[.anshuman]

Getting this message whenever i try to turn on Navigation, looks like firmware needs to be reinstalled. This is my first issue with ICE in this car.

[Surprise]

Originally Posted by .anshuman

the stock relay is more than enough to handle these horns, these Hellas never died or created problems on these cars, so i decided to use the stock relay on XUV this time again. For now Horns are sounding great, a big relief on highways, but i make sure to honk them in half bursts or quarter bursts for city use, that too only when necessary. .

Thanks. Got a set installed in XUV..yes, comes handy in our highways. The sounds helps to stay away from honking within city as much as possible

[.anshuman]

(This post is copied from XUV Niggles thread, just for record in my ownership thread)

Originally Posted by NIP

Previously I had a kind of grinding sound and had asked my RM at Sireesh to look into changing the pads to the new design (I'm a senior on TBHP!!) and he said its only due to the ABS etc. and not to worry as my vehicle already has the new pads etc. I never bothered as my brakes were fine, save for the occasional grinding sound. I let it be.

I left from Bangalore to Goa on 10th May 2013 on the usual Hubli-Ankola-Goa route and was staying at Anjuna in North Goa. I was with my wife, son (7yrs) and an aunt. Somewhere around Karwar itself, my display started showing a "Front Brake Pads Worn Out!! Drive At Reduced Speed" message !! I was confident that my pads were fine and thought this must be a false alarm or sensor problem. But about 50kms on, there was heavy grinding and a kind of constant squeaking from the front left wheel.

So, Saturday (11th May 2013) morning I got my laptop out, tethered it to my Android phone, and there was some weak signal and I shot off an email to the VP CC M&M and to the regional manager Prahalad Kulkarni updating them about my situation.

Come Sunday Morning (12th May 2013), I got a couple of frantic calls from Muktar Auto (based in Verna, Goa) and a Mr. Rajesh Jagtap from M&M Mumbai, Kavita (RM, Anant Cars, Bangalore) and Nilesh (Service Manager, Muktar Auto, Goa) and by 4PM, a M&M service vehicle reached my resort and it was checked. They said they'd have to take it back to the Service Station (in VErna, about 50kms away!). I sent the vehicle with them and was constantly updated on the situation and was also being checked on by Kavita from Bangalore and others. The pads were replaced, the vehicle cleaned & washed and delivered back to me by Monday evening (13th May 2013)!

Though I'm pretty mad because my brake pads were not attended to earlier

This is actually the worst part about Mahindra, you need to shoot a mail to higher ups (or ping Mr.Mahindra on tweeter) to be taken seriously. These RMs don't know a thing about cars, or are trained to pretend this way.

My XUV is now facing this exact same problem, 2 visits back i reported grinding noise issue with brakes, the RM(@Sri Durga Auto) promised to look into the matter and they delivered the XUV back with no repairs to brakes, they just cleaned the pads (The front brake pads do not need cleaning every one or two thousand kilometers, atleast not on other cars).

After some time my car started displaying brake pads worn out error, but this error display used to come and go intermittently. The grinding noise issue was as it was earlier. Now on my second visit, to get the suspension noise checked, the SA(@Sterling Auto) plainly refused to admit there was noise of any kind or any other issue since the car was not displaying brake pads worn out error at that point of time. Due to time constraint i decided to pursue the issue later, my car has mostly been parked at home after that as i was out of country.

The brake pads were last replaced at around 10k kilometers by previous owner under warranty few months back, now the car is at 15k kilometers. Brake pads manufactured by Bosch should not wear out so early, and since Mahindra ASC RM claims they cleaned the pads in my car some time back, i assume they had decent amount of life left, so my only guess is the warning system is flawed. But what about Grinding noise after brakes heat up and screeching noise when coming to halt at slow speed.

So what should i do now? Go back to another service center and request them to acknowledge the issue and work on it, and pray to god that they do not just clean the brake pads this time again! OR Compile a long mail to be sent to Mahindra seniors. OR Register an account on twitter. OR simply find a spare part dealer who has genuine brake pads in stock and get them replaced at some neighborhood garage.

[.anshuman]

Cheetah is back in town after conquering Snow Leopard's habitat. Full technical report is coming soon.

[.anshuman]

Before posting the technical report on the car, i'd like to post the work done to the car before and after the trip.

Just before the trip, i have been monitoring the issues with the car very closely. I also kept a close eye on reports from people who have already done similar trips. Post trip details from Debuda's thread proved to be really useful in preparations. After all XUV is not a fill-it-shut-it-forget-it car for me, like the Laura.

I sent the car before trip to Sri Durga Auto, Mayapuri before the trip for General check up, Oil Change(at my cost, not as per schedule) and some niggles were to be sorted. The list-And Work done:

1.Navigation was not working. A display error popped up saying Navigation not available.

Solution: The whole infotainment unit was replaced under warranty. The new one has newer version 8 of the Maps. Also, the new system is a bit more responsive. Maps are more detailed and layout seems refreshed.


2.Brake Pads Worn out Error.

Solution: The wire was disconnected. Connected again and works fine now, no more false errors.


3.Grinding noise from front brakes after repeated braking at speed.

Solution: Pads changed to Galfer. No more grinding noise. Pedal feel is similar as with previous Bosch pads. After repeated braking, Brake fade is reduced considerably. Slow speed screeching noise continues.


4.Front Suspension had developed Rattle, it was a kind of rattle as if something in suspension had free play. It was a very annoying sound and could be felt through steering.

Solution: RM said they have tightened some bolts under the body, this had fixed the issue. The issue existed but i did not have time to go back to them, i had to tolerate the rattle all through the trip.


5.Infotainment Remote control not working.

Solution: Fixed, the battery was not inserted in proper way.


6.Asked them to change Engine oil, out of schedule, at my cost.

Solution: Done.


7.Wiper spray nozzles were not adjusted properly.

Solution: Done.


8.Complete Check up including Suspension, Electricals and Battery.

Solution: Done, nothing required attention.


9.A few LED Parking lamps were not working.

Solution: Both Headlamps Replaced under warranty. Out of Warranty they will cost a whopping 7600 bucks to replace each, just for those ugly LED lamps going bust.


10.Security system Siren Check. It is known to fall off onto the belts, causing damage to the belt, resulting in breakdown.

Solution: Replaced under warranty with the new improved unit which has one additional plastic tie attachment.

[.anshuman]

XUV-500 AWD's High Altitude Performance Report Card-

Here is the much delayed report on XUV AWD's performance in the Himalayas. Due to the time constraint i could not post it earlier.

We covered close to 4000 kms for the whole trip in 13 days. We took Manali Leh highway for both ways, apart from the regular Ladakh routes, we also covered few more less visited places.

Just because i was driving a 4wd Crossover, i had the courage to take most of the shortcuts, and took the car to places which regulars refer as 4x4 terriotory. I had driven my Laura last year to Ladakh, so what was different this time? This time i was the only driver in the car, and only 2 of us- Me and my Wife were travelling to really remote places. Reliability had to be important, if the car failed there was no back up vehicle, or even back up driver. Unlike last time, i had nobody to help me with Navigation and spotting at tough places. I was the Driver, Navigator, Spotter, Photographer...

A few off road adventures before the trip helped to know my car's limits, advantages and downsides in challenging terrain. Most important aspect to master was having judgement of available ground clearance. Adapting to XUV's ground clearance was an easy task, the only weak spot is low lying engine guard, if you manage to steer the front wheels to avoid hitting the engine guard, rest of the car can cross without trouble on any kind of obstacles. For a Crossover, Ground Clearance is generous, but pit it against chassis based trucks and the front portion is placed quite lower, the rear portion is pretty high, and there are no low hanging parts are rear, ramp breakover angle is particularly very impressive for a car of this kind. Overall i did not hit the underbody at all, this was surprising for me since i was expecting some hits. Just once the engine guard touched the ground, few kilometers before Tso Kar i was taking a shortcut, the surface was loose sand, i was driving on tire tracks, a sudden dip appeared all of a sudden, possibly dug up by some stuck 2wd vehicle, i had an option to steer away, but it was split second decision, since the surface was soft sand i decided not to leave tire tracks, the front portion hit the sand but the hit was harmless.

Even the rear differential is placed high and even gets a guard to protect it. At places where tricky steering was required, additional grip from the AWD system helped me to crawl up slowly and take the obstacle confidently. I encountered many such obstacles in Zanskar valley, at one such instance the Xylo i was following took a bad underbody hit, the driver did not have any other option but to maintain momentum to pass through on a tricky climb on a dried stream crossing full of loose boulders, on the same obstacle i slowly and comfortably climbed with AWD lock in on position.

XUV AWD comes with a AWD system which relies on clutch pack(just like in DSG transmission) on rear differential to trasmit power to rear wheels when required. The AWD system is linked to ECU and ESP sensors, it relies on data from all these systems to split the power delivery. On Normal road surface the system acts a fwd system, the power is only sent to front wheels, only when the system anticipates the need for extra traction power is sent to rear wheels. The clutch pack based rear transfer case is really quick to divert the power within milliseconds, at times the AWD system anticipates the need for extra grip and splits power before even actual slip occurs, one such example is accelerating from a traffic signal the rear differential is power even before the front tires start to skid.

Along with the quick transfer of power to the rear axle, the most impressive aspect for me is the seamless way in which power shift occurs, the occupants in the car or even the driver does not even get to know when the rear differential is powered. Compare it to the actuation of mechanical AWD system in Rexton MT in normal Torque on demand mode, the system in Rexton is Slow and Jerky, in quite a lot of instances i make out the activation of AWD system. This AWD system in XUV is more than capable to handle occasional Slush, Muck and Snow and a lot more.. But the real disadvantage is lack of low range gearing, i am not complaining here, i clearly know low range in a crossover of this kind is asking too much, many other crossovers do not even have any of 4wd system, not even as an option. Both front and rear differential are open kind, Traction Control system from ESP is the only facility to balance excessive wheelspin on the same axle.

The AWD system is pretty smart, no human intervention is required majority of the times, the only control in the cabin is the AWD Lock switch, which permanently locks the power split making it behave like a locked center differential till a particular speed or until the system detects possible transmission windup probability. This switch exists to help in scenarios where you know slip will occur, like starting on a icy incline etc. Rest of the times leave the task of splitting power. I even recorded a Video to show the quick response time of the AWD system.

In this trip, i got the first oppurtunity to use AWD system properly at Baralacha La, we reached this pass quite early in the morning, the temperature was sub-zero for sure, the water on road was frozen to form ice and there was fresh snowfall. While all other Vehicles were climbing with some drama, especially the rear wheel driven Xylos and Innovas which were dancing a bit as the rear tyres were losing traction, my XUV climbed slowly and comfortably without any need to carry extra momentum. Similar conditions with heavy snowfall and some slippery surface greeted us at Khardung la, where we spent close to 5 hours stuck in a Jam because other 2wd vehicles were finding it hard to climb, the XUV AWD even with H/T tires conquered this high pass comfortably where all others were struggling with traction.

At many places i did miss the Low range gearing, in this trip i attempted quite many steep shortcuts, just because my car did not have low gearing i had to use some momentum to keep the engine in its sweet spot to deliver enough torque to see us through, this meant a bumpy ride at places. And if i had to slow down to tackle a turn to or some high obstacle i had to start with some slip of clutch. XUV AWD uses the same gearing ratios as the Fwd version, the ratios have been tuned for best possible FE. Out on Highways, the choice of widely spaces tall ratios seems like a good decision but off the road the long first and second gear feel a bit too tall, i feel a shorter first gear should have been provided to compensate for lack of low range.

A high altitude, as expected the low end portion of the rev range before the Turbo kicks in, the range from idle speeds to 1400-1500rpm is most severely affected due to lack of oxyzen. The otherwise punchy low end of XUV suddenly disappears, the power delivery becomes peaky. It is only after 1600rpm a sudden torque wave arrives, the engine stays punchy beyond this point. This power loss in not unique to this Vehicle only, it strikes on all the engines.

On my previous trip, the TDI(CR) engine in my Laura adapted much better to Altitude, all because of a single built-in function, where the engine automatically raises the idle speed to 1200rpm at such high Altitude, to compensate for loss of grunt at lower rpm, but just because this does not happen in m-hawk engine of XUV, starting off on inclines is a tricky affair. A generous dose of Accelerator Pedal input has to be applied and revs have to be piled till 1200-1300 rpm before starting off to prevent engine from bogging down, i always tried to avoid slipping the clutch and always preferred to let it go quickly to save clutch wear.

At Altitude due to lack of Air, the Turbo-Charger starts making an annoying and crude whistling Noise which is completely absent at lower Altitude. The Engine stays quite refined otherwise, the clatter typically made by older Common-Rail engines like Innova is almost absent here. Scorpio and Xylo take a long crank to start at high Altitude, if i remember it right, it was due to missing Glow Plugs. My XUV did always start with short crank, i do not know if there any changes to the Engine or Glow plugs have been added.

Ride quality on non existent roads was not as supple as traditional SUVs, i'd blame it on the Monocoque construction and lower travel independent stiff suspension all round tuned for more towards better Dyanamics and high speed behaviour than handling off road obstacles. The underlying stiffness was always present at low speeds, but at bad roads which allowed us keep the speed high Ride quality was much better, but all in all the ability to stay flat most of the time made the trip very comfortable. Just like all other stiffly sprung vehicles, XUV's ride improves with speed. I really have no complaints in regard to Handling and Overall dynamics, not only is the Handling safe enough to carry much more speed than Chassis based SUVs, after you get used to the behaviour of this vehicle, it starts to feel reasonably involving too. The steering maybe Vague at times and Over-servo'ed for a Hydraulic setup, i liked it for being pretty quick to respond and comparatively direct for enthusiastic driving. This AWD variant does not suffer from annoying Torque steer which is a problem in 2wd variants.

Amongst the Electronics which come bundled in this top end variant of XUV-500 AWD, i was most impressed by HDC- Hill Descent Control. Along with the extra traction from AWD system, this brilliant system helped me go down super steep shortcuts without using brakes. This system works like a charm, it automatically brakes individual wheels to keep the speed in check but still never lets any of tires to lock up. After initial trials on relatively easy places, i felt confident enough to take on each and every downhill shortcut, which otherwise i would never have attempted without low range. This system impressed me so much that i even go on to claim that this system is as helpful as low range going downhill, even after repeated usage i did not experience brakes overheating or brake fade.

HHC-Hill Hold Control was great help too, it saved me a lot of effort at high altitude traffic jams. TPMS- Tire pressure monitoring system helped me save 14k bucks, on a rough road a sharp pebble got lodged in the tire tread, just because TPMS threw an Air loss warning i could fix the puncture in time or else in a minute or two the tired would have permanently damaged beyond repairable state, without me knowing. At high altitude passes, at close to freezing temperature this TPMS system sounded a few false alarms.

There was a big irritant though, the front suspension rattled all the time, just because front stabiliser bar bushes were worn out. I visited 2 different service stations to get it sorted, first one clearly denied of hearing any noise and the other one failed to fix it, even after i got the Regional office involved. After coming back, i visited the service station again, took the RM and Works Manager on a test ride, pointed out the rattle and insisted on getting each and every suspension component opened up to trace the source, it worked. This was a simple half an hour Job, the defective anti roll/stabiliser bar bushes were the culprit. I use the word defective because this is a known defect, still it has not been included in recalls, my own car is running on 4th set already in just 20k kms. SHAME on you Mahindra.

Overall my XUV-500 AWD did great on the trip. There were no issues to report, performed flawlessly all through out. Made its own road at places, ventured into 4x4 territory and came back impressed. Overall performance was above my expectations. With good driving skills, this vehicle can take you just about anywhere.

Enjoy the Pics -







































And Videos-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r6h0pvNAi8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K24ODtTJ_M8

[SDP]

Anushman, fantastic report about the AWD in Ladakh!

HHC and HDC are handy features in that kinds of terrain.
When you get a chance can you please check if the HDC works while climbing up a slope. Yes, I know it sounds stupid, but I faintly remember when I took the first TD, the sales guy did put the car in HDC mode while taking a upward slope. He pressed the buttons too many times to get the car in that mode, so not very sure about it. Or may be he showed me that even without the accelerator input, there is enough torque to climb. It was a long time back. Don't remember exactly.

I would also try it on a ramp in the parking tomorrow.

PS: The avatar pic is smashing. Deep azure blue sky! Perfect!

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by SDP

Anushman, fantastic report about the AWD in Ladakh!

HHC and HDC are handy features in that kinds of terrain.
When you get a chance can you please check if the HDC works while climbing up a slope. Yes, I know it sounds stupid, but I faintly remember when I took the first TD, the sales guy did put the car in HDC mode while taking a upward slope. He pressed the buttons too many times to get the car in that mode, so not very sure about it. Or may be he showed me that even without the accelerator input, there is enough torque to climb. It was a long time back. Don't remember exactly.

HDC helps with braking while going downhill to maintain a steady smooth defined speed. Going uphill brakes are not required, here on low Altitude, XUV with Anti Stall feature and peppy low end can climb inclines without any accelerator input. I have tried this at the time of climbing out from the basements, this works in both first and second gears.

On High Altitude of above 4000 metres, all the pep close to idle range is lost, try doing this in the Himalayas and the Chetaah will stall.

[suman]

Wow, another Leh trip in another car! You're becoming more of a Leh veteran than some of our "regulars" Anshuman! Great report, which car is it going to be for 2014 ?

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by suman

Wow, another Leh trip in another car! You're becoming more of a Leh veteran than some of our "regulars" Anshuman! Great report, which car is it going to be for 2014 ?

Unless i win a lottery or i manage to collect enough spare cash to buy myself a Landcruiser LC200, I will stick to the cars i have in my Garage for a long time.

2014 i might not visit Ladakh again, Maybe Bhutan or some other place. Vehicle of choice will be XUV-500, or maybe Rexton MT.

[debuda]

A wonderful report – crisp and packed with every relevant bit of information that a SUV buff would be interested in. Beautiful pictures too. Thanks for sharing.

Personally, your report makes me feel a bit unhappy about not having gone in for the AWD version myself. Having spent 13 lakhs for my W6 just 9 months ago I wouldn’t think of changing it in a hurry. I try to get solace by telling myself that with my kind of driving (geriatric) I’d rarely require 4x4 or AWD. But the still-young-at-heart driving enthusiast deep inside me refuses to get consoled!

It’s reassuring to learn that you too experienced louder turbo whine at high altitude. I was a bit alarmed by that noise in my XUV during my trip to Ladakh a couple of months ago.

One question -- did you fix the puncture yourself by using a repair kit or did you use the spare wheel?

[anandpadhye]

Good to read about XUV's AWD at that altitude. Tucson has a very similar clutch based AWD but honestly I could not make out when it came into picture (may be it's so smart that the driver and passengers do not notice, like you are saying, then I will take it ).

But frankly wherever Tucson went, all kinds of 2WD vehicles (Innovas, Xylos, etc) also went. And Everyone was smoking like hell when they had to stop and start on the inclines. How was your smoke situation?

Even I prefer not to burn the clutch, so throughout the trip, I tried to find the best possible compromise between revving high and letting the clutch go as fast as possible, but still I HAD to burn the clutch, there was no way out. Your XUV is MT, right? So how does Hill Hold work without burning the clutch? Or is it the case that instead of the driver, the ECU burns the clutch so the sin is just transferred?

Cheers!

[.anshuman]

Originally Posted by debuda

One question -- did you fix the puncture yourself by using a repair kit or did you use the spare wheel?

I used the Puncture repair kit, the pebble looked large enough before removal, but the puncture was not that big and puncture was plugged with some effort.

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

Good to read about XUV's AWD at that altitude. Tucson has a very similar clutch based AWD but honestly I could not make out when it came into picture (may be it's so smart that the driver and passengers do not notice, like you are saying, then I will take it ).

XUV uses a newer system, the exact same unit as the one used in Hyundai Santa-Fe. The system is supplied by Borg Warner.

But frankly wherever Tucson went, all kinds of 2WD vehicles (Innovas, Xylos, etc) also went. And Everyone was smoking like hell when they had to stop and start on the inclines. How was your smoke situation?

With some effort and wheel spin all cars manage, the difference with a 4wd is less amount of abuse the vehicle has to take. My XUV was smoking a bit under heavy acceleration but it was not alarmingly high, all Diesel cars smoke due to lack of Oxyzen.

Even I prefer not to burn the clutch, so throughout the trip, I tried to find the best possible compromise between revving high and letting the clutch go as fast as possible, but still I HAD to burn the clutch, there was no way out. Your XUV is MT, right? So how does Hill Hold work without burning the clutch? Or is it the case that instead of the driver, the ECU burns the clutch so the sin is just transferred?

Hill Hold Control does not use clutch to hold the car, it uses the Brakes through ABS system.

[anandpadhye]

Originally Posted by .anshuman

I used the Puncture repair kit, the pebble looked large enough before removal, but the puncture was not that big and puncture was plugged with some effort.


XUV uses a newer system, the exact same unit as the one used in Hyundai Santa-Fe. The system is supplied by Borg Warner.


With some effort and wheel spin all cars manage, the difference with a 4wd is less amount of abuse the vehicle has to take. My XUV was smoking a bit under heavy acceleration but it was not alarmingly high, all Diesel cars smoke due to lack of Oxyzen.



Hill Hold Control does not use clutch to hold the car, it uses the Brakes through ABS system.

Tucson also uses Borg Warner, but of course it must be older.
So if Hill Hold only plays with the brakes, what about the need to rev and slip the clutch? It has to be done by the driver?

[triedeverything]

Nice report Anushman. Great insights. And the first thing I'm going to add are those hellas
Question for you. I currently drive a Scorpio 2WD. I've never felt the need for a 4WD and it's taken me everywhere I needed to go. So the question is do I really need an AWD? You've mentioned that the AWD is much better to drive. Is the difference that apparent on regular roads? Would appreciate it if you could explain the difference or maybe point me to a place where you've already explained it