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentEngine

That's hypothetical, Let him win first in a Ferrari.

Car-to-car, one has to agree that the Lotus this year had a lot of potential. Kimi showed us that. Their car was distinctly better than the F2012. Hence the statement.

asr245 · 24th November 2012, 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by zoombiee

Then whats the problem with accepting what was done was unethical and unsportsman like. Thats what everyone is trying to point out. Others are equally bad thats agreed, but what happened at COTAS was bad.

My problem here is that it was the track condition which lead Ferrari to do what they did. Sure at every track drivers prefer to be on the clean side, but the difference here was quite big. Perhaps so big that drivers on dirty side probably would have preferred to be on the clean side even if it meant it was one place behind. So for me, difference between clean side and dirty side was the cause of this behaviour. But I don't see anyone blaming the track. It's just Ferrari who cheat (I will admit their reputation is not amongst the best even for F1).

FIA probably needs to add some rules for to prevent the cause and the effect.

StarrySky · 24th November 2012, 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harshal.Bhosale

Car-to-car, one has to agree that the Lotus this year had a lot of potential. Kimi showed us that.

Yes. No doubt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harshal.Bhosale

Their car was distinctly better than the F2012.

From the first two sentences to this is a huge leap of faith.

I would say there were a few races in the beginning of the year where the Lotus may have been a better car than Ferrari. But overall, I think, in a Lotus, Alonso would've been further behind Vettel at this stage of the season. Simply because Lotus seems to have lost a bit of development ground to RB/McLaren/Ferrari since Hungary.

23rd November 2012, 00:23	#121
SilentEngine Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: KA19,KA04 Posts: 1,167 Thanked: 735 Times View My Garage	Re: 2012 F1 - Circuit of the Americas Ferrari's decision may not be illegal, but certainly not one to be proud of. The reason why none of the teams protested much was because none of the top teams (McLaren/RedBull mainly) were affected negatively by this. Hamilton/Vettel/Webber were already ahead of both Ferraris and Button was out of top 10. Few seasons back (2005 or 2006 don't remember exactly) when we had 2 sessions of single lap qualifying there was one race where most of the drivers deliberately went slower (Schumi even went off the track) in first session because there was some rain expected later in the day. By going slower they wanted to ensure they ran their second lap before the rain arrived. It was not illegal, but certainly not in the best interest of the sport. FIA changed the qualifying system soon. This is exactly like that. Not illegal, but not good for the sport. I hope FIA does something to stop this from happening in future.
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23rd November 2012, 18:18	#127
StarrySky Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: EU - Nordic Posts: 2,052 Thanked: 3,043 Times	Re: 2012 F1 - Circuit of the Americas Let's not forget that Alonso had the best or equal-best car and a rookie team-mate in 2007 and did not win the title.
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