[archerdyal]

I came on to this forum as a newbie myself to cars and and lived here as an enthusiast and would love to continue to do so without indirect personal attacks. So please let us all share our learnings rather than picking on flaws all the time. This is a place where we come together to form a community not as a nitpicking group. So please let us all enjoy our stay here.[/quote]


Cheerz Psycho Gr8 going

[mclaren1885]

The only point I am trying to make is that people should not claim things which are not entirely true (in this case people vouching for OPTIMUM RELIABILITY without knowing complete details). Thanks for clearing up the matter, didn't intend to attack you or your car but just wanted to get a few doubts with memo cleared out rather than misleading people.

PS: My post 119 was directed at Memo, not you.

Since we are on the topic of reliability could someone be kind enough to tell me what would "RELIABILITY" be defined as, in terms of modified cars? Would it mean no problems at all or does reliability factor also overlook some particular problems? If so which? Atleast that way some customers like myself will be better prepared on what to look out for.

[KS Motorsport]

Originally Posted by DocG

about the dyno...i haven't confirmed this...but Karan's dyno here in Mumbai can handle only around 250hp?!? that's what I was told, can someone please confirm...

Even if my dyno can handle on 250hp,in the past 4 months,the highest HP reading on the dyno was 175hp........so i dont think i would have to upgrade it for a while.
But in truth,my dyno can do over 1200hp(its rated that high from the manuft)
I am very sure that even Mr Singhania`s skyline will not be able to over kill my dyno.From what I have seen of that car,I think it will be not more than 800 on wheels.I am waiting to see it on the rollers.

Thanks
Karan

[nitrous]

Correct me if Im wrong,KS.
I believe U have a two-wheel dyno. The R33 skyline being an AWD can't be dyno'd at urs,isn't it?

[Psycho]

The only point I am trying to make is that people should not claim things which are not entirely true (in this case people vouching for OPTIMUM RELIABILITY without knowing complete details). Thanks for clearing up the matter, didn't intend to attack you or your car but just wanted to get a few doubts with memo cleared out rather than misleading people.

When you say optimum reliability realise it is a term that can only be defined by you as per me the car has performed well within expectations hence has been reliable. Therefore reliability for a modded car is best defined by each individual independently. (Wouldnt we all wish for the hero honda tag line "Fill it, Shut it, Forget it.")

Even when an athelete pushes his body more than what he normally should he too would face problems; are factory cars reliable ? No thats why you have the term warranty. Why : mechanicals are prone to failures. And modded rides more so.

Just imagaine the most reliable rides today are the commercial airliners that are checked at the end of each hop for even minor malfunctions and are grounded as soon as they are found and rectified cars like the mclaren f1 and rolls etc have remote logging and diagnostics specifically for such situations.

So to define reliability to my terms would be: It performs as expected + Pre empt failure areas and try to get beeter equipment to replace it as a precautionay measure + Plus allows me to identify major problem areas before they come out as show stoppers + extra special care to see if anything is about to fail --- low water / knocking on fuel / oils leaking - burning up etc. Hence modding is as good as an MIS (Management Information System) problem that catches bottlenecks (problems / Achilles Heel) before they impact you. But this is again dependent on the limits that needs to be pushed vs. the expenses that are made, leading to compromises and areas of failures; it is a never ending cycle.

Another major point reliability can only be done for fixed operational conditions which can like almost never be true for any car on the road as the conditions change rapidly and you need to constantly keep monitoring the changes like oil temp, water temp, afr, knocks etc. Now also remeber there are other conditions that suddenly go beyond your control like fan belts / clutches / timing belts / bearings / wrong octance (adultrated fuel) / fuses / electricals all you can do is that you manage to keep going throught the checklist for all of them constantly in your mind each morning.

No engine / mechanical can be opterated on the extreme thresholds for too long this will only accelerate rapid deterioration of the mechanicals across the car. Which is why track cars and race cars are built to perform in fixed conditions / driver requirements and for a fixed duration of time. Whereas street cars can not comply to those requirements and still be 100% fail proof and any given cost.

Just take the same example of the aircraft : imagine you leaving the car back wiith the mech each time you drive it to look for issue areas. (Imagine the cost)

Whereas I did come to one conclusion that one needs to understand mechanicals / car in depth to be able to explain to a mech as to what the problem seems to be so that he can help diagnose immediately. E.g. loss in power is not a good defn but loss in power after 50kmph, overheating and knocking would be so much better for a mech to catch a fault.

PS:
To err is human is a factor a lot of people tend to overlook, there can be situations which could have been overlooked but this then becomes the responsibility of the driver to make sure that it is well rectified before it is taken out.

[KS Motorsport]

Originally Posted by nitrous

Correct me if Im wrong,KS.
I believe U have a two-wheel dyno. The R33 skyline being an AWD can't be dyno'd at urs,isn't it?

Nitrous,Yes I have a 2WD dyno,but GS`s skyline is a RWD.So will be able to run it.

[mclaren1885]

To cut a long story short you mean to say that the word "Reliability" differs from person to person and what budget limitations he may have? Because to some people blown headgaskets will hardly make a difference and they would still call their ride reliable (just generalizing and not trying to point at anyone) because they can afford to spend that bit more.

What I could figure from this view is that there is no proper definition for "RELIABILITY". Or is this only in our country where professionalism is not as high as that compared to other countries? Do tuners or tuning companies abroad too have such a vague description to reliability of tuned cars as well?

Originally Posted by Psycho

but this then becomes the responsibility of the driver to make sure that it is well rectified before it is taken out.

Well that might be the view of someone who works on cars. But my view as a owner and driver of a modded car would be that some issues crop up a little later than expected or after the delivery of a car has been taken. And if something were to happen at this stage, whose to be blamed? At times it might really not be the fault of the owner at all. But at the end of it he has to bear the brunt if his tuner is not willing to co-operate.

[ported_head]

Let's keep this thread on track, please. This thread is not for your personal feuds, you have already received server space for the same, before.

[mclaren1885]

Still awaiting for that day when a tuner in India would give a turbo build along with warranty (on certain parts). Now, when such a day will see light is yet to be seen.

Originally Posted by ported head

Let's keep this thread on track, please. This thread is not for your personal feuds, you have already received server space for the same, before.

I don't intend to take this thread in any direction other than knowing what a customer should expect when he goes in for a turbo for his car.

As for the title of the thread, the answer is very simple. Tata, Maruti, Fiat, GM, Ferrari,
Lambo and all those who are supplying factory turbos. Because right now I don't think there is any tuner in India who has ran a turbo for more than 2-3 yrs on multiple cars and achieved the desirable results. Be it race dominance or reliability.

[speedzak]

Ok, so according to your final conclusion it seems as a country in whole, we have failed to atleast have 1 tuner/mechanic who is capable of assembling a Turbo setup which is good enough to win races or can be called reliable.
I think that's a bit way too pessimistic.

[pjbiju]

Just a question related to engine (and other major) modifications. Are all these modifications legal? I mean the CMVR certification for a particular car model is issued after a lot of extensive testing and certification of the car as a whole and also the different components/aggregates. Making any major modification that affects the basic characteristics of the car/engine will make that certificate invalid, right?

[v1p3r]

Originally Posted by pjbiju

Just a question related to engine (and other major) modifications. Are all these modifications legal?

In a word, no.

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Tata, Maruti, Fiat, GM, Ferrari,
Lambo and all those who are supplying factory turbos.

My chequebook is ready. Just point me to the car!

[R32_GTR]

For all those who are so obsessed with reliability...consider upgrading a factory turbocharged vehicle..(like a SKODA RS or an EVO) that has the required potential and provisions, rather than doing something that YOU already know will pose problems..

The cost of TCing a lancer or a city adds up to the cost of new RS (approximately) - If the above mentioned cars seem out of your budget to begin with, dont bother..and save up for something better to come your way.

OR, just stick to changing plugs, airfilters, wires and some good tyres..and not worry about your "modded" ride breaking down. (even exhaust mods can be avoided)

Like they say - "you can have your cake and eat it too"

Atleast this can be said for ALL tuners in India - in terms of reliability, PERIOD!! with no exceptions.. And most people owing something on these lines have always had to see their tuners more than they have had to see their own doctors for reasons that need not be stressed upon..

The country has not reached that stage just yet where the " fill it, shut it, forget it" situation is feasible...FACE IT..OR DEAL WITH THE RELIABILITY ISSUES.

If it was up to me...i would dissuade a lot of people from getting / installing a turbo to most cars in our market for obvious reasons..

P.S - For all those who have plenty time and money to kill (face it - these things ain't cheap - atleast not in the beginning till the hidden cost show up or its time for adding more stuff to an already dysfunctional system) ..and if you have a day job..because one even needs to invest a lot of time..and invite more unwanted hassles..by all means..get a turbo..

The reason i recommended AR motosports was - IMO - they are the only ones that call a spade a spade and do not promise you the world before starting on your car..they charge you a premium, but they deliver what they say, when they say it.

[memo45_m]

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

The only point I am trying to make is that people should not claim things which are not entirely true (in this case people vouching for OPTIMUM RELIABILITY without knowing complete details). Thanks for clearing up the matter, didn't intend to attack you or your car but just wanted to get a few doubts with memo cleared out rather than misleading people.

PS: My post 119 was directed at Memo, not you.

Since we are on the topic of reliability could someone be kind enough to tell me what would "RELIABILITY" be defined as, in terms of modified cars? Would it mean no problems at all or does reliability factor also overlook some particular problems? If so which? Atleast that way some customers like myself will be better prepared on what to look out for.

I have realised that there's no arguing with you. You are always right.

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

Tata, Maruti, Fiat, GM, Ferrari,
Lambo and all those who are supplying factory turbos.

Even my chequebook is ready


Well at the end of all, every manufacturer/aftermarket manufacturer has his or her conditions/clause on the kind of warranties the provide, so please look up to that even if you go for branded products.....

[GTO]

OR, just stick to changing plugs, airfilters, wires and some good tyres..and not worry about your "modded" ride breaking down. (even exhaust mods can be avoided)

I can proudly state that I fit in right here!! I have simply no time during the week to spend on fixing an unreliable modded car, or to cope with the time loss of an unreliable car breaking down on me. I work 6 full days a week while sundays are only for the family, so.....

I think this is pretty much the situation with most people as they would grow older and carry more responsibility. If I was 20, I'd probably get an after-market turbo and then spend several afternoons at my tuners shop to set things right or fine-tuning the machine, over a never ending supply of "cutting" chai and Marlboro's. But I am a decade past 20.

In addition, there are plenty of products that suit my need and still deliver the power. Example : I just have to bolt on a petes box to by C220 and get like what....20 BHP extra? Thats a pretty respectable gain, you'd agree, and one which retains the all-too-important-to-me reliability. Even a car like the Skoda RS has huge appeal to me. Its just darn quick out of the box and just as reliable as any other stock machine!

That said, it all depends on where your level of satisfaction lies. I am just as happy with my mildly modded Vtec as Jitu is with his monster Vtec. At the end of the day, thats what counts, doesnt it?