Team-BHP > Team-BHP Advice > On modifying a car


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 17th July 2018, 14:12   #4876
Distinguished - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 3,107
Thanked: 5,098 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by hserus View Post
I've just bought the Amsoil 5w40 Turbo Truck for my Scorpio - it is rated API CK4, which is the most recent spec.

Their 5w30 is available in Signature and I'll try it out for my Fiesta when its next oil change comes due.
That's a good diesel specific oil. I don't recommend using petrol engine oils for diesels as they rarely meet current diesel engine oil API specs.

Amsoil Signature 5W-30 is out of stock and hopefully it should be available before the end of the year when my car goes for its annual service.

Quote:
Originally Posted by humyum View Post
Hi Guys, need advice on buying a good 15W40 Diesel engine oil for my Swift Diesel which has run 1 lakh 58 thousand km till now
I'd recommend not using synthetic with any engine that has done over 70-80K kms. The additives will clean out sludge & deposits making you feel the engine is noisier or rough when the oil has actually just done its job. Stick to good quality mineral or at best semi synthetic.
R2D2 is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 17th July 2018, 14:29   #4877
Senior - BHPian
 
hserus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 4,253
Thanked: 7,671 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
That's a good diesel specific oil. I don't recommend using petrol engine oils for diesels as they rarely meet current diesel engine oil API specs.

Amsoil Signature 5W-30 is out of stock and hopefully it should be available before the end of the year when my car goes for its annual service.
Seems to be in stock in quart cans (946 ml) rather than gallon cans (3.7 litres)

Signature Series 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil https://www.amazon.in/dp/B004Q0W03K/..._c-AtBb1W5GXMZ
hserus is offline  
Old 17th July 2018, 16:05   #4878
Distinguished - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 3,107
Thanked: 5,098 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by hserus View Post
Seems to be in stock in quart cans (946 ml) rather than gallon cans (3.7 litres)
Yep, I had checked it out but they only permit 3 at a time while I need 5. Prefer to buy a 4 qt + 1 qt can anyway. Will wait as the car's service is due only in the Nov-Dec time frame.
R2D2 is offline  
Old 17th July 2018, 16:07   #4879
Senior - BHPian
 
hserus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 4,253
Thanked: 7,671 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
Yep, I had checked it out but they only permit 3 at a time while I need 5. Prefer to buy a 4 qt + 1 qt can anyway. Will wait as the car's service is due only in the Nov-Dec time frame.
You can buy 3 in one order and then 2 in the next order. Or at worst wait a day and buy two more.

The cost difference is not too much. And yes stocks should update themselves by the end of the year.
hserus is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 17th July 2018, 19:03   #4880
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: India
Posts: 5,411
Thanked: 7,111 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

In my Crysta 2.8 I was using Mobile DelvacMX 15W40 CI4+ diesel engine oil since the last 6000Kms which I put in right after the 30000Km servicing. I settled for Delvac MX since I didn't get Rimula R4 which was my first choice.

Enigne was sounding gruff since last 1000Km or so and the oil looked black when I pulled the dipstick. So today got the oil drained at FNG the Delvac MX after 6000Kms and the engine was sounding gruff. Found the oil to be charcoal black in colour when drained and I think 5000 to 6000KM is tops for this oil. I used the same oil this time since I had another 7.5L can of Delvac MX remaining with me, and put a new genuine filter also. Now the engine is sounding nice and smooth like like it usually does on new oil. I will be shifting to Motul Synthetic (already in stock) after another 5000Kms, didn't want to waste the Delvac MX.

I noticed there is NO oil consumption, and the level remains between higher and lower mark at the middle. Just mentioning this point since my ex Polo GT TDI did consume oil and needed an in between top up, which is the norm as far as VW's go.

Last edited by Sankar : 17th July 2018 at 19:09.
Sankar is offline  
Old 17th July 2018, 20:16   #4881
Senior - BHPian
 
hserus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 4,253
Thanked: 7,671 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sankar View Post
Enigne was sounding gruff since last 1000Km or so and the oil looked black when I pulled the dipstick.
...
I noticed there is NO oil consumption, and the level remains between higher and lower mark at the middle.
Yeah - I filled Shell 5W40 in my Scorpio last time (on an impulse and because it IS a good oil - high quality, but API SN/CF only, not even CI rated). Relative Diesel newbie who suddenly picked up 2 Diesel vehicles - Fiesta and Scorpio - over the past year.

So, in my Scorpio, the 5W40 Shell oil has done nearly 8000 (71 km short of the 8k mark) km so far, and the oil is starting to look quite black, but "feels" all right rather than thin, and the oil level has not come down.

I believe Diesel engine oils do get black over time / use, and I also hear that just feeling the oil with your fingers isn't a reliable indicator. And when it comes to gruff noises from the engine, well it is a Scorpio.

So - I'm wondering whether to give it a couple more thousand km before I change to Amsoil, or change it ASAP.

Last edited by hserus : 17th July 2018 at 20:43.
hserus is offline  
Old 17th July 2018, 21:45   #4882
Awaiting Email Confirmation
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: India
Posts: 5,411
Thanked: 7,111 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by hserus View Post
Yeah - I filled Shell 5W40 in my Scorpio last time (on an impulse and because it IS a good oil - high quality, but API SN/CF only, not even CI rated). Relative Diesel newbie who suddenly picked up 2 Diesel vehicles - Fiesta and Scorpio - over the past year.

So, in my Scorpio, the 5W40 Shell oil has done nearly 8000 (71 km short of the 8k mark) km so far, and the oil is starting to look quite black, but "feels" all right rather than thin, and the oil level has not come down.
Shell Helix Ultra is good, I have used it in the past in other Diesels with good results, but not in this engine. If I didn't get Motul Xcess or Xmax i would have bought Helix Ultra, can't go wrong with helix ultra it is a good fallback option. I stay away from non synthetic Mobil but this time had to buy two buckets of 7.5L each. Over time I have come to like only two synthetics in Diesel engines, Motul Xcess and Helix Ultra in this order.
Sankar is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 17th July 2018, 22:11   #4883
BHPian
 
digitalnirvana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: pale blue dot
Posts: 362
Thanked: 1,375 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I have purchased the STP engine oil flush from https://www.amazon.in/gp/product/B0095KKXB2 today, mainly because it is available at a discounted price of Rs322. My car is a pre owned Zen Estilo that is now 10.5 years old. In the last 5 years that it's been with us, oil changes have been done at FNG on time, and it averages around 20km of travel daily.

I have never used an engine flush before, and now having second thoughts. Advice would be appreciated. Also, would a single 450ml bottle suffice or do I need to buy one more?
digitalnirvana is offline  
Old 17th July 2018, 22:19   #4884
Senior - BHPian
 
hserus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 4,253
Thanked: 7,671 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

50 ml per litre of engine oil is the usual metric. So about 150 ml for what, a 3 liter oil sump in the Estilo?

Pour roughly a third of this bottle, mixed with some cheap engine oil, into your oil sump and run the engine in idle for ten to fifteen minutes before draining the old oil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalnirvana View Post
I have purchased the STP engine oil flush from https://www.amazon.in/gp/product/B0095KKXB2 today, mainly because it is available at a discounted price of Rs322. My car is a pre owned Zen Estilo that is now 10.5 years old. In the last 5 years that it's been with us, oil changes have been done at FNG on time, and it averages around 20km of travel daily.

I have never used an engine flush before, and now having second thoughts. Advice would be appreciated. Also, would a single 450ml bottle suffice or do I need to buy one more?
hserus is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 17th July 2018, 22:58   #4885
Distinguished - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 3,107
Thanked: 5,098 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalnirvana View Post
I have never used an engine flush before, and now having second thoughts. Advice would be appreciated. Also, would a single 450ml bottle suffice or do I need to buy one more?
My advice? Please don't use the flush in an old car it will only create problems. If you really want to clean out any expected sludge use decent quality mineral engine oil for e.g Shell Helix HX5 run it for about 500-1000 km. Then drain and refill with better quality semi synthetic for e.g. Shell Helix HX7.

Just substitute my recommendations of Shell oils with similar products of your choice.
R2D2 is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 17th July 2018, 23:34   #4886
Senior - BHPian
 
hserus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 4,253
Thanked: 7,671 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
My advice? Please don't use the flush in an old car it will only create problems.
It only shows up existing problems such as leaky seals that were masked by all the sludge.

So if you suspect your seals are rotten and brittle then the sludge will of course kill your performance but leave you with a still running car. On the other hand the seals especially for an older Maruti are fairly cheap.

So using a flush might not be all that bad an idea if you’re prepared to spend a few thousand more in parts and labour, the car will feel like new if a sufficiently large volume of sludge is flushed out, necessary seals and gaskets replaced and a good engine oil filled.

https://blog.amsoil.com/is-an-engine-flush-good-or-bad/
hserus is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 18th July 2018, 10:01   #4887
Distinguished - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 3,107
Thanked: 5,098 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by hserus View Post
So using a flush might not be all that bad an idea if you’re prepared to spend a few thousand more in parts and labour, the car will feel like new if a sufficiently large volume of sludge is flushed out, necessary seals and gaskets replaced and a good engine oil filled.
True but does one want all the inconvenience and expense of replacing oil seals? That's why I don't recommend flushes. Better to use good mineral oil as a flush, change it well before time repeating as many times as required instead of brute forcing the muck out of the engine with a flush.

IMO if one uses good quality engine oil and changes it at or before recommended intervals the engine will accumulate very little sludge over even lakhs of kms.
R2D2 is offline   (1) Thanks
Old 18th July 2018, 10:09   #4888
Senior - BHPian
 
hserus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Chennai
Posts: 4,253
Thanked: 7,671 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
True but does one want all the inconvenience and expense of replacing oil seals? That's why I don't recommend flushes. Better to use good mineral oil as a flush, change it well before time repeating as many times as required instead of brute forcing the muck out of the engine with a flush.

IMO if one uses good quality engine oil and changes it at or before recommended intervals the engine will accumulate very little sludge over even lakhs of kms.
What usually ends up happening is -

1. Junk quality petrol (or worse, diesel)

2. Engine oil changes - especially early ones - just skipped by ASS employees

3. Air filters left uncleaned / replaced only every 20k km in manufacturer specified service intervals - when they're a black and ugly mess well before 10k kilometers are covered. I prefer to get the air filter cleaned with compressed air every 5k km and replaced every 10k km, whatever the manufacturer says. Ditto the cabin AC filter. As an example - http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/offici...ml#post4335889

4. Engine oil replacement intervals from the manufacturers themselves being overly optimistic (Scorpio - fill mineral 15w40 and set a 20k km interval, VW and Fiat have 15k oil changes etc).

5. City driving - short drives often with half clutch, in thick traffic. Qualifies as a severe driving condition especially for diesels, when the average ride is under 10 miles.

So like it or not, unless you're super careful (filling only at known pumps, religiously changing air filters and oil at intervals your manufacturer may not agree with, using better grades of oil than OEM recommendation, regular highway trips ..) - and even then - you'll end up with a ton of sludge.

Maybe less sludge than if points 1 to 5 are in play, which are essentially how the dealership gets to offer Injector and EGR cleaning as an addon service on a much more regular basis .. but still significant amounts.

One alternative would be to use a much smaller amount of engine flush (say 15-20 ml per liter of oil rather than 50 ml per liter) if your concern is that the engine is so old that flushing will show up dud seals.

Last edited by hserus : 18th July 2018 at 10:16.
hserus is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 18th July 2018, 17:04   #4889
Distinguished - BHPian
 
R2D2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pune
Posts: 3,107
Thanked: 5,098 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

Quote:
Originally Posted by hserus View Post
What usually ends up happening is -

2. Engine oil changes - especially early ones - just skipped by ASS employees
I once changed my cars' engine oil in as low an interval as 2000 km only because I had done very low running during the years courtesy my travels. No compromises there.

Quote:
I prefer to get the air filter cleaned with compressed air every 5k km and replaced every 10k km, whatever the manufacturer says. Ditto the cabin AC filter.
Ditto here. I change the air filter every 10K kms while recommended is 40K. Better to do that than spend fancy amounts on a K&N.

Quote:
4. Engine oil replacement intervals from the manufacturers themselves being overly optimistic (Scorpio - fill mineral 15w40 and set a 20k km interval, VW and Fiat have 15k oil changes etc).
Thing is, most customers like extended drain intervals and the manufacturers are under pressure to comply with environmental regulations thus providing long drain intervals. It is only we enthusiasts that are so particular about our cars. Most owners groan when it comes to spending on the car's maintenance.

Quote:
..using better grades of oil than OEM recommendation, regular highway trips ..) - and even then - you'll end up with a ton of sludge.
Sludge is a by product of combustion when the engine burns minute amounts of oil and the smoke condenses in cooler parts of the engine mainly the cams and oil sump. Better oil resists burning and hence lower sludge. Plus the oil itself, especially synthetic, has plenty of additives to clean up the engine.

If one is really worried just take off the cam cover or those more determined can remove the sump to determine the extent of sludge accumulation.

To minimise this sludge problem and to enhance longevity I recommend:

a) Use the best possible engine oil in the grade and spec recommended by the manufacturer. Thinner oil burns and forms sludge more easily in high temperatures than thicker lubes.
b) Stick or exceed drain intervals.
c) Use good quality fuel from known petrol stations.
d) Last but not the least always use a good oil filter either OEM or from a well reputed aftermarket manufacturer like Wix, Puralator, Mobil 1, Denso etc.

This is easier said than done over years of ownership of a car but those who are really concerned would do it. For e.g yours truly. My Altis' 1ZZ-FE engine is/was reputed to be sludge prone and I just change oil frequently even in as less as 3000-5000 km using what are arguably some of the best synthetic oils available in India. That should minimise sludge formation.

Quote:
One alternative would be to use a much smaller amount of engine flush (say 15-20 ml per liter of oil rather than 50 ml per liter) if your concern is that the engine is so old that flushing will show up dud seals.
Suresh, I believe if one HAS to use a flush stick to the dilution ratio recommended by the flush manufacturer otherwise it may be less than effective.

Last edited by R2D2 : 18th July 2018 at 17:07.
R2D2 is offline   (2) Thanks
Old 18th July 2018, 22:04   #4890
BHPian
 
Parth46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 368
Thanked: 511 Times
Default Re: ARTICLE: Synthetic oil vs Mineral oil

I'm slightly confused about which synthetic oil to use in my 4th gen iVTEC Honda City, which has done only 21K kms till date.

I'm a Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 fan, having used it in my petrol Grand i10, and the level of difference it made to the overall smoothness and revv happy nature of that 1.2 kappa had to be experienced!

SCENARIO 1:
I want to go down the same path and use the same oil in my City petrol, the only thing I'm unsure of is the belief that a 40 weight oil doesn't sit very well with Honda petrols, and it might hurt fuel economy, and more importantly, the overall revv happy nature of the car might get impacted. Also, that a 5W30 weight oil is the best for a petrol Honda. Honda themselves recommend and use a 0W20 oil currently for the City, and even though claim it's fully synthetic, the price and overall quality of the oil makes me believe it's a semi synth at best.

SCENARIO 2:
Keeping the above pointer in mind, and having read a lot on these threads and overall about Liqui Moly, I want to try out the 5W-30 molygen. I spoke to Mr Khais of LandRover labs, and he agreed that while not fully synthetic, the 5W30 would be a good choice for the City, and many customers have been using it without issues. My only concern is, it doesn't seem to be fully synthetic., and is marketed as "based on synthetic technology".

My dilemma - whether to go with the more easily available, and highly proven SHU 5W40, or go with the LM 5W30, all options considered?

Can the oil gurus please advise?

My main requirements are the benefits of a revv happy and smooth, vibration free engine, with not a major hit to fuel economy.

Cheers!

Last edited by Parth46 : 18th July 2018 at 22:07.
Parth46 is offline  
Reply

Most Viewed
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks