[nkrishnap]

Originally Posted by jkdas

Neat pix amal.

Interesting note: They also showed the brake pad size as 4mm on the bill ( 10 mm on a new car ). Do they print this for all Toyota? Impressive then!

So, 30k service would cost 4500Rs without synthetic oil? And how much oil does it need? Did they flush? What brand?

They have a vehicle inspection report. They mention these details with respect to the wear and tear parts and also any aftermarket accessories in the car. They had mentioned about the Roots windtone horns on the inspection sheet for my Liva.

This one is a nice thing to have when you get the bill as well as the inspection report.

[amalji]

Got 2 surprise Diwali gifts from Toyota ( along with insurance renewal )

1. 20 point checks
2. Interior cleaning with shampoo ( worth 1200/- )

The bumper to bumper Toyota Insurance ( MS Chola ) renewal costed me Rs. 23,000 odd. It was 26,000 for first year. The 3,000 reduction is due to depreciation.

There was no no-claim bonus since I replaced 1 alloy and 2 tyres under insurance in the first year. More information of the incident already posted on http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post2784810

[saadat1992]

Wow! You just got 19-20kmpl at speeds of 80-100?
My liva returned an astonishing mileage of 24kmpl at 100-110kmph with AC and full load

[amalji]

Originally Posted by saadat1992

Wow! You just got 19-20kmpl at speeds of 80-100?
My liva returned an astonishing mileage of 24kmpl at 100-110kmph with AC and full load

1. 24kmpl for full tank to full tank is astonishing mileage for any driving condition. Even Toyota claims only 23.5 kmpl that too not under full load condition.
2. It's not just 80 to 100 that matters. But, the acceleration, the frequency of braking, the timing of gear shifts, the altitude, temperature and density of air etc. The thing is Once I get that peak toque surge from 1800 to 2400 rpms I forget about the word- mileage. :-D

[Mohanan]

Originally Posted by amalji

I'll be visiting enginecal people next week. Will be comparing the features and performance of enginecal and redrooster spider tuning kits for Etios/Liva and then will take a decision on it.

PS: Redrooster people have promised me that they will be sending the torque curve ( with the tuning kit fitted ) soon to my email.

Hello Amalji,

Did you try out Enginecal, Bangalor? Seems they own a modded Liva, did you take a TD, how does it feel? In my conversation with Anubhav, he said the stick to the 68bhp power and only bump up the Torque to 180Nm with their ready to use Tuning Box. They don't do ECU remapping at this point for Etios. Let me know your experience. Thanks in advance!

Cheers!

[amalji]

Originally Posted by Mohanan

Hello Amalji,

Did you try out Enginecal, Bangalor? Seems they own a modded Liva, did you take a TD, how does it feel?

Yes, I tried their vehicle. It feels a tad bit more peppier. But, not much of a difference.

Originally Posted by Mohanan

In my conversation with Anubhav, he said the stick to the 68bhp power and only bump up the Torque to 180Nm with their ready to use Tuning Box. They don't do ECU remapping at this point for Etios. Let me know your experience. Thanks in advance!

Cheers!

Their policy of not boosting the bhp further, but improving on torque is the right way forward. The only issue that I had was

1) The 170 to 180 Nm power increase feels too low for us to feel a difference.
2) If they could have shifted the torque curve to the left a bit, then that would have improved the drivability of the vehicle even further. But, Anubhav told me that if they do that, they will have to compromise on the extra smoke ( only a bit more as per his conversation ).

Overall, have a conversation with him. Fit the ECU on your vehicle, do the tuning as per his recommendation and your requirements. Once, you are happy, ensure that you are not throwing out smoke on hard acceleration through the exhaust.

[amalji]

Etios diesel is at 26,000 kms and the first issue has cropped up. The problem is that after driving the car continuously for around 150 to 200 kms, the turbo becomes erratic ( Sometimes, there is a delay, sometimes it doesn't start at all ).
When the delay occurs, lots of smoke comes out of exhaust ( probably because of a richer fuel-air mixture inside the engine )

The weird thing is if I switch off the engine and then turn it back on, everything is back to working perfect again.
At the same time, allowing the engine to idle for 10 to 15 minutes instead of switching off doesn't solve the issue.

I took the car to Nippon Toyota service, Nettoor, Ernakulam after a 200 km drive from Trivandrum, kept the engine on and asked them to check. To my surprise, the service advisor was not acknowledging the problem even after I showed it live! He told this is how it works normally.

Then I stopped the car, explained to him that I know how a turbo works, and I know how an Etios diesel performs and have been driving this car for 26,000 kms and that I started facing the issue only recently. Also, told him that during the first 170 kms of the drive, the issue was not there. It only started after that. So, please accept first that I'm not bluffing here. Even though, he was still in a kind of denial mode, he agreed to take the car for a check. To my relief, the ECU showed an error code - "lack of power". Atleast the ECU is more intelligent than the service personnel. Then he told that this is a known bug with certain ECU firmwares, and that he will update it to the latest firmware after I take an appointment with Toyota for doing the same.

I have an appointment on Thursday. They told that the job would take approximately 4 hours. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[swiftnfurious]

Originally Posted by amalji

.... To my relief, the ECU showed an error code - "lack of power". Atleast the ECU is more intelligent than the service personnel. Then he told that this is a known bug with certain ECU firmwares, and that he will update it to the latest firmware....

Inspite of knowing there is a bug, he didn't bother to acknowledge? I guess you shoould write a stinker to the dealer / A$$ or give the SA a low rating! That should set the process right. Also aren't they doing any recalls? STRANGE! You might also point out the need of a voluntary recall to fix the issue, to Toyota.

Any idea which batch of cars have this problem? That might help rest of the pack to get it done as a preventive measure.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Inspite of knowing there is a bug, he didn't bother to acknowledge? I guess you shoould write a stinker to the dealer / A$$ or give the SA a low rating! That should set the process right.

I asked him that today. He told that normally people don't report it as lack of power. But, they just complain about the "check engine" light lighting up. He told that this is the first time, someone is reporting the symptom as a result of the error code. ( Probably because I'm mostly on the turbo range and do very frequent long drives )

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Also aren't they doing any recalls? STRANGE! You might also point out the need of a voluntary recall to fix the issue, to Toyota.

When I met him today, I asked for the specific details as to why the error came in the first place and what is the specific change that is incorporated into the ECU program. He mentioned that the dealer is not supposed to reveal such details to the customer. I told that I'm very concerned that my car runs on a different ECU program than the other Etios Diesel on the roads. I also told that I doubt whether this software patch is done to cover up some mechanical issue. Also mentioned that I'm a team-bhp member and will be posting about this incident for sure. So, if my co-community members get to know that Toyota is hiding something, it's going to reflect bad on Toyota.

Then he started opening up. This is what he told.

The error code means that "engine is not getting adequate air"
Once, the error occurs, the engine falls into a fail safe kind of a mode where normal power delivery doesn't happen ( It's limited based on other parameters which normally doesn't come into the picture ). Only, once the root cause is identified and the error code is cleared will it get back to normal power delivery mode.

They identified the root cause as "clogged air filter" which they cleaned. But, they also mentioned that even with the amount of air that the engine was taking in with the clogging shown on my car, there shouldn't be an issue as such with the engine's performance. So, what the new patch does is to decrease the "lower threshold" of air flow volume so that it doesn't go into failsafe mode as soon as the air filter starts to get clogged up. So, in short what they have done is to widen the normal working range for "air intake volume".

They won't be doing this on all Etios as of now, because they see the issue very rarely and it's not a critical issue as such. The Toyota engineers are still doing research on it.

Originally Posted by swiftnfurious

Any idea which batch of cars have this problem? That might help rest of the pack to get it done as a preventive measure.

They are not sure about it either. They were asked to do this update only on a case by case basis due to the nature of the problem and due to the fact that it is a very recently discovered issue.

Originally Posted by amalji

I have an appointment on Thursday. They told that the job would take approximately 4 hours. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Took the car to the service center by 9:10 am ( I was 10 minutes late )
Promised delivery time was 1 pm.
I got a call at around 12:45 pm that the car is ready. I told them that my brake pads were "4 mm" thick on 20,000 kms service and that I would like to know how much is left now, since I've run another 6,000 kms. They told that they will deliver the car by 2:30 pm in that case and they stuck to the promise.
They took me for a test drive to ensure that I'm happy with the performance after ECU upgrade. And there was no performance issues as such. But, I told him that I'll keep a check on it when I go for a long drive next time.

ECU update was done free of charge under warranty.
Brake pad checking was done for a labour charge of Rs. 98/- ( since I took, the SMILES pack, I got 50% discount in labour ).
They told me that I still have 3mm of brake pads left. So, I can change it in 30,000 service. But, asked me to refrain from creating hard braking scenarios if possible during the next 4,000 kms.
Also, told me to drive with the windows open once in a while and to check for a sound while braking. They told that once, the brake pad reaches 1mm, there will be a squeaking sound while braking. This is a kind of warning by design of the brake pad to ensure that the driver is alerted when the last 1mm of brake pad is in use.

So, service experience as such was good ( after the initial glitch in problem detection ).

Originally Posted by amalji

Known bugs with the Toyota Etios

When the suspension expands, it hits the stopper fast. The scope for expansion of the suspension is lesser on a Toyota Etios probably due to the combined effect of soft suspensions, and light weight. You will hear a thud sound every time you take a speed breaker hump fast or when you take a dip at a high speed. Not much of an issue. But, would have felt better without this sound for sure. Toyota engineers say, it doesn't affect the vehicle in any way other than the thud sound ( which is not pleasing for the ears ) it gives. But, once you get used to the vehicle you will know at what speed you should take a hump or dip to avoid this sound. The compression of the suspension is perfect though. I've never bottomed out the suspension in my 20,000 kms of aggressive driving.

I also discussed with the service advisor regarding the famous thud sound of the Etios suspensions which I had mentioned on one of my previous posts as quoted above.
He mentioned that there is a modified suspension setup available now to take care of the issue. But, he mentioned that the old suspensions are better for comfort and that the thud sound doesn't harm the vehicle anyway. But, if a customer is very particular about the thud sound, they give the modified suspensions to the customer. Then I asked whether the newly manufactured Etios is fitted with the old kind of suspension setup or the new one and he replied that it's the old kind.
So, I decided to live with the old suspensions especially since I do slow down on bad roads in which case the sound will never be heard.
And it also acts as a warning alarm to make sure that I slow down adequately on bad roads instead of banging it hard.

[sups]

Originally Posted by amalji

I also discussed with the service advisor regarding the famous thud sound of the Etios suspensions which I had mentioned on one of my previous posts as quoted above.
He mentioned that there is a modified suspension setup available now to take care of the issue. But, he mentioned that the old suspensions are better for comfort and that the thud sound doesn't harm the vehicle anyway.

My 20 day old Liva GD is serviced at 1000 km. No issues so far, except for the thud sound coming from front suspension while crossing speed breakers at a slightly higher speed.

While purchasing the car, the SA told me that post Sept 2012 manufactured cards do not have this problem. However, even though my car was manufactured on 31st Oct, it has this problem. The service advisor now has asked me to leave the car in January for a day and they will rectify the problem. Now I am concerned as per amalji's post that it would lead to less ride comfort. Need to check it more thoroughly now.

Somehow I have a feel that I should have gone for Punto sports. Even though the back seat space is not much in punto, its ride comfort belongs to a different league.

[amalji]

Originally Posted by sups

My 20 day old Liva GD is serviced at 1000 km. No issues so far, except for the thud sound coming from front suspension while crossing speed breakers at a slightly higher speed.

While purchasing the car, the SA told me that post Sept 2012 manufactured cards do not have this problem. However, even though my car was manufactured on 31st Oct, it has this problem. The service advisor now has asked me to leave the car in January for a day and they will rectify the problem. Now I am concerned as per amalji's post that it would lead to less ride comfort. Need to check it more thoroughly now.

Do keep us updated about your findings. Even I'm interested in this.

Originally Posted by sups

Somehow I have a feel that I should have gone for Punto sports. Even though the back seat space is not much in punto, its ride comfort belongs to a different league.

For me, Punto sports is out of the equation for the following reasons.

• Fiat manufactures it and they don't care about their after sales service.

• Spare availability is always a concern which my friends using Palio are already facing.
• Service costs and spare costs are high
• In addition, I've also heard about the clutch slave cylinder issue on team-bhp

While many of the cars manufactured by FIAT ticks in most departments, it fails in the above points, which is a deal breaker for me. A good car depends on what the buyer gives priority for. If the buyer is ready to take the risk on maintenance options and service costs, FIAT is ofcourse a great buy.

[saadat1992]

Originally Posted by sups

Somehow I have a feel that I should have gone for Punto sports. Even though the back seat space is not much in punto, its ride comfort belongs to a different league.

Even i always had a feeling that i should have gone in for the i20 diesel for an extra 30 grand because in terms of interiors, looks and build quality, the Hyundai is light years ahead of the Liva. Its spacious , has 6 gears, better NVH, more powerful but, i20's mileage is less than Liva's mileage, parking the i20 is such a headache, very less road visibility, Hyundai's spares and services are expensive ( i had a Santro and the service bills never came less than 4k).
3 main reasons why i chose the Liva:
- Low maintenance cost.
- Toyota's Bullet proof reliability.
- Mileage.
There might be some bad bits but, on the Long run, Liva is the car. I dont regret buying it, infact I love it!

[Rufus_M]

Originally Posted by amalji

Do keep us updated about your findings. Even I'm interested in this.

For me, Punto sports is out of the equation for the following reasons. [*]Fiat manufactures it and they don't care about their after sales service.[*]Spare availability is always a concern which my friends using Palio are already facing.[*]Service costs and spare costs are high[*]In addition, I've also heard about the clutch slave cylinder issue on team-bhpWhile many of the cars manufactured by FIAT ticks in most departments, it fails in the above points, which is a deal breaker for me. A good car depends on what the buyer gives priority for. If the buyer is ready to take the risk on maintenance options and service costs, FIAT is ofcourse a great buy.

I have a few clarifications to make.

1) Though Fiat A** isn't as good as Toyota, it is not as bad as it is made out to be.

2) Spares maybe a concern for Palio users, but Punto/Linea users don't face that problem. I have an Punto & I stand by my point. The spares have never been a problem till now.

3) The service costs & spare costs aren't high at all. The 15,000kms/1 year service costed me about 5000 bucks which I think is reasonable. Major contribution to this bill is the synthetic oil used for MJD.

4) Yes, the clutch slave cylinder was an issue in some cars. Fiat has replaced them FOC. Punto/Linea comes with a 4 year warranty & they don't make a fuss in honoring warranty.

Regards,
Rufus

[sups]

Originally Posted by amalji

• Spare availability is always a concern which my friends using Palio are already facing.
• Service costs and spare costs are high

My father-in-law is having a 3 year old Palio in Kolkata. The spare parts are really an issue. However, this is not so the case with Punto/Linea as confirmed by many owners. Ofcourse Fiat has a long way to go in terms of after sales.

After riding my Liva for the last 20 days and with my Getz for last 5.5 yrs, yesterday I sat on the back seat of my father's Palio in Kolkata. Yes, Palio does not have the space of a Liva/Getz, but it rides like a charm and the Jap and the Korean cannot come close to it in that department. The way the broken tarmac is gobbled by Palio is something to be experienced. I felt sad for the dying italian beauty.

Originally Posted by saadat1992

Even i always had a feeling that i should have gone in for the i20 diesel for an extra 30 grand because in terms of interiors, looks and build quality, the Hyundai is light years ahead of the Liva.

I have test driven i20 diesel before buying Liva. A car should ride well at the least. And this is where i20 lost out even with the inflated price tag. I was not comfortable sitting at the back of i20. Liva rides better at the back, atleast in city speeds.

Originally Posted by Rufus_M

I have a few clarifications to make.
1) Though Fiat A** isn't as good as Toyota, it is not as bad as it is made out to be.

If I can afford a 2nd car ever, it will be a Fiat for sure. After driving the Punto sports, I was totally bowled over. Its amazing. Its both a beauty and a beast. Its only the *** fear that I did not go for it. But as 2nd car, I can live with that fear.

[sups]

Originally Posted by amalji

Do keep us updated about your findings. Even I'm interested in this.

I am having a strange problem with Liva. Since you have experienced the car very minutely, I have a question for you.

My wife travels about 60 km everyday in the back seat while my driver drives. Earlier it was Getz and now it is Liva. She feels that in congested roads, the same driver accelerates faster and also brakes harder in Liva than in the Getz. As a result, she always undergoes back and forth motion in Liva leading to lot of discomfort. So, even if Liva is more settled (less bumpy) in the back seat than that of Getz, it feels less comfortable in congested roads due to back and forth motion. She attributed the reason to lighter weight of Liva, but I do not think so. When I talked to the driver, he told me that Liva has more pickup and sharper breaks and the effect is due to that. Did you have any such experience coming from the back seat passengers?