[mgh]

Originally Posted by arun_josie

2010 - Alonso was leading by 15 points over Vettel before the last race. But Vettel went on to win the championship. This time its other way around and Alonso has got a chance to take revenge.

that was a result of Ferrari shooting themselves in the foot with the worst pit stop strategy ever seen.
Red Bull are unlikely to do that.

[mayankk]

What a race!!
Just finished watching it.
Highlights were Massa's slap in the face to Ferrari management. Given a little more time, I'm sure we'd have heard, over the radio," Alonso is faster, repeat, Alonso is faster!".
Jenson, what moves man!
Vettel,I hope he was berating himself with the comments when he got taken. Otherwise, someone should locate his toybox, please.
Harvey, thank you for not blabbering through the radio communications, and for not allowing the talker to, too.

Hammy boy!!
Amazing stuff! I have half a mind to follow his seat at Mercedes. I can always justify it with being a splinter team of sorts.

[vb-saan]

Originally Posted by mayankk

What a race!!
Just finished watching it.
Highlights were Massa's slap in the face to Ferrari management. Given a little more time, I'm sure we'd have heard, over the radio," Alonso is faster, repeat, Alonso is faster!".
Jenson, what moves man!
Vettel,I hope he was berating himself with the comments when he got taken. Otherwise, someone should locate his toybox, please.

I agree! Just finished watching the full recording. Awesome circuit indeed! Hamilton was topclass, and his teammate displayed some of his strengths in overtaking and wheel-to-wheel driving. And poor Massa... If not for the position change, he would have been up there fighting with Hamilton and Vettel (and not a distant 3rd place finish).

[anachronix]

http://www.accuweather.com/en/br/sao...-weather/45881

Pavan, time for the Brazil thread. A wet weekend predicted in Brazil

Its going to be a lottery!

[Hatari]

Originally Posted by zoombiee

I dont quite get what you mean here. Two wrongs make a right?
If Renault and Mclaren did something wrong, does it give license to Ferrari to do something wrong. Does it make the wrong that Ferrari does right?

Also, I dont get what sort of comparison being done. Kimi for being a bad talker, Vettel for being a cry baby, we are talking about ethics here and what has happened is wrong. This has nothing to do with what others do. This was a decision taken by Ferrari to give them an unfair advantage at the cost of others.
Taking light by batsmen at time when they are in a weak position is not sportsman like. Nobody says that it upholds the spirit of the game. It is unethical. And if some one does something unethical in one sport that does not wipe of the responsibility of sportsman/teams in other sports.

What Ferrari did was unethical and shameful. Giving parallels that some else also does it does not make Ferrari clean. Also, doing a crime and talking publicly does not absolve you of the crime and the responsibility it comes with.

And also I am completely lost as to how it is being claimed that Ferrari will never do anything wrong.
What is wrong is wrong

Wrong? I dont think it was. You say Ferrari are the team who have "violated every norm of sportsman spirit" while forgetting others have broken iron clad the rules outright.

The other comparisons were for Pavan as a question, with respect to driver attitude in general.

Since according to you, taking the light is unethical, Im curious, did you actually play any sports? For school/college etc? If not i'll just be

Bottomline is that, for someone who has been fighting all season long in a much slower car, against a team which are light years ahead in Quali, meaning he already starts every race at a disadvantage, the team taking that decision is ethics free and quite logical, simply to have an outside hope of glory at Brazil.

In the words of 17th century Japanese Miyamoto Musashi (who set out in his 'Book of Five Rings' teachings ranging from strategy, philosophy and battlefield tactics to self-control and spiritual calm) and whom Fernando quoted -

If the enemy thinks in the mountains, attack by sea. If they think in the sea, attack by the mountains


If the sword breaks, attack with the hands,If they cut off your hands, push the enemy with your shoulders, even with the teeth.

This is war my friend.. Bring on Sau Paulo!!!

[zoombiee]

Originally Posted by Hatari

Since according to you, taking the light is unethical, Im curious, did you actually play any sports? For school/college etc? If not i'll just be

What has this got to do whether I play any sports or not. Whether I do or not is another matter. Sports is not war where defeat means death or servitude. Sports is a way of putting your skills on display and have competition so that you improve on those skills. How Ferrari and Alonso managed to do that by this act remains to be understood?

Again and again you keep saying others did this others did that etc etc. This is the language of politicians and not sportsmen.

[asr245]

I am actually not even sure of what's wrong with what Ferrari did? They figured that they would very likely lose one place at the start from the dirty side - that translates like from 6th & 8th positions to 7th and 9th on turn one. Instead, by doing what they did, they finished 4th and 10th. Massa may be feeling bad about it, but then that's what happens when you spend half the season prodding at the back of the field when your team-mate is winning races and fight for the championship. Also, if you ask me, when a driver would rather want to qualify 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th etc. instead of 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th etc, then there's something wrong in the system. 2 wrongs don't make a right, but 1st wrong (decision) can lead to another wrong (decision).

For me, this was a decision in the best interest of the Ferrari team. If Felipe had an outside chance, then the feelings would have been entirely different.

[Hatari]

Originally Posted by zoombiee

What has this got to do whether I play any sports or not. Whether I do or not is another matter. Sports is not war where defeat means death or servitude. Sports is a way of putting your skills on display and have competition so that you improve on those skills. How Ferrari and Alonso managed to do that by this act remains to be understood?

Again and again you keep saying others did this others did that etc etc. This is the language of politicians and not sportsmen.

As i suspected, you obviously have not. I rest my case.

[Hatari]

Found this article
Massa gearbox penalty best decision of the season
http://totalf1.com/full_story/view/4...of_the_season/

Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM

Alonso can never stand in the same pedestal as Schumi, he's way too far behind and cannot even achieve 25% of Schumi's success, lets stop comparing his attitude to the Legend.

About the new boys, they are young bloods.

Alonso never was a team man, facts cant change overnite.

You bring up Schumi records to highlight his success (which I never denied or spoke about) you conveniently brush them aside when talking of his attitude! He will have rec among the highest reprimands as well! He's a legend in that as well!

Originally Posted by jraj

The kind of attitude which screamed to the media that his team didnt want him to carry over the No1 status to Mclaren in 2006

The kind of attitude which blackmailed his employer - Give me No1 status,else I would expose the Stepneygate issue

Just a hypothetical question - Should the F2012 let go in Brazil just like the F2006 did in Suzuka,do you think Alonso's attitude will let him respond the same way that Michael did?

I dont want to comment about others - but Michael & Kimi,I have immense respect for these 2 guys on that account alone - they rose and fell with their team.They never ever trained their guns on their own team

Alonso felt betrayed at Mclaren.. that the whole team wanted Hamilton to win more than him, which was true given Lewis joined them as a kid. They wanted to see him win his 1st WDC.

At the end of 2010, abu dhabi.. there was a shot of a very dejected alonso, with his head in his hands, surronded by his crew, consoling each other.

He was a complete team man in Renault and is now at Ferrari, simply because he feels it back from the team. I have no doubt he will respond in the same way and focus on next year. (Hope it doesnt come to that though!)

[StarrySky]

Originally Posted by Hatari

Alonso felt betrayed at Mclaren.. that the whole team wanted Hamilton to win more than him, which was true given Lewis joined them as a kid. They wanted to see him win his 1st WDC.

The bolded part, IMO, is pure speculation on your part. Fernando did nothing that season (on-track) to get the team to focus only on him. He finished equal on points with his team-mate.

Did he expect the team to favour him because he was a 2-time WDC and his team-mate was a rookie?

Originally Posted by Hatari

He was a complete team man in Renault

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/intl-m...-shanghai.html

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/55177/1...front_row.html

[Hatari]

Originally Posted by StarrySky

The bolded part, IMO, is pure speculation on your part. Fernando did nothing that season (on-track) to get the team to focus only on him. He finished equal on points with his team-mate.

Did he expect the team to favour him because he was a 2-time WDC and his team-mate was a rookie?

No, he just didnt expect everyone to be rooting for Lewis to win.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/intl-m...-shanghai.html

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/55177/1...front_row.html

What he says about Fisi, is completely logical to me, it seems like a bad call by the team. The rest is ofcourse frustration for not being on Pole.

Like I said, ALL F1 CHAMPIONS HATE TO LOSE AND WILL NOT GO DOWN WELL WITH THEM.

[zoombiee]

Originally Posted by Hatari

Like I said, ALL F1 CHAMPIONS HATE TO LOSE AND WILL NOT GO DOWN WELL WITH THEM.

How come we never saw such behavior from Damon Hill, Mika Hakkinen or Kimi Raikkonen? Havent heard any controversy involving Jensen Button either. All of them are world champions.

[jraj]

Originally Posted by Hatari

Alonso felt betrayed at Mclaren.. that the whole team wanted Hamilton to win more than him, which was true given Lewis joined them as a kid. They wanted to see him win his 1st WDC.

At the end of 2010, abu dhabi.. there was a shot of a very dejected alonso, with his head in his hands, surronded by his crew, consoling each other.

He was a complete team man in Renault and is now at Ferrari, simply because he feels it back from the team. I have no doubt he will respond in the same way and focus on next year. (Hope it doesnt come to that though!)

Bahhh,how convenient.Thats the lame excuse given by Alonso supporters
Mclaren is the team that let Senna and Prost race.I guess Alonso is a nobody before them.Only if Alonso had made it a 2 race contest between him and Kimi,maybe he could have got the support from Mclaren.But to do that Alonso should have stayed ahead of his F1 debuting teammate throughout.

Coming back to Shangai 2006,yeah yeah,that I can understand.Fisichella was faster than Alonso and Michael was catching up Fisichella pretty fast.Eventually he did overtake them both.What could have Renault made in that situation - maybe asked Alonso to pit and as soon as he came out,they could have instructed Fisichella to crash just like they asked Piquet Jr to.Too bad that Fisichella wasnt a complete team player like Alonso and Piquet Jr

[zenren]

Since we are discussing 2007 season here, here is a refresher of some events during the year and the more probable reason why the team rooted for LH. I don't think the team would have been really happy to get excluded from the constructors battle when they were clearly going to be the winners that year.

Source : Alonso's wiki article.

In the qualifying for the 2007 Hungarian Grand Prix, while both McLarens were in the pits, Alonso remained stationary in the McLaren pit for a few seconds. This delayed the then provisional pole sitter and team-mate Lewis Hamilton long enough to prevent him from getting another 'hot lap' in. Alonso then went on to claim pole.[69] McLaren boss Ron Dennis later said the team had got "out of sequence" when Hamilton did not as agreed allow Alonso past earlier in the qualifying session. He added that Alonso was "under the control of his engineer" when he was waiting in the pit lane.[70] However, Alonso was subsequently given a five-place grid penalty[71] and his McLaren team were docked the 15 constructors' World Championship points they would have earned in the race.[72]
As a result of this investigation, it emerged that some team members within McLaren, among them Alonso, were aware of confidential information belonging to the Ferrari team. This information was commented on to Alonso by McLaren test driver Pedro de la Rosa who had also received information from McLaren chief designer Mike Coughlan. The email contained text suggesting that Alonso was surprised by the data and doubted its authenticity. According to the "spygate" related email exchanges between Alonso and de la Rosa, it was clear that Alonso knew about Ferrari's pit strategies in the Australian Grand Prix and Bahrain Grand Prix. Alonso finished 2nd and 5th respectively in those races.[73] Ron Dennis told the FIA about the case during the Hungarian Grand Prix. Amid media allegations that Alonso threatened Dennis with reporting the team to FIA himself if he was not given number one driver status, Ron Dennis stated in a televised interview that there had been an argument, and that Alonso had said something in the heat of the moment but immediately apologised. This was when Dennis found out about Ferrari data and immediately informed the FIA. Pitlane sources have suggested, from published FIA stewards data, that an argument involving reporting the McLaren team to the FIA was prompted by the fact that there was no stewards' investigation regarding the qualifying pitlane incident until Anthony and Lewis Hamilton made a formal complaint on the Saturday evening; costing Alonso a five-place grid penalty and loss of Constructors' Points for the team. FIA then revealed that it had had knowledge of the Spygate case thanks to a slip made by Coughlan.[74]

[mayankk]

This is turning into the worst race thread this season.
Come on,guys.