[debuda]

Originally Posted by SDP

Yesterday I posted a picture of the wheel-well showing the speed-sensor assembly partially. Today morning I put on my C.S.I. cap and decided to dig deeper. Jacked up the front left wheel, turned the steering to extreme right and got under the car with my D90 in hand. Here are my detailed observations and views.

SDP -- hats off to you! This was a really detailed technical investigation which would give even Sherlock Holmes a run for his money. And the pictures are absolutely clear which should leave no doubt in anybody's mind regarding the real reason for failure.

I agree 100% with your deductions and conclusions. I happen to be a Mechanical engineer with a Masters in Materials Science and have carried out many such failure analyses during my working life. As far as the M&M ASC's claim of these being rat bites (and therefore not covered under warranty) is concerned, either they are downright dishonest or plain incompetent.

After going through your post I carried out an inspection of these cables in my own XUV. The clamps looked okay and the cables are well away from my tyres. I must remember to check this periodically and would also advise other XUV owners to do the same.

There is only one thing that I have not been able to fully comprehend -- how come the same problem occurred in both wheel wells at the same time? It may be possible that an overenthusiastic 'washing boy' managed to dislodge the clamps on both sides while trying to remove mud, etc., from the wheel wells during your last servicing at the M&M ASC.

Let me wish your Duma a very happy birthday. May you+Duma enjoy many thousand kilometers of trouble-free and exciting association.

[anandtheleo]

Hats off!!! This analysis is on par with your detailed analysis you undertook to compile all the niggles in the XUV into a excel sheet.

I am 100% sure the Mahindra A** would have known this was no rat bite, but this time they "chewed" more than they could digest

Congrats on completing 1 year with your XUV hope the rest of the ownership is uneventful.

[carzone]

Originally Posted by SDP

Would go the Customer-care VP if needed. I don't give up easily.

I like it. *thumbs up*
I seriously hope that you get full refund. Also, the A.S.S. should have been taught a lesson so that no customer suffers henceforth.

Keep it up!

[Heavy Horse]

Originally Posted by SDP

So, ladies and gentleman, here's the culprit. Here's the point-C again.
Attachment 1104379

Looks like the assembly came off at this point OR may be it was not connected correctly when the vehicle went for service/repairs last time. The loose wire rubbed against the tyre and eventually got sheared causing the ABS+ESP malfunction.

One mystery solved!

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BTW, its Duma's b'day today! It was exactly one year back, I got the delivery.

Dear Duma, you have got some lousy nurses and doctors at the clinic. Sorry about that! Hope you are at least happy with your owner!

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EDIT: The thread has crossed 1 lakh views this week! Thank you everyone for being part of the journey and helping me with a lot of questions and doubts.

Hi SDP Congratulations for a fantastic research and analysis.

I fully agree with your conclusions because this sensor failure due to frayed wires seems to be happening after a visit to the SC. As I mentioned in my earlier post, mine ocurred after a Goa trip where the vehicle had to be attended by the dealer there. The trip back was great. But within one week I was driving up to Mangalore airport when the 4 "dreaded" signs popped up. I am pretty certain that the clamps were loosened and subsequently came off, when rubbing against the tyres "chewed" them up.

Looking at those pics there simply is NO chance of a rat bite.

Congratulations to Duma and you on your first anniversary of ownership, and many more to follow.

The evidence you have gathered is so compelling that I am very confident that M&M will agree to a refund. What surprises me is that my dealer did'nt ask for a pie and same with FG, though his dealer took considerable time to figure out the problem. That means M&M must be agreeing to a warranty replacement for this issue. So is your dealer serving you a double whammy? Charging you and claiming warranty from M&M ???

[SDP]

Originally Posted by debuda

SDP -- hats off to you! This was a really detailed technical investigation which would give even Sherlock Holmes a run for his money. And the pictures are absolutely clear which should leave no doubt in anybody's mind regarding the real reason for failure.
...
Let me wish your Duma a very happy birthday. May you+Duma enjoy many thousand kilometers of trouble-free and exciting association.

Thanks Debuda for the kind words!

I agree 100% with your deductions and conclusions. I happen to be a Mechanical engineer with a Masters in Materials Science and have carried out many such failure analyses during my working life. As far as the M&M ASC's claim of these being rat bites (and therefore not covered under warranty) is concerned, either they are downright dishonest or plain incompetent.

I do not expect the actual grease-monkeys to connect the dots, but I do expect the Service-Advisor and the RM to be able to see those and support the customer. The SA/RM should have seen the frayed wires. If he believes that printing out job-cards and invoices is his only job, I do have a problem with that. These are smart folks that I deal with. I doubt its incompetence.

After going through your post I carried out an inspection of these cables in my own XUV. The clamps looked okay and the cables are well away from my tyres. I must remember to check this periodically and would also advise other XUV owners to do the same.

That's a very good suggestion!
May be we all should add it to the visual-inspection checklist.

There is only one thing that I have not been able to fully comprehend -- how come the same problem occurred in both wheel wells at the same time? It may be possible that an overenthusiastic 'washing boy' managed to dislodge the clamps on both sides while trying to remove mud, etc., from the wheel wells during your last servicing at the M&M ASC.

The cleaning guys at my service-center do not 'touch' anything. They just spray water!
May be when the mechnic raises the car on the fork lift and the shock-absorbers expand to their full-length in this no-load condition, may be a over-enthu mechanic removed the wire from the clamp as he feared it might snap.

Originally Posted by anandtheleo

Hats off!!! This analysis is on par with your detailed analysis you undertook to compile all the niggles in the XUV into a excel sheet.

I am 100% sure the Mahindra A** would have known this was no rat bite, but this time they "chewed" more than they could digest

Congrats on completing 1 year with your XUV hope the rest of the ownership is uneventful.

Thanks Anand!

Originally Posted by carzone

I like it. *thumbs up*
I seriously hope that you get full refund. Also, the A.S.S. should have been taught a lesson so that no customer suffers henceforth.

Keep it up!

Have to deal with the same service-center in future as well. So can't pick 'direct' fights with them or teach them a lesson. Have escalated directly to M&M customer care precisely because of this reason. Let the big brother rap them on the knuckles.

Originally Posted by Heavy Horse

Hi SDP Congratulations for a fantastic research and analysis.
...
Congratulations to Duma and you on your first anniversary of ownership, and many more to follow.

Thanks Heavy Horse!

What surprises me is that my dealer did'nt ask for a pie and same with FG, though his dealer took considerable time to figure out the problem. That means M&M must be agreeing to a warranty replacement for this issue. So is your dealer serving you a double whammy? Charging you and claiming warranty from M&M ???

As one can imagine, the warranty replacements do need approval from someone at the service-center and sometimes even from M&M. Its so much easier to take the stance "its not covered under warranty" and charge the customer.

[Mudhalaipatti]

SDP, nothing like this.
Thank you very much for the detailed postmortem and the pics. A logical conclusion, this is. Wish you get your money back from Mahindra.

Congrats on the Duma's birthday and congrats on the 1 lakh hit. Your's is arguably the better detailed XUV ownership thread out here.

Everytime our vehicles come off a service, something is amiss. Can we have a checklist to verify for ourselves, to ensure that these grease-monkeys don't lead us in top any life threatening issues. However as a owner this is not our job, especially after paying for this vehicle to enjoy the drive and not do quality control of the service works.

[sagarpadaki]

Amazing analysis SDP! Must have been pretty difficult to take the pics in such cramped space. Like the detective in you! Now take the pics to the service center who charged you for this. Hoist the car up on the service jack and show them the analysis wrt to the old part. And see what they have to say about it!

[engrohit]

SDP, trust me M&M Customer care is going to employ you on retainer ship for carrying out such excellent spy jobs for them in future as well.

Very few people would have taken the pain to go to this extent, but as you said, you are clearly not going to let it go.

Edit: No wonder for your 2196 posts, you ave been thanked 2442 times.

Mods: When are you releasing the next list of Distinguished BHPians?

[Maverick5490]

Awesome job done there SDP!! Was any brake job done during your last visit to the A**? Chances are the technician did not route/lock the sensor properly. Also in that case, maybe one sensor failed earlier and the other one on your long trip. Both of them failing together is remote. They should consider the job under warranty and refund the entire amount.

Another advice would be to befriend your SA/RM so that he knows you mean business and does not do such tricks next time onwards!

[SDP]

Originally Posted by Mudhalaipatti

SDP, nothing like this.
Thank you very much for the detailed postmortem and the pics. A logical conclusion, this is. Wish you get your money back from Mahindra.

Thanks Mudhalaipatti!

Congrats on the Duma's birthday and congrats on the 1 lakh hit. Your's is arguably the better detailed XUV ownership thread out here.

I consider yours and Debuda's ownership threads significantly better than mine. Debuda's for the pure distilled technical knowledge and your's for brilliant English, humor and superlative care of the vehicle!

Everytime our vehicles come off a service, something is amiss. Can we have a checklist to verify for ourselves, to ensure that these grease-monkeys don't lead us in top any life threatening issues. However as a owner this is not our job, especially after paying for this vehicle to enjoy the drive and not do quality control of the service works.

Very well said. When I was a lurker on Team-BHP, I had read one Tata Safari ownership thread and the gentleman had mentioned that the vehicle makes you a mechanical engineer! I really do not mind adding mechanical engineering to my skill set, but for everything there is a price to pay. The amount of time I spend on learning mechanical details of the car, is the amount of time that I am not spending on my family or my career!

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

Amazing analysis SDP! Must have been pretty difficult to take the pics in such cramped space. Like the detective in you! Now take the pics to the service center who charged you for this. Hoist the car up on the service jack and show them the analysis wrt to the old part. And see what they have to say about it!

Thanks Sagar. Have taken it up with the customer-care.

Originally Posted by engrohit

SDP, trust me M&M Customer care is going to employ you on retainer ship for carrying out such excellent spy jobs for them in future as well.

Very few people would have taken the pain to go to this extent, but as you said, you are clearly not going to let it go.

Edit: No wonder for your 2196 posts, you ave been thanked 2442 times.

Mods: When are you releasing the next list of Distinguished BHPians?

Thanks Rohit for the kind words. Just doing my bit about helping fellow XUV-owners in any way I can.

Originally Posted by Maverick5490

Awesome job done there SDP!! Was any brake job done during your last visit to the A**? Chances are the technician did not route/lock the sensor properly. Also in that case, maybe one sensor failed earlier and the other one on your long trip. Both of them failing together is remote. They should consider the job under warranty and refund the entire amount.

Another advice would be to befriend your SA/RM so that he knows you mean business and does not do such tricks next time onwards!

Thanks! I thought I had spent enough time with the RM and one SA. Have had long discussions with both. Unfortunately looks like we still don't understand each other well.

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Update:
Got a call from the service-center as well as from M&M. The service center believes that the sensor can not rub against anything. They offered me a refund for the diagnostic charges. I told them that I am sticking with this being a warranty job and need full refund. I was asked if they can pick up my vehicle again. I refused. I have offered them to pick up the damamged sensors from my home and then do their analysis on any other XUV. The sensor-assemblies would be picked up from home today.

[ghodlur]

Sanjay,

Simply amazing. Hats off to you for the detailed analysis, you have exposed the workshop personnel's incompetence. Stick to your guns and dont let the Mahindra guys off the hook. The pics you clicked were simply fantastic and detailed.

Couple of thoughts:
1) If the sensor cable was clamped at 5 points, Mahindra might have thought of providing an additional cap on the clamps so that the sensor wouldnt come out of the clamps at all. Cables are prone to pop out of the U clamp hold. A simple cable tie would have provided a stronger hold.
2) Why a simple bare cable, why not a braided cable which would be the first point of protection incase the cable hangs loose.

I hope the Duma is going to get some Very Special Treatment for the special day.

[Jignesh]

Originally Posted by SDP

So, ladies and gentleman, here's the culprit. Here's the point-C again. One mystery solved! BTW, its Duma's b'day today! It was exactly one year back, I got the delivery.
The amount of time I spend on learning mechanical details of the car, is the amount of time that I am not spending on my family or my career!

Hello SDP,

Boy, hats off to your persistence on finding the root cause of the problem. As suggested by others your investigation & photos clearly prove that damage to those wires was not cause by rats. It looks like during the last washing session the person forgot to plug the wires back to the clamps. I am sure M&MASS will give-up their claims & give you full refund of the charges. The replacement of the wires should surely be done free - under warranty.

The way you are exploring & understanding mechanical details of the car, I think you will soon become a single point of contact for all XUV owners for any issue that M&MASS could not solve.

Also wish your car a very Happy Birthday & hope to see a picture perfect postcard of your Tuscan Red XUV at Khardung La top next year.

Thanks,

[SDP]

Originally Posted by SDP

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Update:
Got a call from the service-center as well as from M&M. The service center believes that the sensor can not rub against anything. They offered me a refund for the diagnostic charges. I told them that I am sticking with this being a warranty job and need full refund. I was asked if they can pick up my vehicle again. I refused. I have offered them to pick up the damamged sensors from my home and then do their analysis on any other XUV. The sensor-assemblies would be picked up from home today.

Final update:
The sensor-assemblies were picked up from my home yesterday morning by the service-center. Before that I had sent the link to my analysis post to the customer-care-manager and sent the tyre's snap (as evidence for the rubbing against the tyre) to the RM.
Before noon, got a call from the customer-care-manager who mentioned that my analysis is correct and he has strongly taken up the malpractice/knowledge-gap with the service-center owner. He mentioned he would get into details like which mechanic did the job and what was reported from the shop-floor and the details about the charges. He promised that I would hear from the service-center GM by afternoon. The GM did call me in 30 minutes and mentioned that there has been some 'miscommunication' because of which the incident happened. I chose not to probe further and let it go. He promised that he would send the refund across to my home the next morning and collect the original invoice which they would need to cancel out transactions in their systems.

Today morning, 9am, a gentleman from the service center came to my home and returned the full amount I had paid for the job! Not a penny more, not a penny less!

PS: Extremely happy with the support provided by the customer-care-manager!

[EagleEye]

I'm like "WOW".
It's very rare for a car company to come up and own up to their mistake, and even rarer to have a customer care manager who really cares about the customer (go figure).
I didn't think things would be sorted out this quickly.
Mahindra have done it right this time! Kudos to them!

[carzone]

Full refund within 4 days of the complaint. Kudos to Mahindra.
I too did not think that it would have been sorted out so fast. The GM of the service centre also seems to be a nice customer-friendly chap.

Congratulations!